Wesker1982
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I see my work here is already done.
Is secession treason?
- Thread starter otherone
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I see my work here is already done.
Is secession treason ? If I was able to get my county to secede , I would not feel treasonous . I do feel the govt.'s have been treasonous against me , considering the current amount of taxes , property tax , social security , medicare , medicaid , Federal , State and county tax , the three gas taxes , sales tax on farm seeds , sales tax on utilities , drivers license fees , license plate fees ....
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Pericles
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Switzerland has a real federal system, but like in the US, there is a tendency on the part of the socialists to make everything into a federal law, to usurp the powers of the Kantons.
In the US, I'm less than $250K in capital away form getting a freedom project started in a favorable location.
Outstanding .
Where where you from originally ? I am a Hoosier .
Czolgosz
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Are you able to elaborate on your freedom project? Or perhaps provide some literature?
Work is never done .
CaptainAmerica
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Secession is a right of free people.
Pericles
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I was born in a small town in Texas with a stop sign, a stop light, and a 4 way flasher. I grew up in a relative free country that no longer exists, and I'm working to get that back.
Pericles
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The plan is relatively simple, which is why there might be a chance of success. A county has been targeted which has a part time sheriff and no other law enforcement, a county wide school district with less than 50 students, a low population, no zoning laws, low property and other taxes as a result of low population, and no aquifier district, which under the laws of the state, do not restrict water wells.
Do a FSP in miniature, but the location is isolated (which makes it a good SHTF bug out location), so you move your residence there for voting and tax purposes and build your bug out place. Then we start on economic development that would eventually allow for full time residence and build an actual defendable community.
At the state level, ther is no income tax, a sales tax, which a barter system avoids, car registration @ about $50 per year, and controlling the county board controls tax rates on property. Depending on your profession, there may be some state licensing or regulations, but other than that you could be as free person as is possible in the US.
PM me for more specifics on the deal for those interested.
jmdrake
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How would such a law be enforced when most transactions these days are electronic? On the other hand a state could easily enforce not forwarding income taxes form any state employees. Just hold the with-holdings.
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osan
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Buchanan had it right.
Article III section 3:
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.
So a peaceful revolution is actually legal?
Depends on one's point of view. But in principle, secession is a peaceful process whereby the people of a state say they have had enough of the country club membership and choose to leave the union. There really is nothing the rest of the states can do about it, save to bring violence to bear, either openly or through passive aggressions against the land-locked states by closing borders and airspace in order to isolate them politically, economically, and materially. This, of course, is a gross violation of the sovereign rights of that state's individual human residents.
At such a point any material violence mounted by a seceded state against those waging war against them could not in all good reason be construed as treason, but rather only as self defense.
Yet there is another dimension to this. Imagine a state wanted to secede for the purposes of instituting an absolutely vicious authoritarian regime such as that of China, the Soviets, or even worse (can there be worse??). Do we now see this as legitimate, particularly if a significant proportion of the people there are not in agreement with such a move? What if their plans were to kill all the Negroes... or maybe all the Jews.... puppy dogs or kittens or whatever personally would outrage you the most? Perhaps NAMBLA instituting a state so they can buttfuck little boys. What then? Is a population's personal outrage sufficient reason to interfere?
I am trying to point out just how stupidly pointless and nonsensical these political subdivisions are. "states" and "nations".... all bullshit. Pure, utter bullshit. Freedom is the only answer for the human race that stands a snowball's chance in hell of preserving us into the future. Big Bro and Mustafa Mond will drive us ever deeper into a new dark age. Hell, they already have. Make no mistake about it folks, we are currently entering the second great dark age and the door is shutting quickly behind us. And it is like a great vault door. Thick. Heavy. Resistant to the torch and explosives. Once closed, we are going to have a hell of a time prying it open again and probably will not for many generations to come.
The funniest thing about all of this is that this is like the baggage people carry with them throughout life, weighing them down. It could end at any time if all they did was relax their hands and let them go. So it is with "government" and the phony baloney "authority" it claims to carry. If people simply stopped obeying, especially in the real bullshit areas like paying taxes, getting driver's licenses, smoking dope, contracting with ho's and so forth, what would "government" do, beside sit there and pound salt up its own asshole? Nothing. It would be unable. If every decent citizen drew a gun and pointed it a cop who was violating our fellows, cops would fall silent, quiescent, and fearful of us as they should be. If we shot the bastards every time they brought injury to one of us, they would learn to demur and would inevitably quit to do something more suited to their levels of intellect like being school janitors.
The human world is such a mess because people's minds are. Rotten thinking leads to rotten attitudes which leads to rotten action. The choices are in our hands but most of us do not want to take responsibility. Always let the other guy do the dirty work. Don't rock the boat. Escape notice. Blend in. These are the precepts and principles of the lazy and cowardly.
How is it that a guy walks out of a Walmart in NV, gets shot dead by the cops and all that the rest of the people there can do is stare on in stupefied amazement? Why did they not draw their own weapons and hold the police as suspects until the truth came out? That event nutshells much of what is wrong with the people of the United States. We have become complacent pussies just like the Euros and timid cowards like the Chinese, ever more ready to lick the boots of authority in the hopes of ingratiating themselves to the master in anticipation of a miserable crumb or two from his lavishly set table. It is disgusting.
I say do not bother with secession from the union, for the states are no better than the feds, but only marginally smaller implementations on the same tyrannic pattern. Secede from government! Just stop cooperating. Give them nothing. Force them to become ever more brazen and to work ever more hard to take from you that to which they hold not title. Ahow them your ass and bid them kiss it... if you allow them even that much honor.
Believe it or not, a return to feudalism may be the best interim solution we have. Community feudalism at perhaps the county level where the local governments tell the state to fuck off and by extension the same to the feds. Well armed communities ready and willing to slaughter all who presume authority over free and sovereign people. Kill enough of them and they will back off if it comes to that, but in the meanwhile, starve them out through a refusal to participate in the came and refusal to comply with their ridiculous and unjust mandates. Bottom up is the only way because there are not nearly enough at the top to affect change from yon dizzying heights.
James Madison
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No. The states created the federal government and reserve the right to withdraw from the union.
Voluntary Man
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"Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better-- This is a most valuable, -- a most sacred right -- a right, which we hope and belive, is to liberate the world-- Nor is this right confined to cases in which the whole people of an existing government, may choose to exercise it-- Any portion of the such people of an existing government that can, may revolutionize, and make their own, of so much of the teritory as they inhabit-- More than this, a majority of any portion of the such people of an existing government, -- may revolutionize, putting down a minority, intermingled with, or near about them, who may oppose their movement-- Such minority, was precisely the case, of the tories of our own revolution-- It is not the qual a quality of revolutions, not to go by old lines, or old laws; but to break up both, and make new ones."[Congressman Abe Lincoln of IL 1848]
PaulineDisciple
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In our current situation, non-sucession is treason.
Czolgosz
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Excellent thoughts, I share much of your perspective.
It's time for action. Hell, it was time for action ~100 years ago when the fed began implementing absolutely insane crap (ssn, birth certificate, federal reserve, etc.). Generations have passed and none have fought it.
The problem many people have is that they'll be picked off one by one as they resist. Their lives burnt to the ground by this government's thugs. They will be nothing more than a footnote on a forum or an article in the paper denigrating the person as a criminal (one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter). Why bother?
Together, we can rebuild a community and defend it. A well detailed plan built from the many experts at our fingertips could be created and acted upon. Let's find a core team of doers and get it done. Don't let another generation pass.
osan
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Could there be a movement here? The Free Counties of America? We are certainly well enough armed, but are we resolved? I am thinking the FSP is too high-level to act alone. What if they got "help" on a broader, county by county basis? Elect sheriffs dedicated to freedom and from there work our way through the municipal governments. Those of the parasitic collectivist bent would be not only free, but most welcome to pack up and leave if they feel put upon by the expectations of freedom. Perhaps the next county over will offer them the soviet paradise for which they yearn. All I can say is that things are gone way off the rails and I for one am sick and friggin' tired of it. Seriously. Anyone up for brainstorming?
Czolgosz
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There are 4 of us in this thread alone, who, by previous comments I've read, are supportive of this type of initiative. In a country of ~350 million people (and plenty of "anti government" web sites) and support for Constitutional principles seemingly on the rise, we should be able to find a large number of participants.
We could use some good brainstorming sessions and strong leadership.
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