Is THE REPEAL 16 COLALITION really trying to end taxes calculated from incomes?

[TheCount]

No they win. If you consider 100% returns a win. The frivolous penalty is only applied if your claim is frivolous , and not legitimate. Theirs is legitimate.

So why is it that if I go to the various forums for folks using these sorts of tactics, that I find plenty of posts where people are being penalized for frivolous claims?

 

[tommyrp12]

So why is it that if I go to the various forums for folks using these sorts of tactics, that I find plenty of posts where people are being penalized for frivolous claims?

You are going to the wrong forums I guess. Try these sites look around and come to your own conclusions about them. www.savingtosuitorsclub.net http://iuvdeposit.wordpress.com/ They are both pretty much the same with some twists here and there. I guess the method is progressing.

 

[TheCount]

I went to your first link. At the top in popular topics is this thread:

With this:

 

[tommyrp12]

First pic does not work. But if you read through the thread you will see its development.

Assuming I was looking at the same thread. (1st return redeeming lawful money) Here are the developments of it. They do try to apply it, but nothing ever comes of it. I am waiting to see what happens as well. This is also not the only success story ,you should look through the site.

Michael, I did file both state and federal. I received a State refund In full, I posted that in an previous page on this thread (Picture of the Check). After the State check arrived I received the Friv Pen letter from the FED IRS. I replied to that Friv Pen letter and posted my response also on a previous page on this thread. I have not gotten a response to my response as to the time of writing this post. Were you aware of that or are you speaking to something else? You can see a complete record of what I have done (sent) and received from the IRS in this thread if you read through it.

Update - Still no response since they received my reply on April 8th, 2014

I believe his reply included asking the agent where on the list of frivolous positions is redeeming pursuant to title 12 sec.411 ? I would be surprised to find out following the law is frivolous. Why would they state give him a refund and not the IRS ? I'm pretty sure this will end with him receiving his check.

 

[LibForestPaul]

Ron Paul says ending taxes is certainly a goal but we need to deal with the budget deficit/ debt problem first. Cutting taxes only makes those problems worse. But both government spending and taxes can be greatly streamlined from where they are now.

Not my debt, not my problem.
My problem is only with the jackboot thug pointing a gun at my head demanding my prosperity while the people of this land cheer in adoration of this scum.

 

[TheCount]

I believe his reply included asking the agent where on the list of frivolous positions is redeeming pursuant to title 12 sec.411 ? I would be surprised to find out following the law is frivolous. Why would they state give him a refund and not the IRS ? I'm pretty sure this will end with him receiving his check.

Most of the refunds are automatic/computerized. It's why people are sometimes initially successful with fraudulent returns and get nasty IRS letters later. You have to do something really blatant in order to not get your refund at all.

 

[Danke]

Most of the refunds are automatic/computerized. It's why people are sometimes initially successful with fraudulent returns and get nasty IRS letters later. You have to do something really blatant in order to not get your refund at all.

I have been familiar with David Merrill's work for years. And there are continuing successes. I know of one that has a 7 year track record of everything refunded year after year.

I'm curious, why do you label Returns that actually are returning one's property that is not gained from a Federal privileged as "fraudulent?"

 

[TheCount]

I have been familiar with David Merrill's work for years. And there are continuing successes. I know of one that has a 7 year track record of everything refunded year after year.

Is that person "judgement proof?"

I'm curious, why do you label Returns that actually are returning one's property that is not gained from a Federal privileged as "fraudulent?"

One of the definitions of fraud is intentional misrepresentation. Most of the tax refund schemes I've seen fit that description.

 

[Danke]

Is that person "judgement proof?"

What is "judgement proof?"

One of the definitions of fraud is intentional misrepresentation. Most of the tax refund schemes I've seen fit that description.

Please elaborate. What is the "intentional misrepresentation."

 

[TheCount]

What is "judgement proof?"

Having nothing to take.

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/what-does-judgment-proof-mean.html

Please elaborate. What is the "intentional misrepresentation."

Intentionally misrepresenting your income by using convoluted, nonsensical logic to come to the conclusion that you 'have no income.' Usually something along the lines of:

Only the District of Columbia is the USA, so only DC residents can be taxed.
Only wages paid in gold can be taxed.
Only wages paid by the federal government can be taxed.
The taxes aren't imposed against you, they are imposed against ALL CAPITAL LETTERS YOU, which isn't really you because (ten different reasons).
The USA is really a corporation created by the Vatican, the Queen, and/or reptilians, and that means you don't need to pay taxes because (ten different reasons).

 

[kcchiefs6465]

Having nothing to take.

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/what-does-judgment-proof-mean.html




Intentionally misrepresenting your income by using convoluted, nonsensical logic to come to the conclusion that you 'have no income.' Usually something along the lines of:

Only the District of Columbia is the USA, so only DC residents can be taxed.
Only wages paid in gold can be taxed.
Only wages paid by the federal government can be taxed.
The taxes aren't imposed against you, they are imposed against ALL CAPITAL LETTERS YOU, which isn't really you because (ten different reasons).
The USA is really a corporation created by the Vatican, the Queen, and/or reptilians, and that means you don't need to pay taxes because (ten different reasons).

Perhaps they thought, "This is mine, get a real goddamn job, you leeches" wasn't an option?

 

[TheCount]

Perhaps they thought, "This is mine, get a real goddamn job, you leeches" wasn't an option?

That's completely different. If you believe that tax laws apply to you, but oppose paying taxes for moral or philosophical reasons, I'm 110% on board and in agreement. If you think that tax laws are a vast space alien conspiracy, then we'll have to disagree.

 

[kcchiefs6465]

That's completely different. If you believe that tax laws apply to you, but oppose paying taxes for moral or philosophical reasons, I'm 110% on board and in agreement. If you think that tax laws are a vast space alien conspiracy, then we'll have to disagree.

Hahaha.

My point was more that people lose options. A lot of the stuff is simply a means to avoid their own robbery (and that which isn't, while being ludicrous in my opinion, ultimately works towards the same goal).

To put it simply: I disagree with their justifications but I agree with the underlying principle and hopeful result.

 

[TheCount]

I believe his reply included asking the agent where on the list of frivolous positions is redeeming pursuant to title 12 sec.411 ? I would be surprised to find out following the law is frivolous. Why would they state give him a refund and not the IRS ? I'm pretty sure this will end with him receiving his check.

It's in this part of the list:

This document, including the relevant legal authorities cited, is not intended to provide an exhaustive list of frivolous tax arguments. Merely because a frivolous argument is not included in this document does not mean that it is not frivolous.

 

[tommyrp12]

So what is frivolous about the plain wording of the law ?

not included in this document does not mean that it is not frivolous.

It does not mean this particular method is frivolous either. They would have to have some basis for calling it that. Being the worlds taxation authority, I think they could put it in plain wording as well.

12 U.S. Code § 411 - Issuance to reserve banks; nature of obligation; redemption

Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are authorized. The said notes shall be obligations of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank.

Ok this is where the use(trust) of said notes makes you an agent ,therefore acting in trust with the united states and federal reserve ,with fiduciary duties to pay off the national debt. The presumed entity or trustee is a legal fiction with all caps name and a SS number it exists on paper only you need to physically act for it to have any effect in the real world.
This is called the PERSON. It is the object of all legislation and US code owing a extraordinarily strict duty to obey it. To become a PERSON is voluntary and it happens at birth. To use Federal Reserve Notes is also voluntary, that happens on the back of your paycheck.

The thing to keep in mind is these fictions exist in a fictional world of law which falls under the category of faith and religion, the constitution applies to The founders and their posterity and anyone with an oath. Not us. It is their private jural law society. Lysander has already destroyed it as some sort of contract. The truth is, it is a trust. Stay out of it. Leave the obligations/ supposed benefits ,with the trustees/agents.

To make a demand of the bank to make good on its debts while remaining private and in a separate jurisdiction than the US/FED is the goal. Which is using the real law of self determination and free association, no one is a authority over you. No one is born with divine rights , or as a law giver. This is where there are many mental models that can develop.

The term "they shall (will) be redeemed in lawfull money" is pretty clear what will be redeemed and leaves the question of who will be doing the redeeming open ended. Again more models can develop from this as their ignorance of their laws is no excuse maybe there is a way of noticing them before hand. Or just use different money in exchange for your labor.

There is a considerable difference between credit and money. The national debt is only going one way and that is up. Its almost as if they are waiting for someone to start making good on them, in the meantime, I guess its a party for the ones living on credit and banking loans. But it is in reality bondage. If the government could redeem them or pay a debt with a debt ,they would just print enough "money" to do so and be done with it.

Lawful Money

Definition of 'Lawful Money'


Any form of currency issued by the United States Treasury and not the Federal Reserve System, including gold and silver coins, Treasury notes, and Treasury bonds. Lawful money stands in contrast to fiat money, to which the government assigns value although it has no intrinsic value of its own and is not backed by reserves. Fiat money includes legal tender such as paper money, checks, drafts and bank notes.

Also known as "specie", which means "in actual form."

Investopedia explains 'Lawful Money'


Oddly enough, the dollar bills that we carry around in our wallets are not considered lawful money. The notation on the bottom of a U.S. dollar bill reads "Legal Tender for All Debts, Public and Private", and is issued by the U.S. Federal Reserve, not the U.S. Treasury. Legal tender can be exchanged for an equivalent amount of lawful money, but effects such as inflation can change the value of fiat money. Lawful money is said to be the most direct form of ownership, but for purposes of practicality it has little use in direct transactions between parties anymore.

as opposed to this

You can see the difference. This is my understanding of the basis for the method, minus the noticing of the trustees. I think that is open for debate especially with the internet, you may not have to use (trust) state approved methodology. Some over there approve of using title 28 1333(notes: “the right of a common law remedy where the common law is competent to give it.” ) for common law remedy to the problem and default judgment in your favor over a conflict of interest. You can go to that site and see for yourself and follow ,discard , or create your own method by reading about the info, it seems that is the trend over there anyway, they are extremely helpful and don't mind constructive criticism either.

 

[TheCount]

I see you've got about three, maybe four different conspiracy theories in there. Why stop there? Why not go all the way and A4V, admiralty court, berth certificate your way to wealth?

 

[tommyrp12]

Ok, I didn't say anything about A4V ,you have to work for what you get no matter what. This is simply about getting a full return of your withholdings. You should go and read a bit before ridiculing it and associating it with non sense.

 

[TheCount]

Ok, I didn't say anything about A4V ,you have to work for what you get no matter what. This is simply about getting a full return of your withholdings. You should go and read a bit before ridiculing it and associating it with non sense.

I'm familiar with what you are talking about and have read about it extensively. The idea that carrying FRNs makes you a reserve bank, or an agent of a reserve bank, is nonsense all by itself. You, however, didn't stop there, but added the idea that person doesn't really mean person but instead means something else, and then doubled down with the 'the law only applies to X people' theory. You've done far more associating with nonsense than I ever could.

I'd argue the point with you, but I strongly identify with this quote:

“It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.”
Jonathan Swift

 

[CPUd]

 

[tommyrp12]

I'm familiar with what you are talking about and have read about it extensively. The idea that carrying FRNs makes you a reserve bank, or an agent of a reserve bank, is nonsense all by itself. You, however, didn't stop there, but added the idea that person doesn't really mean person but instead means something else, and then doubled down with the 'the law only applies to X people' theory. You've done far more associating with nonsense than I ever could.

I'd argue the point with you, but I strongly identify with this quote:

The title says exactly what FRN's are for, and who is authorized to use them. Its also in the federal reserve act.
All I said was that the term person, is a legal fiction which is called a corporate person who is a citizen/ subject. All the laws pertain to them , not human beings. They are definitely two separate beings. People are declared civilly dead all the time, yet are as healthy as an ox. They loose all of their civil rights from what I have read of those situations.
Since the law is all fiction made up by 535 people in congress, born with zero authority over anyone. What they would be doing is human trafficking if it is not by consent.
I know of no one who would consider it legitimate to do this to your neighbor. Just make up fictitious laws, and apply them with force.