It's official. No more Challengers or Chargers. EV golf carts only

[pcosmar]

Remember.. Electricity is dangerous.

 

[acptulsa]

I see Your horrible reality as full of possibilities for liberty...

It's both. I don't think he has a particular problem with electric vehicles. But when the government sets out to limit our mobility by fiat, he does get testy.

 

[pcosmar]

It's both. I don't think he has a particular problem with electric vehicles. But when the government sets out to limit our mobility by fiat, he does get testy.

Me too..and I don't like the subsidies either..Wheat corn or Oil, certainly don't want it electric..

Shouldn't have to be.. nor should everything be Imported,, but they don't let me run things.

hell, didn't Romney sell it all off?

 

[acptulsa]

More so than the Mach-E that is not a Mustang.

 

[CaptUSA]

Me too..and I don't like the subsidies either..Wheat corn or Oil, certainly don't want it electric..

I've done a ton of work at high levels in the electric industry. Right now, I work on energy policy related to electrification initiatives. The amount of subsidy going to electric vehicles is something I've never seen before. I'm sure agriculture is used to this kind of thing, but I'm not. I push back on these things all the time, but the decision-makers look at me like I'm an alien from outer space. They can't even conceive of the concept that things should be left to the market.

Here's an example: In the IIJA signed last year, they have a formula funding program called NEVI (National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure). It's $5 Billion dollars that the states can dole out to charging station owners. That's a LOT of damned chargers! (BTW, public fast charging is a losing proposition financially. They'd have to charge you the equivalent of $14/gal gas in order to turn a profit. So, they'll never make money.) With that many chargers, it also means that any individual charger will be used less (we call that load factor). All the states have submitted their plans and are currently awaiting approval from the feds. This is the equivalent of building a Walgreens every 50 miles along the designated highways - all at once! NEVI funds cover 80% of the build and operation of the stations. As if the $5 Billion wasn't enough, the White House is pressuring utilities to pick up the other 20%. And when I say "utilities", I mean utility ratepayers. So, they didn't get enough of a subsidy from the taxpayer, they want more from the ratepayer. Guess what?? Those are the same people.

I've got more disgusting things to say, but I should probably leave it there, for now.

 

[acptulsa]

..

 

[devil21]

I work with solar panels on and off for my job. Solar absolutely sucks in the late fall and winter months. 7 straight days of overcast skies with the sun low on the horizon on already short daylight days? Forget going anywhere in a solar powered EV or solar powering much of anything reliably without huge fully charged battery capacity. Most of this solar powered this-n-that is just fluff to prepare people for the seriously reduced standard of living coming.

 

[pcosmar]

I work with solar panels on and off for my job. Solar absolutely sucks in the late fall and winter months. 7 straight days of overcast skies with the sun low on the horizon on already short daylight days? Forget going anywhere in a solar powered EV or solar powering much of anything reliably without huge fully charged battery capacity. Most of this solar powered this-n-that is just fluff to prepare people for the seriously reduced standard of living coming.

Solar does depend on Latitude. Works here,, but not so well on the Farm.. I had enough Wind to power a Factory,, but the Govt was in the way.

a steady Creek is power.. Steady Prevailing Winds... all options to become your own Power Producer.

 

[pcosmar]

Most of this solar powered this-n-that is just fluff to prepare people for the seriously reduced standard of living coming.

Tech that has been around since the 50s had never been used for anything but Fluff,, my 59 Caddie had a Photoelectric cell that dimmed my headlights.

we should be advancing,,

 

[Occam's Banana]

It's official. No more Challengers or Chargers. EV golf carts only

Goodbye, Challengers and Chargers. Hello, social credit scores:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ol-diesel-cars-2025-fight-climate-change.html

 

[CCTelander]

+ rep

Whether anyone likes it or not, the modern world exists BECAUSE of hydrocarbons and coal (and I for one love it, and consider it a blessing I thank God for every single morning). Our lives are made better by orders of magnitude because of them, and they have done so in such a manner that hardly anyone is even aware of it.

While I walked away from the O&G industry recently, I am proud to have been a small part of it, and to have played a role in making the world a better place. It is a TRAGEDY that so many people are now literally tearing at the edifice which makes our modern world, with all of it's comforts and conveniences and advancements, a possibility. We have a large segment of our civilization who are actively working to make the world a far more miserable place, and they don't even realize it.

The rank and file rubes and useful idiots at street level don't realize it, but the shakers and movers at the top, the ones making the plans and imposing the mandates most certainly do. Their goal is precisely to "[make] the world a far more miserable place." Well, for US anyway.

 

[tod evans]

This guy is an old school MoPar guy.

 

[pcosmar]

DIY

 

[Bryan]

Recharge Times is the next development hurdle.. and it will improve.

Hyundai seems to be doing well here, 18 minutes of charging gets you 300 miles, that's a good driving-to-break ratio for a road trip.
https://www.greencarreports.com/new...will-offer-18-minute-fast-charging-in-us-spec

 

[Bryan]

the battery pack alone costs Ford $18,000 to build,

$18K for a disposable component. Given the limited lifespan of the batteries, and the rare earth metal issues to build them, batteries have been and continue to be the real impediment to progress.

 

[acptulsa]

$18K for a disposable component. Given the limited lifespan of the batteries, and the rare earth metal issues to build them, batteries have been and continue to be the real impediment to progress.

Ever since the tech was invented. And weight. Don't forget that massive weight.

The '71 Satellite in the vid above gained over a thousand pounds.

 

[CaptUSA]

Hyundai seems to be doing well here, 18 minutes of charging gets you 300 miles, that's a good driving-to-break ratio for a road trip.
https://www.greencarreports.com/new...will-offer-18-minute-fast-charging-in-us-spec

Nope. It'll get you to 80% in 18 minutes so that's 240 miles. Still very impressive. But do you understand what 350kW direct current fast charging costs?! That's one hell of a lot of juice all at once. The infrastructure alone for these 350kW chargers costs a ton! (Even the National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure funds are only targeting 150kW)

I haven't done the math on this example, but at the typical load factor of a 150kW site, the charger owner would have to charge the equivalent of more than $14/gal just to break even on the demand charges associated with that much electric use. And that's not even calculating recouping the initial investment of hundreds of thousands of dollars (some of which gets paid for by the utility rates of other people)! A 350kW site would be in orders of magnitude greater!

If you can increase the load factor, you can bring the costs down by spreading those electric costs over more users. The problem is that in order to do that, you need to run these stations all day! And if you pull up to a station where a car is already sitting, are you really going to wait for them to finish before you start your 18 minute charge?? If the answer is no, then you're not going to have people lined up to keep the charger humming - which means there will be too much down time to make it worth it. In a fleet setting, it could make sense because you could keep cycling your vehicles through, but for public charging, it will NEVER be cost-effective.

EV drivers should charge at home. Period. That's the way to save money. If they need to charge publicly, they should use slow charging at their next stop. If they really need fast charging, they should pay the true costs of that instead of these massive subsidies that are cementing in bad economic business models.

 

[pcosmar]

Ever since the tech was invented. And weight. Don't forget that massive weight.

The '71 Satellite in the vid above gained over a thousand pounds.

Yes it did,,and with better balance.. Still outperforms the original.

(gotta love Torque)

 

[pcosmar]

$18K for a disposable component.

Aprox 10 year lifespan,, $1800 a year..

I expect the price to drop over time,, and recycling companies have already started.

Hemp Graphene will lower price even more,, as Graphene is the expensive component.

 

[A Son of Liberty]

Hyundai seems to be doing well here, 18 minutes of charging gets you 300 miles, that's a good driving-to-break ratio for a road trip.
https://www.greencarreports.com/new...will-offer-18-minute-fast-charging-in-us-spec

I'm nowhere near being interested in an EV. I drive a TON for work - in my previous career I drove from MD to CO/ND/WY/TX on multiple occasions, and now in my new job in just 3 short months I've already driven to NC/WI/IN, and soon will be heading out to MT. I do not f**k around when I drive. I get down the road, and push as many miles behind me as I can in a day. I probably average 8 minutes per stop for gas. My current vehicle makes about 29 MPG, and on a full tank I can get 450-500 miles between stops. I'm not standing around for 18-20 minutes waiting for my car to charge. And I'm sure as hell not driving through WY in February in a vehicle that, if I get stranded on the roadside in a snow storm or an ice storm, will run out of charge in the time it takes me to drive 300 miles.

Given that these vehicle are effectively powered by hydrocarbons and/or coal, only less efficiently than ICE vehicles, the tech - and especially the infrastructure - are going to have to improve dramatically before I plunk down my hard-earned, devalued FRN's for one. And I have no intention of tying myself to an electric infrastructure which seems to be rapidly moving toward "smart-grid" tech with the ability to limit your access to energy. If I have to, I know how to siphon a fuel tank... I don't think anyone has come up with a way to siphon electric.