Is Rand our man or not?

[erowe1]

Le no longer can read your posts try it, it works ignore bye le good luck with the failed gop.
In colorado we do not need rand or le.

Dear mods, please don't ban SB. This stuff is gold.

 

[jjdoyle]

By that time, Ron himself had already bailed and sent out an email about it.

Do you have that email, or know the time it was sent? I know I have asked you before, but you never provided it.

 

[PAF]

Rand Paul On The Record:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?439108-Rand-Paul-On-The-Record

List of all 2016 potential candidates:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...-Presidential-Candidates-List-And-Information

 

[erowe1]

Do you have that email, or know the time it was sent? I know I have asked you before, but you never provided it.

I'm not personally going to go hunting down the evidence. Those of us who were actually involved in campaigning for Ron Paul went through the events personally. We remember them well. Yes, she's 100% correct that Ron Paul had already publicly conceded defeat to Romney before Rand endorsed Romney. He endorsed him as the Republican nominee for the general election. He did not endorse him in the primaries against his own dad, for whom he had been campaigning zealously against Romney.

 

[Christian Liberty]

oo i will support some liberty republicans in colorado unless they feel marijuana is dangerous and at that point they(republicans) are dangerous.

republicans do not have a hold on liberty Tisha Casida is running again and i plan to donate my money to her not the gop.

Rand is saying that the states should have the right to legalize pot. So really, that's all that matters with regards to this issue. I agree that Rand openly advocating for legalization would be a better position, but as long as he respects the 10th amendment I'll still support him.

 

[Bastiat's The Law]

Rand's most ardent supporters here keep telling us that isn't true. That there are more Reagan/Bush/McCain/Romney Republicans than there are Ron Paul Republicans. That we need to sit down, shut up, and stay out of sight from those coveted Republicans lest we upset them into thinking all of Rand's supporters are dope-smoking 9/11 Truthers.

Make up your minds. If you need us, don't tell us to shut up. We're the ones who brought Rand to the dance, after all.

Speaking as an ardent supporter of Rand; I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I've never said anything in the same universe as your statement.

 

[Bastiat's The Law]

He keeps doing interviews, twitter Q&As, and Google hangouts pretty frequently. I think he likes the attention and likely will run for Pres again using the LP. He could have run a serious campaign for Senate but didn't.

Gary becomes a bigger joke by the day. I actual liked the guy once upon a time. He's just not a serious person and doesn't have a unifying worldview. The Pauls and other uphold liberty. Gary is all over the map wanting to intervene abroad to find Kony. Ridiculous!

 

[Christian Liberty]

Speaking as an ardent supporter of Rand; I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I've never said anything in the same universe as your statement.

Well, you do occasionally rant against "anarchists" and/or complain when legitimate criticisms of Rand are brought up.

 

[compromise]

He keeps doing interviews, twitter Q&As, and Google hangouts pretty frequently. I think he likes the attention and likely will run for Pres again using the LP. He could have run a serious campaign for Senate but didn't.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he ran for President as a Republican again. He was hinting towards it a few months ago. Maybe he thinks he can take some of the libertine voters Rand lost?

 

[Christian Liberty]

Gary becomes a bigger joke by the day. I actual liked the guy once upon a time. He's just not a serious person and doesn't have a unifying worldview. The Pauls and other uphold liberty. Gary is all over the map wanting to intervene abroad to find Kony. Ridiculous!

Rand Paul's worldview isn't really consistent either, frankly. He's a mix of libertarianism, paleoconservatism, and Tea Party ideology. Which, I understand appeals to a broader audience than just straight libertarianism, and you can justify it however you want to, but I wouldn't say Rand is consistent. For what its worth, I do prefer Rand Paul over Johnson.

 

[compromise]

Not only does stoner Gary support war in Uganda, he also supports abortion on demand up to 20 weeks, film subsidies and federal gay marriage.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Not only does stoner Gary support war in Uganda, he also supports abortion on demand up to 20 weeks, film subsidies and federal gay marriage.

I think Judge Nap gets the Federal gay marriage issue wrong as well. He's cited Loving v Virginia as precedent. The one issue he gets wrong. I don't really care much about that issue anyway, however. The rest of the issues I agree with you on, with the caveat the Gary does correctly support a state's right to ban abortion.

 

[NOVALibertarian]

no rand will not get my vote and i will no longer be a republican delegate. I will look outside of the failed gop. I will look to support liberty in colorado but i have 0 interest in rands pandering bs.

Oh, god.

I'm not sure where your venom towards Rand comes from. Is it because he doesn't go around touting that marijuana should be legalized at the federal level? Is it because he "panders," even though it's all just rhetoric and his voting record clearly shows that he is almost identical to his father?

Ron's biggest problem was that he shot from the hip too many times. Seeing as we all (mostly) agreed with what he said, we were drawn to him. However, the same thing that drew us towards him also alienated a lot more people. Rand doesn't shoot like Ron does, and because of that he's near the top of almost every poll that I've seen. Because of this, he's built a solid following that derives from almost every faction of the Republican Party outside of the Neo-Conservatives, which is a dying ideology anyway.

 

[Snew]

Not only does stoner Gary support war in Uganda, he also supports abortion on demand up to 20 weeks, film subsidies and federal gay marriage.

I'm not a big GJ fan either, but I don't think this little dig was necessary.

 

[jjdoyle]

I'm not personally going to go hunting down the evidence. Those of us who were actually involved in campaigning for Ron Paul went through the events personally. We remember them well. Yes, she's 100% correct that Ron Paul had already publicly conceded defeat to Romney before Rand endorsed Romney. He endorsed him as the Republican nominee for the general election. He did not endorse him in the primaries against his own dad, for whom he had been campaigning zealously against Romney.

Well, I have also asked for a date/timeframe, because I have looked for it, since I have all the official campaign emails. The one thing I have found around that time, was Jesse Benton held a telephoned press conference (not email), in May 2012. In that very same phoned conference, is where he (once again) confirmed that Ron Paul 2012 was already talking with and communicating with Romney 2016. But, I am looking for the email of RP throwing in the towel, as some have claimed.

And as someone that was actually involved in campaigning for Ron Paul, and know people that paid their way to Florida, just because you think you remember something, doesn't make it true. Just as LE had heard/seen the campaign had little/no funds on hand, didn't make that true. The exact opposite was true, and the facts showed/show that. The campaign definitely was floating the "we are poor and need more" idea the whole time though. Apparently even leaving staffers completely in the dark until they filed the FEC reports.

I do know that there were some emails sent directly to individuals that had emailed the campaign though, as has been shown from another supporter here when they asked about a refund.

And Rand endorsed Mitt Romney before the RNC, which last I checked, you don't actually win the nomination until the RNC and the delegates are counted. I mean, just imagine if some big, huge, gigantic scandal had broken before the RNC. That was the whole point of encouraging Ron Paul supporters to become delegates, wasn't it? Or, was it really to just drag them along for more money?

And I do hope Rand learned from 2008, and 2012, but I'm just not seeing it. Even in his recent attacks on Bill Clinton, he is missing a huge opportunity to make one issue, a gold mine win for him with it.

So, as long as Rand has nobody on staff from Ron Paul 2012, I'll be more willing to donate. But, I won't donate a dime if Rand has anybody on staff from Ron Paul 2012. I don't want to donate money to people that willingly lied to supporters for months, and simply took orders and didn't ask any questions, because they were getting paychecks.

 

[klamath]

Well, I have also asked for a date/timeframe, because I have looked for it, since I have all the official campaign emails. The one thing I have found around that time, was Jesse Benton held a telephoned press conference (not email), in May 2012. In that very same phoned conference, is where he (once again) confirmed that Ron Paul 2012 was already talking with and communicating with Romney 2016. But, I am looking for the email of RP throwing in the towel, as some have claimed.

And as someone that was actually involved in campaigning for Ron Paul, and know people that paid their way to Florida, just because you think you remember something, doesn't make it true. Just as LE had heard/seen the campaign had little/no funds on hand, didn't make that true. The exact opposite was true, and the facts showed/show that. The campaign definitely was floating the "we are poor and need more" idea the whole time though. Apparently even leaving staffers completely in the dark until they filed the FEC reports.

I do know that there were some emails sent directly to individuals that had emailed the campaign though, as has been shown from another supporter here when they asked about a refund.

And Rand endorsed Mitt Romney before the RNC, which last I checked, you don't actually win the nomination until the RNC and the delegates are counted. I mean, just imagine if some big, huge, gigantic scandal had broken before the RNC. That was the whole point of encouraging Ron Paul supporters to become delegates, wasn't it? Or, was it really to just drag them along for more money?

And I do hope Rand learned from 2008, and 2012, but I'm just not seeing it. Even in his recent attacks on Bill Clinton, he is missing a huge opportunity to make one issue, a gold mine win for him with it.

So, as long as Rand has nobody on staff from Ron Paul 2012, I'll be more willing to donate. But, I won't donate a dime if Rand has anybody on staff from Ron Paul 2012. I don't want to donate money to people that willingly lied to supporters for months, and simply took orders and didn't ask any questions, because they were getting paychecks.

RP made it abundantly clear he was running a education campaign from the very months he announced his 2012 run. Sorry you didn't catch it and feel so bitter about the time and money you spent. Let's hope he educated you on telling the difference between a education campaign and one looking for electoral victory.

 

[erowe1]

I have all the official campaign emails.

I'm calling your bluff.

No one who was actually actively involved in supporting Ron Paul at that time would dispute this point.

ETA: I'm disappointed with myself for bothering to find this, but here.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/burns-haberman/2012/06/ron-paul-i-wont-be-the-nominee-125509.html

“I wanted you to get an update from me personally, since we have some great news!

“Due to the smart planning of our campaign and the hard work and diligence of supporters like you, we stand to send nearly 200 bound delegates to the Republican National Convention in Tampa. This number shatters the predictions of the pundits and talking heads and shows the seriousness of our movement.

“What's more, we will send several hundred additional supporters to Tampa who, while bound to Romney, believe in our ideas of liberty, constitutional government, and a common-sense foreign policy.

“When it is all said and done, we will likely have as many as 500 supporters as delegates on the Convention floor. That is just over 20 percent!

“And while this total is not enough to win the nomination, it puts us in a tremendous position to grow our movement and shape the future of the GOP!

“I hope every one of you continues the fight we have advanced so well this year. I hope you will finish your local and state conventions, and, if you were selected as a national delegate, that you will head to Tampa in August to force the Republican Party to listen to the voice of liberty.

“We have never had this kind of opportunity. There will be hundreds of your fellow supporters in Tampa who will be ready and willing to push the Republican Party back to its limited government, liberty roots.

“There are many issues to fight for in Tampa. Also, candidates like Justin Amash, Kurt Bills, and Thomas Massie need your support as we move into the fall. Across the country, supporters of liberty have won local office and leadership positions in the GOP, and we need to keep working.

“Our delegates’ presence must be felt both in Tampa and in years to come.

“Stand up for what we believe in. Be respectful. And let the establishment know that we are the future of the Party and of the country.

“Our Revolution is just getting started. You'll be hearing plenty from me as we approach Tampa and the fall elections. You'll also be hearing of important developments on Audit the Fed and Campaign for Liberty.

“I hope you'll continue to stand with me as we go forward. Our Revolution could not have come this far without you.

“For Liberty,

Ron Paul”

Rand waited until after that email before he endorsed Romney.

 

[jjdoyle]

RP made it abundantly clear he was running a education campaign from the very months he announced his 2012 run. Sorry you didn't catch it and feel so bitter about the time and money you spent. Let's hope he educated you on telling the difference between a education campaign and one looking for electoral victory.

Well, Ron Paul 2012 ran a pretty horrible educational campaign, considering they raised more money than Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich, and received fewer votes than they did.
Going to college campuses, giving stump speeches, doesn't require millions, much less a private jet.

I know what an educational campaign is, and Ron Paul 2012 was not that. Ron Paul 2012 didn't run any educational ads in Virginia, Maine, Texas, California, North Carolina, or other states that would be beneficial to Rand in 2016. Or, other liberty minded candidate.

Ron Paul 2012, was not, in any sense an educational campaign. It wasn't even a presidential campaign, after they agreed to help Mitt Romney by attacking Rick Santorum in Michigan. If it was, they would have concentrated on educational ads. Not Rick Santorum Sasquatch attack ads. I have already stated this, and even showed how Herman Cain's campaign put together an educational ad/video on his stupid 999 plan.

I'm calling your bluff.

No one who was actually actively involved in supporting Ron Paul at that time would dispute this point.

ETA: I'm disappointed with myself for bothering to find this, but here.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/burns-haberman/2012/06/ron-paul-i-wont-be-the-nominee-125509.html


Rand waited until after that email before he endorsed Romney.

That was on June 6th (sent maybe on June 5th), not in May, April, March, February, or January. That was my point. This was the day before Rand went on national TV to endorse Romney (June 7). They were coordinating together on it. The entire time. Ron Paul 2012, and Romney's campaign for President. Working hand-in-hand for months, without letting Ron Paul 2012 supporters knowing the deal they had already made.

It was, and has been my point the entire time. They wasted months of supporters time and money, when they had already been making deals with Romney's campaign behind-the-scenes.

 

[klamath]

Well, Ron Paul 2012 ran a pretty horrible educational campaign, considering they raised more money than Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich, and received fewer votes than they did.
Going to college campuses, giving stump speeches, doesn't require millions, much less a private jet.

I know what an educational campaign is, and Ron Paul 2012 was not that. Ron Paul 2012 didn't run any educational ads in Virginia, Maine, Texas, California, North Carolina, or other states that would be beneficial to Rand in 2016. Or, other liberty minded candidate.

Ron Paul 2012, was not, in any sense an educational campaign. It wasn't even a presidential campaign, after they agreed to help Mitt Romney by attacking Rick Santorum in Michigan. If it was, they would have concentrated on educational ads. Not Rick Santorum Sasquatch attack ads. I have already stated this, and even showed how Herman Cain's campaign put together an educational ad/video on his stupid 999 plan.



That was on June 6th (sent maybe on June 5th), not in May, April, March, February, or January. That was my point. This was the day before Rand went on national TV to endorse Romney (June 7). They were coordinating together on it. The entire time. Ron Paul 2012, and Romney's campaign for President. Working hand-in-hand for months, without letting Ron Paul 2012 supporters knowing the deal they had already made.

It was, and has been my point the entire time. They wasted months of supporters time and money, when they had already been making deals with Romney's campaign behind-the-scenes.

This is what you said.

But, I am looking for the email of RP throwing in the towel, as some have claimed.

Erowe1 produced it and now you change what you were saying. Man up and admit you were wrong.
Erowe1's original point that YOU challenged was Rand endorsed After Ron said he could no longer win. Erowe1 and I both remember this quite well because we got banned for pointing this out.

 

[erowe1]

That was on June 6th (sent maybe on June 5th), not in May, April, March, February, or January. That was my point. This was the day before Rand went on national TV to endorse Romney (June 7). They were coordinating together on it. The entire time. Ron Paul 2012, and Romney's campaign for President. Working hand-in-hand for months, without letting Ron Paul 2012 supporters knowing the deal they had already made.

Where do you get "the entire time" and "for months"?

Yes, I think it stands to reason that this email and Rand's endorsement had been coordinated some time before the email went out. But months? That's a stretch.