Is RP still legally able to declare a 3rd Party run?

[anaconda]

IF Ron went LP it would be as Pres. LP would have to want the gratitude of his followers, and POSSIBLY his $39 mill matching funds (if Ron is willing to file for those). Ron as LP VP isn't worth running for, imho. The point would be the presidential debates, and RON SHOULD get into those. Mind you, polls can be scheduled at 'bad' moments etc. so I guess there is never a guarantee of that.

Respectfully, I think you're not seeing the potential of RP as LP VP. It would be huge. It would be an unprecedented case of a VP essentially being the de facto co-Presidential candidate. Everyone would "get it." It could likely bounce the ticket immediately into the 15% debate qualifying range. We don't need Ron in the debates..we need a liberty candidate. Gary is actually better equipped to debate those other two clowns than Ron. While we all love Ron, Gary, with proper preparation, could make the case better before the national audience. Ron would likely appear on the MSM quire frequently to reinforce the message.

 

[sailingaway]

Ron wouldn't get in the debates as VP. I can't imagine him running nor his supporters wanting him to as VP. And I absolutely don't think Gary is nearly as equipped to debate the others as Ron, GJ doesn't even argue from principles.

You are saying RON should be essentially propping up GJ's no traction race. That is bass-ackwards, imho.

 

[anaconda]

if they shaft his delegates and don't seat enough for him to be nominated from the floor (which would require outright cheating by credentials if they failed to seat that many, imho) he might be pissed enough, or his supporters might be pissed enough to persuade him.

This would be plenty of justification. The public would be supportive. The Democrats will use it extensively (so Ron & Gary wouldn't have to spend resources selling it to the media, against an otherwise Republican financed rebuke of Ron. Independents would love it.)

 

[RonPaulFanInGA]

Are pigs still legally able to fly?

 

[anaconda]

You are saying RON should be essentially propping up GJ's no traction race. That is bass-ackwards, imho.

8% is not "no traction." And Ron would instantly breathe another 8% into it. Debate inclusion happens. Gary contrasts 180 degrees in the debates with Mittens and Soetoro. Ron gets a national debate with Biden and Ryan and contrasts 180 degrees as well. We get default help from Democratic Party. LP scores around 15% in the general, sending the Republican Party to a landslide loss and given a harsh lesson for the future (like maybe: don't even think about screwing with Rand?).

And, while I am reluctant to beat a dead horse, I will suggest again that this scheme would be naturally and obviously seen by the voters and media as and unconventional ticket where the "VP" is a defacto co-Presidential candidate, if not the defacto Presidential candidate. Ron would, of course, give continued props and full support publicly for Johnson as the unambiguous Presidential nominee.

 

[sailingaway]

personally under those circumstances I wouldn't even want him to run.

 

[anaconda]

personally under those circumstances I wouldn't even want him to run.

What's not to like?. It would be a classic coup and a terrific opportunity to add geometrically to the freedom message that the media ran roughshod over during the primary season. It would thrust RP right back into the spotlight.

 

[idiom]

As I understand it, the LP has entered its Electors as ballot entries, not Gary Johnson. Pretty sure GJ would happily move to the bottom of the ticket for a chance to win and be top of the ticket next go around.

 

[sailingaway]

As I understand it, the LP has entered its Electors as ballot entries, not Gary Johnson. Pretty sure GJ would happily move to the bottom of the ticket for a chance to win and be top of the ticket next go around.

this was my thought too.

 

[anaconda]

As I understand it, the LP has entered its Electors as ballot entries, not Gary Johnson. Pretty sure GJ would happily move to the bottom of the ticket for a chance to win and be top of the ticket next go around.

Thank you for this. But, what about "sore loser" laws?

Also, won't the ballots read "Electors for Gary Johnson, Libertarian" or something that names him specifically? Or are you saying the LP can switch the name before the ballots are printed?

 

[sailingaway]

Thank you for this. But, what about "sore loser" laws?

there is a line of cases that say they don't apply to Pres because you vote for electors not candidates, and they are unconstitutional if otherwise applied. Sore loser laws talk about who is on the ballot. If in those few states only, the ballot says 'libertarian' instead of Ron Paul it doesn't apply even if they were constitutional as applied.

But do you expect to win? Because the only way to do that is to get in the debates and the only way to get in the debates is with Ron running as President. Otherwise, even in sore loser states they would do better than without Ron at the top of the ticket.

But maybe Romney's credentials committee won't cheat Ron out of being nominated on the floor.

 

[Peace&Freedom]

We're just wrapping up the LP petition drive in NY right now, and internally I can say (without getting into unneeded details) that many on the ground activists are not pleased with aspects of the GJ campaign. Either a Paul substitution with Gray or with Johnson would require both the campaign and the party to formally agree to it, but would be an awkward mess done either way. The big reason to go in as a VP on the LP line would be that it's a 'simpler' awkward move. The LP would LOVE Paul on either end of the ticket, as it would create an explosion of media coverage for the party, and give more visibility and higher poll standing to other LP candidates he would appear with in the fall.

One practical reason why Paul did not affirm an interest in going third party (besides the sour grapes states issue) were the GOP rules that seem to say a candidate for the nomination can't be involved in other party nominations as well, without being barred from the Republican nomination. That ceases to be a factor after Tampa, so Paul could at least openly endorse the LP or CP candidate in September.

Ron Paul has otherwise made clear he will not run 3rd party because he is pushing his son Rand in '16, and the 'within the GOP' model of reform. But he SHOULD have done it---both earlier as a way of complementing or enhancing his GOP run while deflating the "Mitt is electable" meme from the start---and now, as a way of holding Romney and the GOP hacks accountable for abusing Paul and Paul delegates throughout the primaries and caucases.

My preferred scenario is, at this point, that he not do it in '12, and let Rand try to run in '16. If the Republican establishment do the same thing to Rand that they did to to Ron, by April 2016 Ron announces he will run on the LP and CP lines. No sour grapes laws problem in that case, and the campaign apparatus behind Rand just shifts over to provide support for Ron. Result, we would finally get to vote for Paul in November, and see what a strong 3rd party candidate can do with full funding, organization and name recognition on Election Day, without writing his name in.

 

[anaconda]

But do you expect to win? Because the only way to do that is to get in the debates and the only way to get in the debates is with Ron running as President.

Do not expect to win. My hope is to use the bullypulpit to spread the liberty message far more than was even done during the primary campaign. Also teach the Republican leadership a lesson that they were unwilling to learn. Change or suffer the consequences. Also get the LP enough votes to qualify for 50 state ballot access in 2016.

 

[anaconda]

the only way to do that is to get in the debates and the only way to get in the debates is with Ron running as President.

I am pretty confident that Ron's appearance on the ticket as "VP" (wink nod) would lurch the LP into the 15% category. Gary debates Robamny. Ron debates Ryden.

 

[sailingaway]

Why on earth would Ron want to be VP?

 

[anaconda]

We're just wrapping up the LP petition drive in NY right now, and internally I can say (without getting into unneeded details) that many on the ground activists are not pleased with aspects of the GJ campaign. Either a Paul substitution with Gray or with Johnson would require both the campaign and the party to formally agree to it, but would be an awkward mess done either way. The big reason to go in as a VP on the LP line would be that it's a 'simpler' awkward move. The LP would LOVE Paul on either end of the ticket, as it would create an explosion of media coverage for the party, and give more visibility and higher poll standing to other LP candidates he would appear with in the fall.

One practical reason why Paul did not affirm an interest in going third party (besides the sour grapes states issue) were the GOP rules that seem to say a candidate for the nomination can't be involved in other party nominations as well, without being barred from the Republican nomination. That ceases to be a factor after Tampa, so Paul could at least openly endorse the LP or CP candidate in September.

Ron Paul has otherwise made clear he will not run 3rd party because he is pushing his son Rand in '16, and the 'within the GOP' model of reform. But he SHOULD have done it---both earlier as a way of complementing or enhancing his GOP run while deflating the "Mitt is electable" meme from the start---and now, as a way of holding Romney and the GOP hacks accountable for abusing Paul and Paul delegates throughout the primaries and caucases.

My preferred scenario is, at this point, that he not do it in '12, and let Rand try to run in '16. If the Republican establishment do the same thing to Rand that they did to to Ron, by April 2016 Ron announces he will run on the LP and CP lines. No sour grapes laws problem in that case, and the campaign apparatus behind Rand just shifts over to provide support for Ron. Result, we would finally get to vote for Paul in November, and see what a strong 3rd party candidate can do with full funding, organization and name recognition on Election Day, without writing his name in.

Thank you for taking the time to write this insightful and helpful post. One comment: Don't think Ron will want to run for President at age 80. Depending on circumstances, I can, however, imagine Rand bolting ti the LP in 2016.

 

[anaconda]

Why on earth would Ron want to be VP?

In a liberty administration? I believe Ron would love it. Besides, this is not about winning in 2012. It's about a potentially monumental opportunity to double or triple the reach of the freedom message over what happened during the campaign. And force the GOP to play ball with us hereafter (Rand could threaten to do the same in 2016, for example). It also gives everybody a chance to "vote for Ron Paul" without having to hold their nose (as would have been the case if Ron had been the GOP VP nominee, as some were speculating on a while back).

 

[sailingaway]

I meant why would he want to run as VP?

Ron brings tons more money, name recognition, SUPPORTERS and attention. The prize would be the presidential debates and to say that should be Gary, not Ron, when Ron is the one bringing everything to the table is simply silly.

However, the only possibility I see of this happening is if Ron's delegates are not seated and allowed to nominate him from the floor. The speech at RNC was the prize in this election for this campaign.

 

[anaconda]

Ron Paul has otherwise made clear he will not run 3rd party because he is pushing his son Rand in '16

Respectfully, I've never heard Ron Paul say anything remotely close to this.

As a side note, I simply cannot imagine the puppet masters letting Rand Paul get anywhere near the White House. This idea of "playing nice" with the GOP on behalf of Rand simply baffles me. More realistically, it seems like a dishonest ploy to keep Ron and Rand in line as long as possible. But without any honest intention of reciprocating.

 

[jointhefightforfreedom]

Just interested...

we should run a grassroots campaign like this against romney and obama ( damn , i upchucked a little just typing those names)