Its raining mea culpa in liberty land.

[eleganz]

In the last day there have been many :

"Oops I was wrong, Rand proved himself"

"Rand did better because he became more libertarian and didn't appease the establishment"

"The campaign is being run much better now"

"Campaign finally knows what they're doing"

"Rand finally did something about his low poll numbers"

"I admit I was wrong about Rand"

yada yada yada


The campaign didn't do anything and Rand didn't change, he has always been the same. The only ones changing are those that RAN when the town was attacked and RAN BACK when the alcohol flowed.

You're changing...not Rand, its only because of the timing during the debate and certain favorable conditions that allowed him to differentiate himself. Every campaign walks in with certain strategies, some get the opportunity to say what they want and get the reaction they want and some don't. It doesn't mean their campaigns are bad or don't know what they are doing. Rand or his campaign didn't just turn on a switch from establishment pussy to libertarian boss (like many appear to believe).

So anyway, today is a good day for the liberty movement. Everyone will cheerlead and be happy and give a ton of +reps, pat each other on the back, share articles and donate but what happens the next time if the town wall goes down? Will you run or will you stand?

 

[ds21089]

I never doubted Rand for a second, but you have to admit his presentation style has changed. He stated in the email prior to the debate he was going to be more bold and that's exactly what he did. I dont know if it was entirely a presentation vs simply having more time, but whatever it was certainly resonated better than the previous debates.

 

[phill4paul]

Whateva.

 

[CPUd]

Asked about his campaign, and whether it could be improved, he said: “I give the same speech I gave four years ago, with a little bit of variety. But I’m not a believer that really we’re doing anything wrong or made a misstep.

“All the stories that say: ‘Oh, his campaign sucks, that’s why he’s doing poorly’ … not really. It has nothing to do with my campaign. It has nothing to do with me, really. It may mean people are liking the more bombastic message, but that’s just not me.

“I’m giving the same message as when I was higher in the polls.”

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/nov/09/rand-paul-polls-donald-trump-ben-carson

 

[William Tell]

Basically Ron Paul supporters are as fickle and silly as mainstream voters, if not more so.

 

[eleganz]

Whateva.

I appear to have rubbed some the wrong way. Its ok thats what I meant to do.

 

[jurgs01]

I forgive everyone. Now, let's win this thing!

 

[fcreature]

Rand got (relatively) an equal amount of time in this debate. Much of that was his doing, yes, but that is ultimately why he shined. Can't blame the guy for not having moments when he has a total of 3 minutes of speaking time in a debate.

 

[Anti Federalist]

I understand he did well.

I did not see the debate.

I'll start cheering when he starts polling better than 2 to 5 percent.

 

[TheNewYorker]

I understand he did well.

I did not see the debate.

I'll start cheering when he starts polling better than 2 to 5 percent.

Unless the polls are completely rigged, Rand should be going close to double digits soon.

 

[Feeding the Abscess]

In the last day there have been many :

"Oops I was wrong, Rand proved himself"

"Rand did better because he became more libertarian and didn't appease the establishment"

"The campaign is being run much better now"

"Campaign finally knows what they're doing"

"Rand finally did something about his low poll numbers"

"I admit I was wrong about Rand"

yada yada yada


The campaign didn't do anything and Rand didn't change, he has always been the same. The only ones changing are those that RAN when the town was attacked and RAN BACK when the alcohol flowed.

You're changing...not Rand, its only because of the timing during the debate and certain favorable conditions that allowed him to differentiate himself. Every campaign walks in with certain strategies, some get the opportunity to say what they want and get the reaction they want and some don't. It doesn't mean their campaigns are bad or don't know what they are doing. Rand or his campaign didn't just turn on a switch from establishment pussy to libertarian boss (like many appear to believe).

So anyway, today is a good day for the liberty movement. Everyone will cheerlead and be happy and give a ton of +reps, pat each other on the back, share articles and donate but what happens the next time if the town wall goes down? Will you run or will you stand?

Rather than mentioning arming the Ukranians and Kurds, keeping forces in Afghanistan, enforcing sanctions on Iran and other countries, declaring war on ISIS, restoring the military funds cut by sequestration - and he had plenty of opportunity to do just that last night - he decided to take non-interventionist positions and pointed out the folly in interventionist policies like arming rebel forces, no-fly zones, and ending diplomacy.

It is dishonest to say the latter is no different or not the result of a changed approach from the former.

 

[afwjam]

Bull shit! Your rhetoric is over the top and not beneficial to this movement. We are individuals and can stand where we want, I'm not fighting anything, you can if you want.

In my opinion Rand has finally started talking about the real issue. Yes he has been saying the right things about foreign and domestic policy, but the beast could care less and would continue as long as we participate in the dialectic. We need to look behind the curtain and address the real issue, the beast itself, the Federal Reserve. I know Rand has audit the fed legislation, but he was not using his educational opertunities in this presidential election the way his father was. That has now changed significantly in the past couple weeks. I'm not sure Rand has ever really put the full picture together in a sentence as his father did, but he is a hell of a lot closer.

All the issues foreign and domestic that Rand has been talking about are enabled by the Feds dishonest, unfair and down right evil monetary policy. Arguing about these issues is useless if we do not change our monetary policy and reveal the evil behind it.

Call us cowards all you want, that in itself is a cowardly act and accomplishes nothing, like all fighting. The grass roots will awaken and stand with Rand when Rand strikes the right notes. I would like to believe a large portion of this movement has woken up and moved past the petty rhetoric of the dialectic. Elections are meaningless if we don't address the real evil in this world.

Go watch Ron Paul's final congressional speech again and try and understand what he is saying. Your attacks accomplish nothing, we appeal to a higher power and pray for real peace on earth.

Edit:

 

[eleganz]

I never doubted Rand for a second, but you have to admit his presentation style has changed. He stated in the email prior to the debate he was going to be more bold and that's exactly what he did. I dont know if it was entirely a presentation vs simply having more time, but whatever it was certainly resonated better than the previous debates.

He always says what he's going to do before the debate. His presentation style did not change, he is the same Rand the only difference is the conditions that allowed his style to shine in contrast with others.

Also when he took down Trump, it wasn't with style, he just happened to know something about the TPP that the others didn't know, or didn't think about mentioning.

More time definitely raises your chances of having great conditions for a great moment but more time does not define you doing better or worse.

The type of questions you're asked, the tone and substance of the question as well as how you respond and how others respond to you dictate the type of success you're going to have in how others perceive your response. Theres so many factors that go into what constitutes as a great debate moment but one of them is not, "the campaign changed".

The campaign is constantly changing for better and worse, its called learning. Rand doesn't change, his message stays the same and his persona is the same.

 

[Mr Stealth]

YES I agree. Let's win this now, thanks.

Rand is working hard to influence the discussions being had, and for those who have been following him, they know this is what he has been doing every day for years. Last night, for just a few short moments, the stars aligned in favor of Liberty.

Ron won millions of followers because he was punching the establishment in the face. I'd bet it's the same for Bernie & Trump believers. People aren't just angry about immigration and CEO's and police... they are angry at the failing status quo of our government establishment!

May the stars continue to shine on Rand, so that more people will realize that Liberty is the organic and holistic cure for the affliction of bad government.

 

[georgiaboy]

I understand he did well.

I did not see the debate.

I'll start cheering when he starts polling better than 2 to 5 percent.

6?

somebody had to be the smartass.

 

[Crashland]

Unless the polls are completely rigged, Rand should be going close to double digits soon.

Not sure about double digits, but I am hoping to see at least up to 6-8%

 

[eleganz]

Rather than mentioning arming the Ukranians and Kurds, keeping forces in Afghanistan, enforcing sanctions on Iran and other countries, declaring war on ISIS, restoring the military funds cut by sequestration - and he had plenty of opportunity to do just that last night - he decided to take non-interventionist positions and pointed out the folly in interventionist policies like arming rebel forces, no-fly zones, and ending diplomacy.

It is dishonest to say the latter is no different or not the result of a changed approach from the former.

He says things that differentiates himself from other candidates, that is nothing new, he has been trying to differentiate himself this entire time. The conservative or not conservative moment gave him the condition to show case other areas where he is different. When the exchange escalated, more people were paying attention to what he said. When he embarrassed Trump, nobody really knew what was going on or if he was right but its one of those rare moments where Trump showed weakness in his celebrity armor and the moment a lot of Republicans and media pundits were waiting for.

I know Rand has audit the fed legislation, but he was not using his educational opertunities in this presidential election the way his father was. That has now changed significantly in the past couple weeks. I'm not sure Rand has ever really put the full picture together in a sentence as his father did, but he is a hell of a lot closer.

Look, if you feel guilty then you feel guilty. If you don't, you don't. I really don't care because in the end what I say shouldn't really change the amount of activism you produce for the movement, thats all on you. If you feel like you didn't do anything wrong, what should this thread make any difference?

But what you're saying about Rand not using his "educational opportunities" before two weeks ago and now he is, is not even reasonable.

Rand is not running a Ron Paul 2012 campaign.

 

[Chester Copperpot]

the best thing about huckabee and christie not being in the debate was that Rand got this extra time..

 

[brandon]

The campaign didn't do anything and Rand didn't change, he has always been the same. The only ones changing are those that RAN when the town was attacked and RAN BACK when the alcohol flowed.

I really don't think that's true at all. His strategy of being an establishment moderate failed, so he reverted to the Rand of 2010-2012.

Just earlier this year he was trying to increase defense spending in the Senate. [Source] And last night he was arguing against increasing defense spending.

After I donated last night, someone I really like and respect on this forum sent me a message "welcome back." I'd also extend that message to Rand Paul... welcome back to your roots. I bet it feels good.

 

[afwjam]

Why can't we talk about the federal reserve? I helped Ron Paul win the big island, I still feel pretty good about that, it was never going to help him win the presidency and neither will it for Rand but I was already doing it anyways. I'll probebly make grass roots content for Rand when he inspires me like his father did, dropping real truth bombs. Violence won't change the world, but knowledge and tolerant communication will. Good luck with your fight, it won't help.