in tax debate, need help.

[garrettwombat]

SOL yuo may want to read this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_the_United_States

Also the United States Code which is a consolidation of laws specifically outlines income tax

You can elect not to pay taxes but that is evasion and eventually you will go to jail. Al Capone thought he was untouchable but he forgot one thing to pay his taxes. Guess what he went to jail not for all the other illegal activities but for taxes.

debating if there is a law requiring you to pay an income tax

aside from being unconstitutional as an argument

 

[Chester Copperpot]

YOu definitely cannot go to wikipedia to get accurate information on a topic like this.

 

[berrybunches]

Taxes go against the idea of liberty because you are allowing the government to tell you how much of your own money you are legally entitled to. This is giving the government complete control and power over the fruits of your labor.

Edit: what exactly about taxes are you debating anyway? Would help to know lol

 

[garrettwombat]

sorry, whether there is a law or not...

 

[EndTheFed]

Get the video by Arron Russo

America: Freedom to Fascism

http://www.freedomtofascism.com/

It tells all about it and the history of the income tax.

You can also see it online but having the video (quality wise) is better

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M19jzF8AwEA

 

[jjank11]

Well there is no law to pay income tax unless you willing sign your tax form when you start to work. You are not required by law to sign the forms either and if a company cites that they fired you or did not hire you for that reason you can sue them, i believe, since there is no law that gives them the authority to fire anyone over that issue.

So the moral of the story is to not sign your tax forms. If they ask why you do not you can give them an affidavit telling why.

Federal Income Tax as it stands now is completely against the law and unconstitutional.

If you want a great source for this issue you can go to this link, it is very exhaustive.
www.originalintent.org/fedincometax.shtml

Also, i would check our Aaron Russo's "America: Freedom to Fascism" or a movie called "Zeitgeist". Some of the content in the movies is not for the faint of heart. Just be warned
www.freedomtofascism.com
zeitgeistmovie.com

If you find the message compelling and factual then go spread the word, especially "Freedom to Fascism".

Good Luck

 

[Mr. White]

Freedom to fascism is a nice bit of propaganda. If you're debating whether you HAVE to pay them, give up because you do. If you're debating whether it's RIGHT that you have to pay them, that's an argument you can win.

 

[berrybunches]

Well there is no law to pay income tax unless you willing sign your tax form when you start to work. You are not required by law to sign the forms either and if a company cites that they fired you or did not hire you for that reason you can sue them, i believe, since there is no law that gives them the authority to fire anyone over that issue.

So you can really just not sign tax forms to get out of paying and they can not garnish your wages? Really?

and what if you are self employed?

 

[Edu]

It's actually a jurisdiction issue. The "US codes" (which are not law, just codified laws and RULES mostly applying to government entities) only apply to things the government creates, owns and has jurisdiction over.

Did the sovereign people give the government jurisdiction over them? Hell no! No one is that stupid! (well, they are now)

The constitution restricts the government from doing that. They have never had the people's permission to directly tax them, never. Indirect, OK.

My oh my how people have forgotten about why we broke away from the king. Tell them to get a clue about what country they are living in!

Basically if you are under their jurisdiction then you better go find out why.

 

[Mr. White]

So you can really just not sign tax forms to get out of paying and they can not garnish your wages? Really?

and what if you are self employed?

Don't listen to a word he says. Vast majority of employment is "at will" Which means the employer can fire you....at will. Any reasonably legitimate paying job will let you go if it looks like you aren't paying income taxes. I believe that their is a default garnishment assumption as well.

As for self-employment... good luck, you can stay under the radar, but the second the IRS finds out you owe back taxes, your business will grind to a screeching halt fast than you can say audit.

 

[Paul10]

...

 

[Mr. White]

It's actually a jurisdiction issue. The "US codes" (which are not law, just codified laws and RULES mostly applying to government entities) only apply to things the government creates, owns and has jurisdiction over.

Did the sovereign people give the government jurisdiction over them? Hell no! No one is that stupid! (well, they are now)

The constitution restricts the government from doing that. They have never had the people's permission to directly tax them, never. Indirect, OK.

My oh my how people have forgotten about why we broke away from the king. Tell them to get a clue about what country they are living in!

Basically if you are under their jurisdiction then you better go find out why.

I assure you the United States Code is indeed law... the Code of Federal Regulations are your agency rules... As for the "soverign people" They gave them over when they and their represntatives did that whole "we the people in order to form a more perfect union" bit...

 

[Paul10]

...

 

[berrybunches]

Wesley Snipes didn't pay his for a few years. He owes millions. It went to court, was honest in his reasoning and got 0 jail time. I think he has to pay it back tho. Not sure.

 

[rvkpa]

There is a $5000 dollar penalty for Frivolous Claims in the IRS code. This is one of the specifically enumerated friovlous claims. It sucks, but you live here so you gotta follow their rules.

 

[randolphus maximus]

debating if there is a law requiring you to pay an income tax

aside from being unconstitutional as an argument

Well whether it's unconstitutional or not, one thing that is for sure is that the way the IRS COLLECTS the tax is unconstitutional. That is something that cannot be argued. There was a book that came out a number of years ago by Senator William Roth (for whom the ROTH IRA is named after) called "The Power to Destroy" and if you read that thing it will piss you off more than anything.

It does make you wonder about how far our country has gotten away from our roots when slaves, at the most, would have to give 10% of the fruits of their labor to their masters. We work half the year now to pay our "fair shair" to the government.

And also, wasn't our country founded on a tax rebellion? Wasn't it fashionable to tar and feather the tax collectors? I'm not advocating violence but in 200 years, we've fallen pretty far off the mark from what the founding fathers envisioned a free society to be.

 

[humanic]

THEFY BY DECEPTION by Larken Rose
http://www.theft-by-deception.com/ (Free PDF download of all information presented in the film)
Watch it on Google Video

"The product of years of exhaustive research and development, Theft By Deception clearly shows how the current Federal Income Tax law and its legislative history never intended to tax the average American’s domestically earned income.

Combining 3-D animations with a methodical, step-by-step approach, Theft By Deception will unravel the complicated tax law to reveal the very limited nature of the federal income tax. The evidence paints a clear picture that agents of the United States government orchestrated, executed, and then attempted to cover up the most monumental financial fraud in history."

 

[ionlyknowy]

Well there is no law to pay income tax unless you willing sign your tax form when you start to work. You are not required by law to sign the forms either and if a company cites that they fired you or did not hire you for that reason you can sue them, i believe, since there is no law that gives them the authority to fire anyone over that issue.

So the moral of the story is to not sign your tax forms. If they ask why you do not you can give them an affidavit telling why.

Federal Income Tax as it stands now is completely against the law and unconstitutional.

If you want a great source for this issue you can go to this link, it is very exhaustive.
www.originalintent.org/fedincometax.shtml

Also, i would check our Aaron Russo's "America: Freedom to Fascism" or a movie called "Zeitgeist". Some of the content in the movies is not for the faint of heart. Just be warned
www.freedomtofascism.com
zeitgeistmovie.com

If you find the message compelling and factual then go spread the word, especially "Freedom to Fascism".

Good Luck

says the man with 2 posts... all from this thread... lol..

 

[ionlyknowy]

General Rule

As a result of the delay caused by those who have abused the judicial system, Congress codified certain penalties. Under Section 6673(a)(1), when a taxpayer pursues an action in the Tax Court and the Court determines that either:
(1) the taxpayer instituted or maintained litigation in the Court primarily for delay;
(2) a taxpayer's litigating position is frivolous or groundless; or
(3) the taxpayer unreasonably failed to pursue administrative remedies before pursuing judicial relief in the Court, the Court may impose a penalty of up to $25,000.[FN1]

Sanction Not Limited to Tax Protestors

Although liability for the penalty is usually imposed upon “tax protestors” who raise frivolous arguments because of their basic disagreement over whether there should be tax laws or whether there should be tax laws which recognize special exceptions for certain taxpayers, the penalty can also be imposed for frivolous actions even without a showing that a particular taxpayer had such motivation. In the Golub case, for example, the Tax Court imposed a $10,000 sanction after it determined that a CPA used the Tax Court as a forum for arguing that certain persons named as defendants in his previous unsuccessful lawsuits had wronged him.[FN8]
26 USCS § 6673

 

[ionlyknowy]

There is a $5000 dollar penalty for Frivolous Claims in the IRS code. This is one of the specifically enumerated friovlous claims. It sucks, but you live here so you gotta follow their rules.

You are correct but it is $25,000
Here is the cite to the Internal Revenue Code
26 USCS § 6673

It allows the govt. to move for a summary judgment on you before you even see a jury. They will now invoke this code, deem your arguments as "tax protest" and therefore, frivolous then the judge will then fine you and then game over.

Try it, and come back here and tell us how it goes..