IMPORTANT! Why Ron Paul Must NEVER Run as an Independent.

Bilgefisher said:
Same here, but I simply don't get why everyone thinks he'll run independent. You support the man because he is honest and sticks to his guns. Then why in the hell do you think he will go against what he has said 100 times. He will not run as an independent. Perhaps I missed something here, but he seems to have spelled it out pretty clearly.
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I guess it's just hope. I'm hoping for that 1% chance that he does. I know that's unlikely, but it would be cool if he did.
 
skiingff said:
Look, I've been a member of the Libertarian Party for 2 years. Way before I even knew who Ron Paul was. I, too, won't vote for a candidate unless I agree with his or her general philosophy.

However, I realize the Libertarian Party is mostly an educational organization, and doesn't run advertisements to expand its base, etc. The 2 main parties, however, have hundreds of PACs and organizations dedicated to funding and electing their respective candidates.

I will remain a member of the LP for principle, but until we take over the Republican Party and change the election laws, the laws will always be biased against 3rd parties and make it impractical to run as one.

That's why we need to register R and do our part to change the party. The party is dying, the older neocons won't be here forever, and it'll be wide open for the taking.

That's my .02
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Unfortunately the neocons are not the only problem in the GOP. The "Christian Conservative" and "Family Values" people are incredibly strong and basically have a stranglehold on the party, and will for decades to come. They will never, ever accept a candidate who wants to legalize drugs, period. It will never, ever happen. You are suggesting that we fight a battle that can never be won. Read Sun Tzu. All battles are won or lost before they are ever fought. We must choose fights we can WIN, and battlefields where we are not at such a huge disadvantage from the start.

The country is literally starving for an independent choice.
 
I have no problem with an independent run, or those who are promoting it. My only question for you folks is what will you do after this election is over? Randy, through all his fire spitting wording, is absolutely right. A third party solution in this country will not work, and Ron Paul knows this. The only reason he would consider doing it is to try to expand the base of freedom fighters for the future.

Those who are saying this isn't a Republican Revolution are also absolutely correct! It's not! Taking over that party is a means to keep our movement going. It has nothing to do with party loyalty.
 
We have 6 months of primaries and caucuses ahead. Ron Paul is not going to give up his House seat to run 3rd party or as an independent. Give it up.
 
MayTheRonBeWithYou said:
Unfortunately the neocons are not the only problem in the GOP. The "Christian Conservative" and "Family Values" people are incredibly strong and basically have a stranglehold on the party, and will for decades to come. They will never, ever accept a candidate who wants to legalize drugs, period. It will never, ever happen. You are suggesting that we fight a battle that can never be won. Read Sun Tzu. All battles are won or lost before they are ever fought. We must choose fights we can WIN, and battlefields where we are not at such a huge disadvantage from the start.

The country is literally starving for an independent choice.
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I live in liberal Northern Virginia. We can easily take over the GOP here.

For more conservative areas, yes, it will take some time and effort, but in order to change the system you must first infiltrate it. Change comes from within.

The GOP is a dying breed, and I feel Ron Paul realizes this. Rand Paul (Ron Paul's son) specifically said at one rally that we could take over the GOP if we just attended the poorly-attended local meetings. I believe this.

Again, I don't mind being in the LP and being a non-affiliated voter (we don't have voter affiliations in Virginia), but I will also fight to get our local Ron Paul Republicans support they deserve.
 
literatim said:
We have 6 months of primaries and caucuses ahead. Ron Paul is not going to give up his House seat to run 3rd party or as an independent. Give it up.
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The same tired lies. SHOW EVIDENCE that Ron cannot run iNDY and keep his seat.

WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE???
 
Bilgefisher said:
Same here, but I simply don't get why everyone thinks he'll run independent. You support the man because he is honest and sticks to his guns. Then why in the hell do you think he will go against what he has said 100 times. He will not run as an independent. Perhaps I missed something here, but he seems to have spelled it out pretty clearly.
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I don't think that's an accurate characterization of his comments on the matter.
 
That's just too weird.

literatim said:
MayTheRonBeWithYou, crawl back into the hole you came out of, please.
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It would be funny, if it weren't so sad.

BTW, I see you got out your concordance to dazzle us with your liberty bible verses. I can see where you'd have a problem with a free thinker.:cool:

"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it." -Buddha
 
If Ron Paul doesn't get the nomination, the best thing that can happen for this country is if the GOP collapses utterly.

From the beginning, the Republican Party is the party of Great Awakening progressives like Huckabee. The Republican party was formed out of crazy militarists out of the Henry Clay mold, and now McCain. The Republican party is the party of subsidies, tariffs, centralization of power, and corporate favoritism.

The ONLY time the Republican party could have been considered pro-liberty was after the FDR Democrats pushed through the New Deal, forcing all the sane politicians the other way. They never overturned the New Deal, and now, they won't even get rid of the DoE. Hell, the government has never EVER expanded at the rate it did during the Republican-dominated congress with Dubya. This should have been predictable, but it turns out most Republicans (voters) are dupes who think they control this beast.

The Republican party is now nearly completely comprised of crazy pro-war authoritarians who use every dirty trick in the book to keep their power. They continue to dangle liberty in front of your nose in order to keep the party alive. Why you want to be fooled like this is beyond me, maybe you bought into the whole "OMG, the Democrats are going to destroy America!" BS. What's destroying America is self-delusion by the voters and divide & conquer tactics by the elite. However, it all falls apart if there aren't two establishment parties.

So you know what? SCREW THE REPUBLICAN PARTY!
 
Ball said:
If Ron Paul doesn't get the nomination, the best thing that can happen for this country is if the GOP collapses utterly.

From the beginning, the Republican Party is the party of Great Awakening progressives like Huckabee. The Republican party was formed out of crazy militarists out of the Henry Clay mold, and now McCain. The Republican party is the party of subsidies, tariffs, centralization of power, and corporate favoritism.

The ONLY time the Republican party could have been considered pro-liberty was after the FDR Democrats pushed through the New Deal, forcing all the sane politicians the other way. They never overturned the New Deal, and now, they won't even get rid of the DoE. Hell, the government has never EVER expanded at the rate it did during the Republican-dominated congress with Dubya. This should have been predictable, but it turns out most Republicans (voters) are dupes who think they control this beast.

The Republican party is now nearly completely comprised of crazy pro-war authoritarians who use every dirty trick in the book to keep their power. They continue to dangle liberty in front of your nose in order to keep the party alive. Why you want to be fooled like this is beyond me, maybe you bought into the whole "OMG, the Democrats are going to destroy America!" BS. What's destroying America is self-delusion by the voters and divide & conquer tactics by the elite. However, it all falls apart if there aren't two establishment parties.

So you know what? SCREW THE REPUBLICAN PARTY!
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Yeah. I mean, the big government tyrant Lincoln was the first Republican President.
 
Ball said:
If Ron Paul doesn't get the nomination, the best thing that can happen for this country is if the GOP collapses utterly.

From the beginning, the Republican Party is the party of Great Awakening progressives like Huckabee. The Republican party was formed out of crazy militarists out of the Henry Clay mold, and now McCain. The Republican party is the party of subsidies, tariffs, centralization of power, and corporate favoritism.

The ONLY time the Republican party could have been considered pro-liberty was after the FDR Democrats pushed through the New Deal, forcing all the sane politicians the other way. They never overturned the New Deal, and now, they won't even get rid of the DoE. Hell, the government has never EVER expanded at the rate it did during the Republican-dominated congress with Dubya. This should have been predictable, but it turns out most Republicans (voters) are dupes who think they control this beast.

The Republican party is now nearly completely comprised of crazy pro-war authoritarians who use every dirty trick in the book to keep their power. They continue to dangle liberty in front of your nose in order to keep the party alive. Why you want to be fooled like this is beyond me, maybe you bought into the whole "OMG, the Democrats are going to destroy America!" BS. What's destroying America is self-delusion by the voters and divide & conquer tactics by the elite. However, it all falls apart if there aren't two establishment parties.

So you know what? SCREW THE REPUBLICAN PARTY!
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You make many good points, but you are still completely missing the point. You can not sit back and wait for the system to collapse and all the cards to fall into place like how it happens in your dreams and imagination. It won't happen. You have to make it happen with action. So what are you going to do??
 
The GOP is already a well established force. The best thing to do it to fix it. Become active in your GOP. It is broken right now, but it will probably be easier to fix it than to start our own party. Currently, we are making a lot of progress in the GOP (it seems). And as long as we are continuing to advance within the party, I see no reason to go 3rd party and have to start all over. Right now we are getting 5-15% or more of the republican's support for Paul. I'd say that is pretty good. considering we started with practically nothing. Currently, the best way to advance our ideas is through the republican party. If things change in the future, then we can revamp. but right now 3rd party would be a mistake.

(not saying i won't write him in anyway, but him actually declaring a 3rd party run will hurt him. And as a republican congressman it wouldn't look to good either.)
 
dees2003 said:
The GOP is already a well established force. The best thing to do it to fix it. Become active in your GOP. It is broken right now, but it will probably be easier to fix it than to start our own party. Currently, we are making a lot of progress in the GOP (it seems). And as long as we are continuing to advance within the party, I see no reason to go 3rd party and have to start all over. Right now we are getting 5-15% or more of the republican's support for Paul. I'd say that is pretty good. considering we started with practically nothing. Currently, the best way to advance our ideas is through the republican party. If things change in the future, then we can revamp. but right now 3rd party would be a mistake.

(not saying i won't write him in anyway, but him actually declaring a 3rd party run will hurt him. And as a republican congressman it wouldn't look to good either.)
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Absolutely. It will be incredibly easy to do this, compared to other avenues. I don't want to spell out the details of what exactly we're up to in my county, but I have to say it will not be hard at all to do this starting at a local level. And like someone else already pointed out, most of the people who are currently involved are farkin' old! Not to be too morbid, but these people won't be around much longer! We can easilty step in & pick up the pieces.. AGAIN it has NOTHING to do with party loyalty, and EVERYTHING to do with using the tools already available to us to attain our goals. Why reinvent the wheel when we can simple improve upon it?
 
nullvalu said:
No offense man, but you sound pretty apathetic. I URGE you to take a little time and watch this video, it sealed my convictions to stand up and do something. G. Edward Griffin's analogy on apathy in this video is spot-on. Please watch it and let me know if you feel any different after viewing.. Big thanks to torchbearer for sharing this link with me yesterday.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6015291679758430958
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It's not apathy, is scared-shittedness. I can't have a family in this country once TSHTF.

My options are emigrate or take up arms. Since the search for the latter is an exercise in futility, I will be doing the former.
 
Mortikhi said:
It's not apathy, is scared-shittedness. I can't have a family in this country once TSHTF.

My options are emigrate or take up arms. Since the search for the latter is an exercise in futility, I will be doing the former.
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Please, you didn't watch that video I sent you. "Abandoning Ship" is a symptom of apathy. Please watch that video. This is a global problem. You can not run away. You can not hide. It will not solve the problem, and it will not make your life or your family's lives any better. I'm also raising a family, I have 3 kids under the age of 7. I know what you're feeling. But I'd rather fight for a better world for them than run away. Remember, as a father, your primary role is to teach leadership skills to your children. This may not necessarily be PC but it's true. What does the action of giving up teach your children?
 
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nullvalu said:
Please, you didn't watch that video I sent you. "Abandoning Ship" is a symptom of apathy. Please watch that video. This is a global problem. You can not run away. You can not hide. It will not solve the problem, and it will not make your life or your family's lives any better. I'm also raising a family, I have 3 kids under the age of 7. I know what you're feeling. But I'd rather fight for a better world for them than run away. Remember, as a father, your primary role is to teach leadership skills to your children. This may not necessarily be PC but it's true. What does the action of giving up teach your children?
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I can't watch the video now ( at work ) but if/when we leave, I will teach them that even a rat knows when to abandon a sinking ship.

By all means, stay here and keep getting taxed at 50% + whatever percentage it will take to keep social security afloat once the boomers retire.

On the way to work today, I was listening to NPR and how just a few thousand rebels were taking over a country in Africa to restore democracy. They are real men. We....well we are well-fed spineless sloths.
 
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