Immigration

[RJB]

In fact, he positively prohibited his disciples from using the sword to rule over others like the rulers of the nation

And for the record, I do not want to rule over anyone. I simply wish to be left alone, practice my rights,and live in an area where where I suffer neither excess crime or police. Mass immigration without assimilation does threaten that. I have seen it in formerly nice areas in L.A.

 

[Superfluous Man]

That was metaphorical and not a command that we all allow ourselves and our loved ones to be robbed and murdered.

It was not metaphorical. It was very literal and real, and the original audience of those words took them very seriously, and did follow him in suffering much persecution, including in some cases the death penalty.

Christ had a purpose in his death

Yes. And one purpose was to show us what he meant by, "take up your cross and follow me."

we have a duty to one another to defend eachother's rights.

Jesus also shows us the means by which we are to do that, and those by which we are not. Using the sword to rule over others so as to prevent future crimes by those we suspect will one day commit them is not his way.

 

[Superfluous Man]

And for the record, I do not want to rule over anyone.

You clearly do.

I simply wish to be left alone, practice my rights,and live in an area where where I suffer neither excess crime or police.

Then you should likewise leave others alone the same way you want to be left alone.

Mass immigration without assimilation does threaten that.

Notice how you say "threaten." Immigration and non-assimilation in themselves don't violate anyone's rights. And not all who immigrate without assimilating to whatever it is you want the government to require them to assimilate to (somehow all without ruling over them?) do the things you mean by excess crime. But you want to preempt future violations of rights by stopping people from doing acts that in themselves aren't violations of rights as some kind of pre-crime enforcement. This is to do what Jesus told his followers not to do in Matthew 20:25-26.

 

[dillo]

Jus soli needs to go

 

[Superfluous Man]

I'm not mixing up anything, you claimed that I was wrong when I said Christ commanded his Apostles not to use their swords to prevent his arrest because it was time for his sacrifice, this is that incident.

Go back and reread those posts. You brought up the Luke 22 passage, though you didn't cite the reference, and that was the passage I was talking about. Luke is not the only Gospel to relate the account of a disciple using the sword at that incident. But it is the one we were discussing.

 

[RJB]

You clearly do.

Oh FFS. You don't have the balls to answer my points that explain my reasoning, nor tell me where I disagree with God, yet you will tell me what I believe. Lol.


ETA. I made this response when he replied with just the reply above. He answered more shortly after in an edit, so I will reply to that separately.

 

[nobody's_hero]

Very good and absolutely. And the worst thing is it is happening already. The one size fits all codes that they think are needed in the urban cities are being forced on rural folks where they don't even apply. In this way they are forcing this failed culture of oppression on those of us who do not have these social cultural problems because of density. I also challenge someone to come up with just one example of how denser demographics and local urban governments are freer than rural demographics. It cannot be done. One is free, the other is self enslavement.

Oh believe me, I know. The city has been annexing bits of the county year by year, and I could throw a stone and hit the city limits sign. There's gonna be a mighty hell-raising if they move the signs again.

 

[nobody's_hero]

It isn't.

My first goal isn't to better my own lot by any means necessary, even if it means doing wrong to someone else. My first goal is to not wrong someone else, even if I think I could improve my lot by wronging them.

While I disagree with your prescription as a means of attaining that goal anyway, and think that allowing other people to do what they want as long as they aren't violating others' rights would end up benefiting me too in the end, that isn't my main goal.

Then you have an admirable goal, I'll give you that. Meanwhile you've been losing liberty day by day and by some miracle of inner peace, you don't seem to let it affect you.

For a lot of folks, it's starting to get under our skin.

 

[Swordsmyth]

When told to buy swords, the apostles showed Jesus they had two swords among them. Jesus said "That is enough." And they were not to protect anybody from immigrants. When Peter tried to use his sword on the Romans arresting Jesus, Jesus stopped him and healed the ear Peter cut.

The swords were to protect themselves and two was enough for right then so they did not have to rush out and buy more immediately because they were all together.
He stopped Peter because it was time for his sacrifice:

John
Chapter 18

10 Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.
11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?

"He who lives by the sword shall die by the sword."

https://www.biola.edu/blogs/good-bo...he-biblical-argument-for-gun-control-part-two

Defending yourself is not "living by the sword" and dying by the sword is not damnation.

Does he argue for protection?

A slap on the cheek is nothing and Christ's teachings on the mount were to those who were being groomed for leadership positions and had to set a special example they were not intended for the members at large:

[h=3]Matthew
Chapter 5[/h] 1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him

13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.


There is much there that applies to everyone but the extreme restrictions do not apply to everyone, this part for instance:

[h=3]Matthew
Chapter 6[/h]

25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.






He also commanded that the wicked be kept separate from the righteous and that certainly applies to those who would deprive us of our liberty:

[h=3]Matthew
Chapter 5[/h]

29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.



Those who preach suicide Christianity should consider this part:

[h=3]Matthew
Chapter 7[/h]

15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


Their doctrine does not bring good fruit, it brings evil fruit.



The sermon on the mount is also filled with simple instructions that are general and do not cover all of the details or exceptions.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Go back and reread those posts. You brought up the Luke 22 passage, though you didn't cite the reference, and that was the passage I was talking about. Luke is not the only Gospel to relate the account of a disciple using the sword at that incident. But it is the one we were discussing.

LOL


I brought up the events and I will use any of the accounts of them that I choose to prove my point, you can't disprove my point so you are trying to play lawyer and limit which sources I am allowed.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Notice how you say "threaten." Immigration and non-assimilation in themselves don't violate anyone's rights. And not all who immigrate without assimilating to whatever it is you want the government to require them to assimilate to (somehow all without ruling over them?) do the things you mean by excess crime. But you want to preempt future violations of rights by stopping people from doing acts that in themselves aren't violations of rights as some kind of pre-crime enforcement. This is to do what Jesus told his followers not to do in Matthew 20:25-26.

We have a right to limit immigration to defend against the threat and those who violate our limits do violate our rights.
We own our territory and we have a right to own it.

 

[Swordsmyth]

It was not metaphorical. It was very literal and real, and the original audience of those words took them very seriously, and did follow him in suffering much persecution, including in some cases the death penalty.

It was absolutely metaphorical or Christianity would require us all to get ourselves killed on purpose, it doesn't.
Those who suffered death for their faith may have been following his teachings and that led to their deaths but those who did not suffer death also followed his teachings.

Yes. And one purpose was to show us what he meant by, "take up your cross and follow me."

Only so far as to be willing to die rather than give up the faith.

Jesus also shows us the means by which we are to do that, and those by which we are not. Using the sword to rule over others so as to prevent future crimes by those we suspect will one day commit them is not his way.

Defending ourselves from those who violate our rights by invading our territory in violation of our limits is not "Using the sword to rule over others so as to prevent future crimes by those we suspect will one day commit them is not his way."

 

[Zippyjuan]

He also commanded that the wicked be kept separate from the righteous and that certainly applies to those who would deprive us of our liberty:

So Christians from Central America should be kept apart from the unrighteous here. Or are you claiming to be more righteous than they are?

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing,

"Judge not lest ye be judged! "

 

[Swordsmyth]

So Christians from Central America should be kept apart from the unrighteous.

If they can manage it.
Or if you want to volunteer to go help them manage it.

Or are you claiming to be more righteous than they are?

If they want socialism which will violate my rights then I am, I do not seek to go into their territory in violation of their rules and deprive them of their rights.

 

[RJB]

So Christians from Central America should be kept apart from the unrighteous.

What an emotion based argument.

If they overwhelmingly vote against the 2nd Amendment, see free speech as hate speech (depending on the latest sjw fads of course), and who don't think the US is socialist enough and that we should aspire to be like Venezuela or whatever other country they trashed and left behind, then yes.

 

[Zippyjuan]

If they can manage it.
Or if you want to volunteer to go help them manage it.



If they want socialism which will violate my rights then I am, I do not seek to go into their territory in violation of their rules and deprive them of their rights.

Socialism is actually very Christian.

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

 

[ATruepatriot]

Oh believe me, I know. The city has been annexing bits of the county year by year, and I could throw a stone and hit the city limits sign. There's gonna be a mighty hell-raising if they move the signs again.

My biggest problem is the one size fit's all codes they impose where they are not needed and make no sense. Like no camping in your vehicle ordinances where they would come out 50 miles to write up someone with 20 acres because they let someone park their RV and sleep in it overnight. Yet in the meantime in the Cities they have a huge homeless problem with everyone living in tents and crapping everywhere and not doing a damned thing about it. I have had them tell me that I could not have a spare refrigerator on my back porch because it's an eyesore, yet the nearest neighbor and public road is over a mile away and can't see my back porch. They don't understand or care that we don't have a store on every corner and have to stock up on food and need that to survive and get by. In this way the problems and city culture and mentality is being forced on rural folks without reason. I'm sick of ignorant laws that are passed in the city because of their screwed up mess being forced on us in the sticks even though they make absolutely no sense at all where we live. Those are just a couple examples... As you know there are hundreds.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Socialism is actually very Christian.

Where does it say there that the government should decide what to take from who and who to give it to?

Charity is Christian, Socialism is of the devil.

 

[Zippyjuan]

Where does it say there that the government should decide what to take from who and who to give it to?

Charity is Christian, Socialism is of the devil.

Where is that in the Bible?

Romans 13:6-7 English Standard Version (ESV)

6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. 7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+13:6-7&version=ESV

(the Bible has mixed messages on taxes and tax collectors)

 

[Swordsmyth]

Where is that in the Bible?

Thou shalt not steal.