Is Ted Cruz undermining Rand Paul?

libertygold said:
Has anyone else seen that ted cruz said rand can't win because of his father? What the heck is that all about? Way for cruz to show his gratitude when it ron helped him become Senator.
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You're going to have to provide a link because that doesn't seem right
EDIT - Just read the article. I'm dubious to be frank. Especially since it came from the New York Times... and no one was actually quoted.

Speaking of Ted Cruz.. Has he even expressed interest in running for President? I don't mean that in a snarky way but it seems the only people throwing that around are Tea Party conservatives hoping that he runs.
I actually like Ted Cruz, certainly more than the majority of people on this forum seem to. With that said, it would be a horrible mistake for him to run for President because he would absolutely split the Tea Party/Libertarian vote in the Primary which would almost assuredly ruin Rand's chances. Him and Rand seem to be good friends and I do believe they are both fighting for the Constitution and the Republic so I have to believe he knows that would completely spoil any chance for a Libertarian or non-establishment republican to win the White House.

As a matter of fact (well, opinion actually), while I have no evidence, I actually think Ted Cruz took a political bullet for Rand when he "filibustered" over Obamacare. It got the WHOLE Country talking about Obamacare and shone a bright, white hot spotlight on this terrible law and drew a stark contrast between the establishment GOP and constitutional conservatives and now it's being proven how right he was.. however, he (Cruz) continues and will continue to be martyred for what he did in the Media and Rand Paul can collect the spoils of being in direct opposition to Obamacare while not suffering the same political damage that Cruz may have gotten. Whether Cruz did it intentionally or not, we'll never know

One thing we do know is.. Rand Paul is known for being vehemently against the Health Care law and yet he's not lumped in with the "crazy Tea Party" who "shut down the government". Win win.
 
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serenityrick said:
You're going to have to provide a link because that doesn't seem right

Speaking of Ted Cruz.. Has he even expressed interest in running for President? I don't mean that in a snarky way but it seems the only people throwing that around are Tea Party conservatives hoping that he runs.
I actually like Ted Cruz, certainly more than the majority of people on this forum seem to. With that said, it would be a horrible mistake for him to run for President because he would absolutely split the Tea Party/Libertarian vote in the Primary which would almost assuredly ruin Rand's chances. Him and Rand seem to be good friends and I do believe they are both fighting for the Constitution and the Republic so I have to believe he knows that would completely spoil any chance for a Libertarian or non-establishment republican to win the White House.

As a matter of fact (well, opinion actually), while I have no evidence, I actually think Ted Cruz took a political bullet for Rand when he "filibustered" over Obamacare. It got the WHOLE Country talking about Obamacare and shone a bright, white hot spotlight on this terrible law and drew a stark contrast between the establishment GOP and constitutional conservatives and now it's being proven how right he was.. however, he (Cruz) continues and will continue to be martyred for what he did in the Media and Rand Paul can collect the spoils of being in direct opposition to Obamacare while not suffering the same political damage that Cruz may have gotten. Whether Cruz did it intentionally or not, we'll never know

One thing we do know is.. Rand Paul is known for being vehemently against the Health Care law and yet he's not lumped in with the "crazy Tea Party" who "shut down the government". Win win.
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Here you go. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/02/u...simmers-as-paths-and-styles-diverge.html?_r=0
 
Can a mod change the title of this thread? Nothing wrong with the discussion, but the title is needlessly (and imo at present, groundlessly) inflammatory.
 
I didn't mean undermine as some sort of insidious conspiracy. Undermined is just anytime something happens which works against one's goals. I don't think ted cruz is out to completely undermine rand's political career, I just think his actions have undermined rand's presidential run. I raised it as a question to see if others had a similar thought and it turns out some have and some haven't. When I originally posted it seemed like everyone was on board for Cruz and I thought maybe I am the only one who is thinking this but I wanted to see if others were as well. I suppose to boil it down we are both looking at the word "undermine" differently. I don't see it as being a grand conspiracy or even malicious but just an objective assessment of if something is setting one's goal back. Heavy rain undermines my ability to go outside for a run. Given cruz's long ties to the bush family and as someone else on here pointed out his wife's working for goldman sachs, i do think he may indeed be running interference for the establishment which has always wanted to divide the liberty movement. And that is why yes, I raised the question if ted cruz was undermining rand paul. I saw a lot of people getting excited about cruz and it didn't seem to me like they were looking long-term to see this could actually be setting the movement back.
 
Seemed pretty clear from watching cruz's appearance on Leno that he will run for president. It was not on purpose because the timing was probably planned way in advance but cruz was going on the tonight show and getting good publicity while rand was mired down in the plagiarism scandal. Oh well, still time to see how this plays out. The liberal media will eventually have to back off the plagiarism story because it will get boring if the worst they have on rand is just that his staff put a few lines from wikipedia in a speech.
 
I remember Perry being critical of the Federal Reserve. Cruz may be the bankers way to kill two birds with one stone. Rand Paul and Perry. I see that Christy's wife also worked for a Wall Street firm, Cantor-Fitzgerald I believe.
 
I still stick to the notion that worse case scenario is: Ted and Rand both run for President. First couple Primary states, Rand wins some, Ted gets some, Ted drops out because his grassroots is not as strong as Rand's, before he drops out he will ask his voters to support Rand 100% and then hopefully 75% of his voters will link up with him.
 
philipped said:
I still stick to the notion that worse case scenario is: Ted and Rand both run for President. First couple Primary states, Rand wins some, Ted gets some, Ted drops out because his grassroots is not as strong as Rand's, before he drops out he will ask his voters to support Rand 100% and then hopefully 75% of his voters will link up with him.
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That is a scenario but I don't think it is the worst case scenario. I think the worst case scenario is Ted builds some momentum after maybe winning Iowa or New Hampshire and the resources of the liberty movement become split between the two of them. Even if 10% of resources which would normally go to Rand are diverted (time, money, energy) that would be enough to cost Rand because he needs everything given what he is up against in the Republican establishment with people like Christie and Jeb Bush. Also, if ted and rand are competing in states early on it could develop bad relations between their staffs which may make it difficult to coordinate if your scenario is correct about ted pulling out. I read recently there was a lot of tension between the staffs of Christie and Romney. This suggests that even if two politicians get along perfectly fine, personal divides can emerge among staff. Those wounds may not heal in time to unify the liberty movement before Christie or Jeb Bush steam roll right through with all their establishment money. What has me kind of concerned, not that I am trying to be paranoid, is that Ted Cruz has been very close to the Bush family for over a decade. This suggests to me he is being used by the neo-con establishment which fears Rand. My evaluation is that rand is much more sincere about liberty (he was raised by a great man), while ted is more of an opportunist trying to steal the glory away which was going towards Rand.
 
69360 said:
Right if Cruz and Paul both run it will be decided between them in the first two states. One will endorse the other after NH.
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The damage will have been done. The momentum given to whoever wins Iowa and New Hampshire will be a big advantage. Even if lets say ted cruz drops out after New Hampshire it seems like he is leaving the race early but he isn't if you see the long game and realize how many resources he would have taken away from Rand before anyone even votes or a caucus is held.
 
I think the drudge story about Cruz being the third most popular world leader has vindicated the concerns I had about the establishment undermining Rand through Cruz. Drudge is very close to members of the GOP establishment like he was with members of the Romney campaign and they feed him things to suit their agenda. It's all been set up to make Ted Cruz the liberty candidate to undermine Rand which then strengthens the establishment of the GOP. If Ted did not rise, Rand would be a lot better right now.
 
LG, thank God I'm not the only one seeing this. People have to realize this is the only shot they got right now. Christie, McCain Graham and that big mouth King hasn't fazed Rand one bit, but them pushing Cruz has. What do you do? Attack then risk backlash, wait and see how it plays out? I don't know. Was hoping someone else did.
 
The GOP's play is Ryan. Cruz beautifully teed up Ryan with his shutdown.

Its not that hard to follow along.

Cruz is not the nominee at all. Not this time around. Keep focused on the establishment.
 
idiom said:
The GOP's play is Ryan. Cruz beautifully teed up Ryan with his shutdown.

Its not that hard to follow along.

Cruz is not the nominee at all. Not this time around. Keep focused on the establishment.
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I agree Cruz isn't their guy, but he IS their guy when it comes to stopping Rand. That's not hard to see either. I also don't see Ryan as being their guy. I can't see him winning the GOP nomination much less the general election. I simply don't see Ryan as being a "strong" enough candidate for the big money folks to risk their money on.
 
rich34 said:
I agree Cruz isn't their guy, but he IS their guy when it comes to stopping Rand. That's not hard to see either. I also don't see Ryan as being their guy. I can't see him winning the GOP nomination much less the general election. I simply don't see Ryan as being a "strong" enough candidate for the big money folks to risk their money on.
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GOP nomination is determined by seniority, not meritocracy. You get nominated for being a proven team player.
 
People seem to forget Boehner and Canter changed the rules in the house one week before Cruz' shut down. They changed the rules so that ONLY Boehner or Canter could put up a resolution. Without that, Cruz would not have gotten the spotlight as long as he did.

People are blind to not see the establishment HELPED Cruz with the shut down. Now ask "why?"
 
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