free.alive
Member
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2007
- Messages
- 1,217
I admit what I wrote was pretty long, but those of you still think my reasoning is based on some sort of fear obviously didn't read the whole thing.
A couple of you think that because I acknowledge that Obama IS frightful and a disaster for this country, while McCain will probably be just very bad and a paced escalation of more-of-the-same, that this means that I support a lesser evil because of fear. This is the same argument Republi-hacks used against many of us who bothered to talk to them when they said it was that we supported a new 9/11 investigation that proved we were truthers. I think there's some rhetorical name for this type of fallacy, but I forget it.
Thinking about it again, I guess I could sum it up in the idea that the only strategically valuable position here is to whatever we do (1) as a movement, and - the crucial step - (2) we take credit for it. And I don't mean online.
We would have considerable power (and make the greatest moral argument and have the most thought-provoking impact) if say 30% of us who caucused or voted in primaries got active in the local parties, made the difference in local and state races - but then vehemently, consistently and as a group REFUSED to support McCain because of who he is, what he stands for and what he'll do.
Instead, we have probably the 1%-5% who got it, picked ourselves up after we got called 'motherfucker,' saw that there was an opportunity to accomplish something if we acted with courage and acted together, and then we got busy in the party. Now, we are an easily-marginalized few, who (and this is what is happening) are either succumbing to vote for McCain, refusing to help while damning themselves within that organization, or are simply lying about who they are voting for because there is no constructive way to deal with it honestly and have an effect.
So, my argument follows, although it's a bit late, we may still be able to gain power as a bloc, at least in swing states, if a mass of Ron Paul supporters were what put McCain over the edge AND TOOK CREDIT FOR IT. And again, we can't take any valuable credit for voting for Baldwin, etc. online or within the party by proxy of Ron Paul's insistence he won't support McCain and instead will vote for Baldwin.
What will that effect in the county parties? And don't allow yourself to be fooled into thinking that they're not the greatest locus of power in the GOP. State-by-state, the GOP is most often organized as a bottom-up organization, and the power is in the precinct chairmen - if they're united.
However many of you vote for Baldwin, it's impossible for their to be any effect on the party unless you're active locally in the GOP and are manyin number who openly aren't voting for McCain. In my county there are maybe 20 of us - and we get lost in the hordes, although we're involved enough that the key people all know who we are and that we have organizational power. For instance, we've gotten reports that existing party leadership and the people who are running for new leadership realize that whoever we support will be who wins. Many of them fear us so much they think we're far more organized than we are. I love this!
But anyway, the overall point is that we should vote as a bloc, with a strategic purpose. If you were able to get delegates elected at a convention when you were grossly in the minority, then you understand the power of voting this way.
So -
(1) it's too late, in most cases, to make an impact by openly not supporting McCain en masse - because most of you didn't do the hard work and get involved in the party where your voice would have an impact. In fact, many of you will remain in third-party la-la land and never make any difference for the cause of liberty despite your revolutionary talk.
(2) it's not too late to accrue some power locally, but unfortunately the only way to do this is to make the difference as a group and get McCain elected. Therefore, in this action the strategic value of your vote is greater than its moral value, again because voting by itself is such a weak political action, done in private and gains you no power.
A couple of you think that because I acknowledge that Obama IS frightful and a disaster for this country, while McCain will probably be just very bad and a paced escalation of more-of-the-same, that this means that I support a lesser evil because of fear. This is the same argument Republi-hacks used against many of us who bothered to talk to them when they said it was that we supported a new 9/11 investigation that proved we were truthers. I think there's some rhetorical name for this type of fallacy, but I forget it.
Thinking about it again, I guess I could sum it up in the idea that the only strategically valuable position here is to whatever we do (1) as a movement, and - the crucial step - (2) we take credit for it. And I don't mean online.
We would have considerable power (and make the greatest moral argument and have the most thought-provoking impact) if say 30% of us who caucused or voted in primaries got active in the local parties, made the difference in local and state races - but then vehemently, consistently and as a group REFUSED to support McCain because of who he is, what he stands for and what he'll do.
Instead, we have probably the 1%-5% who got it, picked ourselves up after we got called 'motherfucker,' saw that there was an opportunity to accomplish something if we acted with courage and acted together, and then we got busy in the party. Now, we are an easily-marginalized few, who (and this is what is happening) are either succumbing to vote for McCain, refusing to help while damning themselves within that organization, or are simply lying about who they are voting for because there is no constructive way to deal with it honestly and have an effect.
So, my argument follows, although it's a bit late, we may still be able to gain power as a bloc, at least in swing states, if a mass of Ron Paul supporters were what put McCain over the edge AND TOOK CREDIT FOR IT. And again, we can't take any valuable credit for voting for Baldwin, etc. online or within the party by proxy of Ron Paul's insistence he won't support McCain and instead will vote for Baldwin.
What will that effect in the county parties? And don't allow yourself to be fooled into thinking that they're not the greatest locus of power in the GOP. State-by-state, the GOP is most often organized as a bottom-up organization, and the power is in the precinct chairmen - if they're united.
However many of you vote for Baldwin, it's impossible for their to be any effect on the party unless you're active locally in the GOP and are manyin number who openly aren't voting for McCain. In my county there are maybe 20 of us - and we get lost in the hordes, although we're involved enough that the key people all know who we are and that we have organizational power. For instance, we've gotten reports that existing party leadership and the people who are running for new leadership realize that whoever we support will be who wins. Many of them fear us so much they think we're far more organized than we are. I love this!
But anyway, the overall point is that we should vote as a bloc, with a strategic purpose. If you were able to get delegates elected at a convention when you were grossly in the minority, then you understand the power of voting this way.
So -
(1) it's too late, in most cases, to make an impact by openly not supporting McCain en masse - because most of you didn't do the hard work and get involved in the party where your voice would have an impact. In fact, many of you will remain in third-party la-la land and never make any difference for the cause of liberty despite your revolutionary talk.
(2) it's not too late to accrue some power locally, but unfortunately the only way to do this is to make the difference as a group and get McCain elected. Therefore, in this action the strategic value of your vote is greater than its moral value, again because voting by itself is such a weak political action, done in private and gains you no power.
Last edited:
