Is Bernie Sanders's message more popular than Ron Paul's?

[K466]

More popular because Bernie is not as radical as Ron Paul. Not even close. Thus he doesn't scare off millions of federal workers and millions of special interests that Ron Paul did. Bernie is all about increasing momentum in government growth. Ron's agenda was more disruptive because he would actually reverse this insanity.

Also because Americans are really stupid...

 

[misterx]

More popular because Bernie is not as radical as Ron Paul. Not even close. Thus he doesn't scare off millions of federal workers and millions of special interests that Ron Paul did. Bernie is all about increasing momentum in government growth. Ron's agenda was more disruptive because he would actually reverse this insanity.

Also because Americans are really stupid...

That's a good point. Bernie just wants to double down on the current system. Ron was trying to overthrow the system.

 

[Anti Federalist]

I guess 77 billion is small in comparison with the budget as a whole, but it's not exactly lunch money.

Keep in mind that's "transportation", not just roads.

That's everything from road re-paving to airport VASI lights to sea buoys.

But hey, you know, a trillion here and a trillion there and, by damn, soon you're talking about real money.

 

[DamianTV]

Both Anarchist and Minarchist are labels, but there are other labels that can be applied which mean the same thing.

Would anyone agree or disagree that a Minarchist might also meet the definition of a Constitutional Moderate?

 

[Bastiat's The Law]

My taxes will increase if Bernie gets his way. It's a shame that we live in a place that thieves like Bernie can run for president while people like me will be stolen from. I'd rather live in a place where I can kill people like Bernie for trying to steal from me. It's really a shame that a few people on this forum never understood liberty after being a member here for many years.

Everyone's taxes will increase under Bernie regime. His capital gains taxation increases made me spit out my beverage reading through it's so preposterous.

 

[Bastiat's The Law]

I'll make $106,000 this year. I currently pay right at $80/week for medical. My medical deductible is $5,000. Not great, but not terrible. So that comes out to $9,160 a year assuming that I pay the full deductible, which I probably will. That's not including my co-pays or anything.

With an increase in my taxes by 2.2% for his healthcare plan, that'll be an extra $2,332 a year, or about $45 a week, out of my paycheck. After that, I get healthcare with no premium, no deductible, and no co-pay. So my taxes would increase, but over the course of the year I'll save $6,828. That ain't bad.

If you believe that your tax burden will actually decrease under comrade Bernie I got some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you.

 

[Bastiat's The Law]

I don't think you could be more condescending if you tried, but that's okay. I forgive you.

Well stupidity is dangerous. Stupid ideologies backed up by the force of government doubly so. I really wish I wasn't put into the position of caring about your views. I'd like nothing better than you Bernie bots to go somewhere and live in your communes with your shared toilet facilities, political correctness cultism, shared spouses, and whatever else you desire. Of course that would mean that your tribe would be the sole beneficiaries of your own destructive behavior so that has no chance in hell of happening.

"If you're in my wallet, you're on my mind."

 

[donnay]

Bernie's message "free students loans" is resonating across the country--lots of people are saddled with student loans and high interest rates that they mortgaged themselves into oblivion.

Of course they must have failed basic mathematics because ultimately they will pay for it somewhere down the road.

Like George Carlin said, "It's called the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it."

 

[TheTexan]

Nobodies taxes would fucking increase.

Nobody has ever successfully extracted more than 20% of GDP from the USA.

In the 1900's noone thought we would ever get close to 5% but we did. This is America -- we can do anything we put our mind to.

 

[ShaneEnochs]

Well stupidity is dangerous. Stupid ideologies backed up by the force of government doubly so. I really wish I wasn't put into the position of caring about your views. I'd like nothing better than you Bernie bots to go somewhere and live in your communes with your shared toilet facilities, political correctness cultism, shared spouses, and whatever else you desire. Of course that would mean that your tribe would be the sole beneficiaries of your own destructive behavior so that has no chance in hell of happening.

"If you're in my wallet, you're on my mind."

You're so full of shit. We have real world examples where his proposals exist and work. What country can you point to that has your ideologies? There are none, because your ideas are ridiculously naive in the modern era. You're a person who was born two hundred years too late to have your social darwinian utopia. Countries are judged by how they treat their lowest members, so thankfully your reckless ideas will never come to be.

 

[idiom]

In the 1900's noone thought we would ever get close to 5% but we did. This is America -- we can do anything we put our mind to.

No one had tried to get to 5%. The government has tried to get past 20% several times. The tax base just shrinks away.

 

[LittleLightShining]

I hate to admit it, but as much as I was hopeful in 2012 for a breakthrough for Ron based on the great campaign ads and grassroots support, it seems like Bernie Sanders's message is gaining more traction by democratic and independent voters. Is it because of the "FREE STUFF" message he's espousing?

Why was it than Ron was considered "crazy" for his extreme views on role of government but socialist Bernie is being embraced like wildfire?

People are already getting "free stuff" and are fully enmeshed in the system. More so now than any other. Bernie's isn't selling anything new.
He's taking what already exists to the next level, which he envisions to improve the quality of life for the majority of Americans.

Ron was "crazy" because people are already getting "free stuff" and are fully enmeshed in the system. His "smaller government" message was too scary to people (which does not necessarily make them weak).

Put it another way: how many Ron Paul supporters do you think support Bernie Sanders today,

The overlap is significant.

and how many people who were against Ron Paul/support Bernie Sanders?

Way more. But I think had Ron supporters engaged in more outreach to the left it would be pretty close to the same.

Especially young voters. I saw a disturbing newscast that interviewed students supporting Bernie Sanders, and one student said, "Bernie Sanders was not a successful candidate before because he didn't have a generation like us."

*Shudders*

That doesn't disturb me at all. Gives me way more hope than Bernie.

 

[AuH20]

Bernie just wants to raid the treasury for his own reasons. It doesn't make him different from any lobbyist.

Ultimately, who watches Robin Hood? Who decides what is fair and just? The mob?

 

[AuH20]

You're so full of shit. We have real world examples where his proposals exist and work. What country can you point to that has your ideologies? There are none, because your ideas are ridiculously naive in the modern era. You're a person who was born two hundred years too late to have your social darwinian utopia. Countries are judged by how they treat their lowest members, so thankfully your reckless ideas will never come to be.

Not in a country of this size and with such profound cultural differences. Bernie, while his intentions may be noble, is simply paving a road to further misery.

 

[Okie RP fan]

Why are Bernie's policies being defended here?

Now I see how far this forum has truly fallen. This goes beyond being open to ideas, etc. that we preach. Bernie is the Socialist die that was cast by TPTB and it's clear his intent is to counter everything Ron Paul's movements did years past. How is that not obvious to everyone else?

He's copied so many aspects of Ron Paul's campaign it's not even funny. The only difference is that Ron Paul's following actually understood economics to the basic core. Bernie's doesn't and won't. They're all mooching losers who want "Free things" that the rest of us will have to pay for.

Tax Wall Street? Sure, go for it, then watch those companies leave to other countries. It's been happening for decades, is still happening, and will only quicken under a Bernie regime. After that happens, the actual workers in this country will be left with the burden while all of the mindless soma induced bots live off of welfare and receive "free" secondary indoctrination. Then they'll protest once a week and riot that someone said something politically incorrect or made them actually pay for a service, at which point the gestapo will be in to round up and black bag the so called guilty parties.

Sound crazy? Maybe it is… But I've read too many and seen too many historical documents, texts, videos, speeches, novels, movies, etc. that indicate this is our future under Bernie (or anyone for that matter).

The question is and always has been - how fast will we reach that point? Fast, or slow?

So, back in response to those defending Bernie, GTFO seriously. I didn't come on this forum years ago to be preached at and seen minds changed in favor of the policies we've so vehemently rallied against for the sake of individual liberty and common sense. There are plenty of other places for you t go circle jerk with socialists and leftists.

One last thing: I should add that Bernie will only expand the current rigged system to it's full potential. Of course the groundwork has been laid for decades, but we've reached a point that the endgame is nigh. Some argue it's already here.

Yay!

 

[ShaneEnochs]

Why are Bernie's policies being defended here?

Now I see how far this forum has truly fallen. This goes beyond being open to ideas, etc. that we preach. Bernie is the Socialist die that was cast by TPTB and it's clear his intent is to counter everything Ron Paul's movements did years past. How is that not obvious to everyone else?

He's copied so many aspects of Ron Paul's campaign it's not even funny. The only difference is that Ron Paul's following actually understood economics to the basic core. Bernie's doesn't and won't. They're all mooching losers who want "Free things" that the rest of us will have to pay for.

Tax Wall Street? Sure, go for it, then watch those companies leave to other countries. It's been happening for decades, is still happening, and will only quicken under a Bernie regime. After that happens, the actual workers in this country will be left with the burden while all of the mindless soma induced bots live off of welfare and receive "free" secondary indoctrination. Then they'll protest once a week and riot that someone said something politically incorrect or made them actually pay for a service, at which point the gestapo will be in to round up and black bag the so called guilty parties.

Sound crazy? Maybe it is… But I've read too many and seen too many historical documents, texts, videos, speeches, novels, movies, etc. that indicate this is our future under Bernie (or anyone for that matter).

The question is and always has been - how fast will we reach that point? Fast, or slow?

So, back in response to those defending Bernie, GTFO seriously. I didn't come on this forum years ago to be preached at and seen minds changed in favor of the policies we've so vehemently rallied against for the sake of individual liberty and common sense. There are plenty of other places for you t go circle jerk with socialists and leftists.

One last thing: I should add that Bernie will only expand the current rigged system to it's full potential. Of course the groundwork has been laid for decades, but we've reached a point that the endgame is nigh. Some argue it's already here.

Yay!

You realize that it's not just low income "moochers", as you call them, that supports him, right? There are tons of middle class voters (including myself) that supports him. His proposals would benefit people at my income level as well.

 

[Crashland]

I don't agree with ShaneEnochs on pretty much anything in this thread, but this is a good example of what some in the liberty movement are just having a real hard time swallowing. The hardcore libertarian movement, or at least for economic liberty, is much smaller than many here were lead to believe, and this was true even during the height of Ron's campaign in 2012.

 

[Cabal]

Why are Bernie's policies being defended here?

Because some leftist feels the need to defend their support of a state socialist authoritarian and absurdly parade it around as if it were in any way aligned with a position of liberty.

 

[idiom]

You realize that it's not just low income "moochers", as you call them, that supports him, right? There are tons of middle class voters (including myself) that supports him. His proposals would benefit people at my income level as well.

Mostly his proposals fail to address the bleeding obvious problems that have been solved in other countries where similar policies have been implemented. Without addressing those problems his policies will just make things worse.

Plenty of countries have socialized healthcare. In the US it will turn out like the VA writ large because the fraud hasn't been addressed.

 

[LittleLightShining]

#LetItBern

So, back in response to those defending Bernie, GTFO seriously. I didn't come on this forum years ago to be preached at and seen minds changed in favor of the policies we've so vehemently rallied against for the sake of individual liberty and common sense. There are plenty of other places for you t go circle jerk with socialists and leftists.

One last thing: I should add that Bernie will only expand the current rigged system to it's full potential. Of course the groundwork has been laid for decades, but we've reached a point that the endgame is nigh. Some argue it's already here.

Yay!

And therein lies the problem with the liberty "movement".

I came on this forum years ago as a leftist to learn what I could about this guy, Ron Paul, who was talking about the Federal Reserve and wanted to end the wars. The more I learned the more zealous I became. Ron was the total package. I tainted myself by getting involved with the GOP to get Republicans to support Ron. I threw a frickin tea party to spread the word about Ron and educate people about the Federal Reserve, co-operative banking, the 10th Amendment... I personally converted more people than I can count. ON ISSUES. WITH PEOPLE. WHO VOTED.

I don't even care if you vote. More will change based on SCOTUS than with whoever is elected. However, I do believe that by turning their noses away from "socialists" and "leftists" the "liberty movement" is wasting an opportunity to share the non-aggression principle with the voters most likely to embrace it.