Is College A Scam?

[KCIndy]

I really appreciate all the advice. I'll use all of it.

Also, I might add that my planned majors were math and finance. Is there anywhere I could start in those areas?

Well...

Those are certainly usable skills. You might look into the requirements for becoming an actuary. (someone who uses statistics to compile risk assessments for insurance companies) From what I understand, however, you have to be really, REALLY good at math and stats to pass qualifiers.... Sounds kinda like it's the "Navy Seals" of accounting!

But if you can handle it, actuaries are arguably among the very highest paid in the math/stats field. Here's an article from CNN Money discussing it:

http://money.cnn.com/2013/04/25/news/economy/best-job-actuary/


All that being said...

One more thing I really detested about academia when I was attending university was the single inescapable underlying truth of degrees and the jobs that they'll get you:

It's not what you know, it's who you know.

Admission: I'm not entirely unbiased here, so take this with a grain of salt. But when I was in school I saw any number of occasions when I (or friends of mine) would bust tail trying to line up part time jobs and/or internships. We would fill out all the applications, try to chase down written recommendations, make sure we took all the necessary classes, and make ourselves presentable for interviews... only to have the position go to some "friend of the family" of the person doing the hiring.

Nope. I'm not kidding. The kids who most often got the best internships and post-grad job offers were the ones who had all the right *social* connections rather than the best academic qualifications.

Of course, maybe that was just the times. I'll keep on hoping things have changed in that regard, but I'm not going to be surprised if it hasn't.

If you aren't fond of kissing tail, it's one more good reason to get out of academia and either: A) start your own business, or, B) learn a skill set where your talent is obvious and incontrovertible.

 

[RickyJ]

That paper may be required to actually get an interview in an industry.

I said it wouldn't get you a job, I didn't say it wouldn't get you an interview.

 

[VIDEODROME]

If you find a trade that interests you, try finding out if it requires Certifications and just study up for those exams.

I think for many students including myself, they finish a degree program and lack the time and money to pursue the required Certification exams that often seem over priced. In my example, pursuing IT and looking at CompTIA.

Or... even if the the student has all the qualifications, they may need to move to a city to find the jobs they studied for. Again, where can I go with a Degree in Cyber Security if I live in a small town?

 

[Matthew5]

I said it wouldn't get you a job, I didn't say it wouldn't get you an interview.

An interview is an important part of getting a job. You can't get the job if you don't get the interview.

 

[DamianTV]

An interview is an important part of getting a job. You can't get the job if you don't get the interview.

The job needs to exist before you can even get an interview.

 

[Scrapmo]

1.Can you get hired in the field you want to be in without a college degree?
Yes? Don't go to college. No? Go to question 2.

2. Is the job market promising for your degree?
No? Don't go to college Yes? Go to question 3.

3. Will your potential income from potential job allow you to pay of any potential debt that you may potentially acquire, quickly (potentially)?
No? Don't go to college Yes? Try learning a trade (and save money) before trying college.

I have 2 bachelors and a masters. The Best education I received was after I left all that bullshit behind and got a library card, they know me by name there.

Mark Twain — 'I have never let my schooling interfere with my education.'

 

[69360]

For the most part, yes college is a scam. There are some exceptions like specialized doctors where you are virtually guaranteed to make your investment back and a good profit.

 

[DamianTV]

What is left of our decimated job market now places higher value on Expensive Certificates of Obedience instead of Experience. Why? That is what HR is both Indoctrinated and Instructed to do.

 

[VIDEODROME]

What is left of our decimated job market now places higher value on Expensive Certificates of Obedience instead of Experience. Why? That is what HR is both Indoctrinated and Instructed to do.

It's a vicious circle. Industry starts demanding more of colleges to educate their students. They respond by embrace a "Teach to the Test" method just so students can be prepped for these overpriced certifications.

Then new Grads come out with their degree knowing they need more papers, so they just hit the books and cram for Certs. Certainly, after this process they'll be exposed to fundamentals of their trade, but how much comprehension and retention will they maintain after passing their exams?

Ironically, if a grad just grinds through several Certs in a short time, it will raise red flags. Employers will believe they just crammed like hell and do not retain the material or they must be cheating.

 

[phill4paul]

College is an \ˌin(t)-stə-ˈtü-shən/.

A place where an organization takes care of people for a usually long period of time. A place for the care of persons who are (soon to be) destitute, disabled, or mentally ill.

 

[Dr.3D]

LOL, my employer sent me to school for nearly 30 years. I have more than 2000 credit hours, but that didn't do anything for my income. It did however enrich the professors at the educational institutions I visited. I guess they have to get the money to plant the ivy around those expensive buildings somehow.

 

[Carson]

It sounds to me like your community collage in Utah is a great place to start.

I don't see a whole lot of people making money as musicians.

I've known one that did it. He plays jazz somewhere around Chicago (?) Another kid I knew in elementary school really had a gift with any instrument he picked up. I don't know what he finally ended up doing. For most of us it is a hobby.

Here is a link to a story over on fark where the comments cover some of the colleges that might be considered scams. Not that people aren't making them work for them. You may find some of the comments interesting. If you want to read the story the comments are about, click the icon in the upper left that looks like an icon of, "The Huffington Post".

http://www.fark.com/comments/8079864/For-profit-college-accused-of-artificially-inflating-job-placement-numbers-by-hiring-temp-companys-to-churn-through-graduates-classifying-McDonalds-cooks-as-gainfully-employed-Quick-somebody-get-fainting-couch-for-tag

 

[Matthew5]

LOL, my employer sent me to school for nearly 30 years. I have more than 2000 credit hours, but that didn't do anything for my income. It did however enrich the professors at the educational institutions I visited. I guess they have to get the money to plant the ivy around those expensive buildings somehow.

Are these Continuing Education Credits?

 

[Carson]

P.S. Maybe take a look around you and see what kind of money people are making doing some of the things you might like.

Lots of jobs people may find themselves well suited for but maybe the job isn't something suited for what they might want out of life. Maybe you may want to reach a little further?

 

[Dr.3D]

Are these Continuing Education Credits?

My employer just said they would pay for college credit hours so I went and took what classes I wanted. Yes, some if not most of them were work related, but many were just some things I was interested in. Guess I have what they call a well rounded education.

I always wondered why Music Appreciation was one of those required courses. I guess it's so we would have something in common to talk about at tea parties.
As for Abnormal Psychology, I suppose that one is so I would be able to understand why my boss was a prick.

Yeah, I was in controls engineering.

 

[Carson]

My employer just said they would pay for college credit hours so I went and took what classes I wanted. Yes, some if not most of them were work related, but many were just some things I was interested in. Guess I have what they call a well rounded education.

I always wondered why Music Appreciation was one of those required courses. I guess it's so we would have something in common to talk about at tea parties.
As for Abnormal Psychology, I suppose that one is so I would be able to understand why my boss was a prick.

Yeah, I was in controls engineering.

"As for Abnormal Psychology, I suppose that one is so I would be able to understand why my boss was a prick. "

Maybe it was to find out your not a prick.

When I was married my wife studied nursing. I picked up her Abnormal Psychology book and started reading. The more I read the more I was freaking out. I had every one of the abnormalities listed in the book. Near the end I admitted it to my wife with considerable concern. She just laughed and said every one does. Most people are able to keep them in check and at normal level. Some people just seem to get caught up and take them to extremes.

 

[Matthew5]

My employer just said they would pay for college credit hours so I went and took what classes I wanted. Yes, some if not most of them were work related, but many were just some things I was interested in. Guess I have what they call a well rounded education.

I always wondered why Music Appreciation was one of those required courses. I guess it's so we would have something in common to talk about at tea parties.
As for Abnormal Psychology, I suppose that one is so I would be able to understand why my boss was a prick.

Yeah, I was in controls engineering.

Ok, so your employer didn't force you to get 2,000 hours...they offered and you accepted, right? Couldn't you have refused?

 

[Dr.3D]

Ok, so your employer didn't force you to get 2,000 hours...they offered and you accepted, right? Couldn't you have refused?

I was being paid to take the courses so why not? I could have refused, but was better than working. LOL

 

[brushfire]

Sounds like you've got some soul searching to do.

College is what you make of it, and life only gains momentum... This may be your only opportunity, before responsibility and plain life in general has consumed all of your time. 19 can be a difficult time. The younger you are, the harder it is to have enough prospective to be able to appreciate opportunities that life presents. Experiment, try stuff, and when you find something you really enjoy, figure out a way to get paid for it. If you can afford to do internships, or something in a field of interest, that's probably a better strategy than just taking any kind of work. I know a guy who worked at a Denny's when he was in college, and he still works there some 20 years later. Smart guy, with plenty of talent, but lacking in prospective. He cannot do the things he loves because he could never bring himself to "make hay while the sun was shining".

So, lots of people don't go to college. Lots of people that do, but dont graduate college. ...and, lots of people who do get a degree end up working at bars, car washes, and book stores (which is ok if that's what they enjoy). The bottom line is, college doesn't guarantee you anything.
What is certain however, is there will be a limit to how many days you have, and how many of those days are productive and enjoyable. Try to make them count, and try to keep an equilibrium between living for today and living for tomorrow. Take some time to think about things, and work towards doing something you enjoy.

Good luck with whatever it is that you do...

 

[DamianTV]

What Makes a Genius?
http://news.slashdot.org/story/14/01/18/1632208/what-makes-a-genius

"Eric Barker writes at TheWeek that while high intelligence has its place, a large-scale study of more than three hundred creative high achievers including Leonardo da Vinci, Galileo, Beethoven, and Rembrandt has found that curiosity, passion, hard work, and persistence bordering on obsession are the hallmarks of genius. 'Successful creative people tend to have two things in abundance, curiosity and drive. They are absolutely fascinated by their subject, and while others may be more brilliant, their sheer desire for accomplishment is the decisive factor,' writes Tom Butler-Bowdon. It's not about formal education. 'The most eminent creators were those who had received a moderate amount of education, equal to about the middle of college. Less education than that — or more — corresponded to reduced eminence for creativity,' says Geoffrey Colvin. Those interested in the 10,000-hour theory of deliberate practice won't be surprised that the vast majority of them are workaholics. 'Sooner or later,' writes V. S. Pritchett, 'the great men turn out to be all alike. They never stop working. They never lose a minute. It is very depressing.' Howard Gardner, who studied geniuses like Picasso, Freud, and Stravinsky, found a similar pattern of analyzing, testing, and feedback used by all of them: 'Creative individuals spend a considerable amount of time reflecting on what they are trying to accomplish, whether or not they are achieving success (and, if not, what they might do differently).' Finally, genius means sacrifice. 'My study reveals that, in one way or another, each of the creators became embedded in some kind of a bargain, deal, or Faustian arrangement, executed as a means of ensuring the preservation of his or her unusual gifts. In general, the creators were so caught up in the pursuit of their work mission that they sacrificed all, especially the possibility of a rounded personal existence,' says Gardner."

"Funny thing about Luck: The harder I try, the more Luck I seem to have."

College isnt that much different from Careers in this aspect. The more you enjoy a job, the better you will do at it. If it holds your interest, you should do good. If you're totally fascinated by it, you should do great. Not always the case.

Another problem with the system is the lack of ability to get Fired. People that should be fired for total incompetence of a specific job but can not be are very often promoted over a person who truly deserves it. They're promoted just to get them out of a situation where they comprimise the intention of a job.

The methods of Education itself needs to also be brought into question. Colleges do not teach or encourage thinking. They encourage absorbing information, then repeating the information. Any thought applied in most aspects are contained within a limited range of parameters. Think inside the box, not outside of it. Obedience and Productivity are rewarded over Creativity. College itself is an extension of most forms of Public Schooling, which most of us agree are failing us completely.

The information itself that College can provide is held hostage for a price. Both financial and a sense of Intellectual Inferiority. You arent allowed to understand this information without a Qualified Professional that is paid to present this information to you. Having an experienced Teacher can be a huge benefit, but if the lessons are Obedience instead of Understanding of the subject matter, that Information becomes useless. There is information that can be useful, but one needs to see beyond the Lesson of Obedience in order to learn that specific subject. The individual also has to find the information presented at least interesting. Without that inate desire to learn, very little of the subject matter except obedience will be retained by the student.

The bad behavior of our Govt is the result of Misplaced Power. On a moral level, our society declines partly because of the result of Misplaced Values. We value expensive pieces of paper that certify by professionals that some information has been crammed into our brains. We do not value experience. We do not value the intellectuals. We do not value Free Thinkers, Creativity, or Comprehension. We look down on people with experience if they do not have that shiny certificate, and do so wrongly. We look up to people who have paid for a certificate in a specific course of study and fail to recognize that although they have a certificate, they may not have either experience or a strong interest in that field of study. Straight A's do not an expert make.

As a society, as long as we continue to misplace our Trust, our Money, our Power, and our Values, we are doomed to further ourselves down this path of perpetual decline.