I'm done making excuses for the State

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

For there is no better option that makes sense to me. Land ownership gives me the opportunity to raise my own food, build my own home, live peacefully without others trespassing on my property without recourse. A chance at liberty.

You are a terribly unimaginative being. I feel some sorrow in my heart for such people. Here I let Bastiat talk through his grave:

“Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all. We disapprove of state education. Then the socialists say that we are opposed to any education. We object to a state religion. Then the socialists say that we want no religion at all. We object to a state-enforced equality. Then they say that we are against equality. And so on, and so on. It is as if the socialists were to accuse us of not wanting persons to eat because we do not want the state to raise grain.”

Yes, you've all ready said you think Socialism is necessary to take money, property, and belongings from one individual to forcebly give to another. You are a socialist if you prescribe your belief to this -- it is only in what manner and propriety you wish to foist it upon society. You simply cannot fatham a free individual giving to help those in need, or that those in need would come together to form mutual aid societies, and other non-profit, charitable organizations. From this your lack of understanding history, is shown to be the culprit for your thought process. Do you also think Americans simply died on the streets prior to Herbert Hoover and FDR? This is such a comical belief system.

 

[Travlyr]

You are a terribly unimaginative being. I feel some sorrow in my heart for such people. Here I let Bastiat talk through his grave:



Yes, you've all ready said you think Socialism is necessary to take money, property, and belongings from one individual to forcebly give to another. You are a socialist if you prescribe your belief to this -- it is only in what manner and propriety you wish to foist it upon society. You simply cannot fatham a free individual giving to help those in need, or that those in need would come together to form mutual aid societies, and other non-profit, charitable organizations. From this your lack of understanding history, is shown to be the culprit for your thought process. Do you also think Americans simply died on the streets prior to Herbert Hoover and FDR? This is such a comical belief system.

Au contraire ... you misread me. There is no need to feel sorry for me. I no doubt live a much more free life than you. I take nothing from the government, I no longer have to toil daily, and I am surrounded by beautiful loving individuals and family. I understand liberty like you only dream of. I chose the name Travlyr because I've enjoyed leisurely crossing the country making friends, visiting friends and family on the coasts, and rafting in rivers across America. No doubt there is much more to see and do, yet I am satisfied with what I have already seen and done.

You read and believe what you read. I live and enjoy my life.

My only complaint is that counterfeiters have claimed control over my finances. When people again trade with each other with honest sound money, then I will have no more social issues at the forefront.

 

[A Son of Liberty]

So, to sum, you blissfully ignore the violence you advocate.

 

[Travlyr]

So, to sum, you blissfully ignore the violence you advocate.

And you advocate no better option.

 

[A Son of Liberty]

And you advocate no better option.

Well, yes I do. I advocate allowing free people to innovate and develop voluntary, non-violent solutions, in contrast to the command, centrally-dictated and coercive (inherently violent) solutions you demand.

 

[Travlyr]

Well, yes I do. I advocate allowing free people to innovate and develop voluntary, non-violent solutions, in contrast to the command, centrally-dictated and coercive (inherently violent) solutions you demand.

Then start a chip-in and advertise it in the New York Times.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Au contraire ... you misread me. There is no need to feel sorry for me. I no doubt live a much more free life than you. I take nothing from the government, I no longer have to toil daily, and I am surrounded by beautiful loving individuals and family. I understand liberty like you only dream of. I chose the name Travlyr because I've enjoyed leisurely crossing the country making friends, visiting friends and family on the coasts, and rafting in rivers across America. No doubt there is much more to see and do, yet I am satisfied with what I have already seen and done.

You read and believe what you read. I live and enjoy my life.

My only complaint is that counterfeiters have claimed control over my finances. When people again trade with each other with honest sound money, then I will have no more social issues at the forefront.

This is called "free range slavery". The slave does what is in the interests of the State because the State gives him just enough liberty to make him think he is free. It is the result of incremental usurpations of liberty not all at once, but over the span of many generations.

You toil(ed) throughout your life for worthless scraps of fiat money. You did honest business while the regime robbed you blind through inflation and taxation. (this is not an insult, btw...this happens to all of us except those who find a way to live "off the grid")

 

[A Son of Liberty]

Then start a chip-in and advertise it in the New York Times.

We note your consent.

 

[Travlyr]

This is called "free range slavery". The slave does what is in the interests of the State because the State gives him just enough liberty to make him think he is free. It is the result of incremental usurpations of liberty not all at once, but over the span of many generations.

You toil(ed) throughout your life for worthless scraps of fiat money. You did honest business while the regime robbed you blind through inflation and taxation. (this is not an insult, btw...this happens to all of us except those who find a way to live "off the grid")

No tags ... no labels. I toiled throughout my life for life's experience. I am sorry for you. You completely missed the point. Re-read the thread. I love my life, my friends, my family and my liberty.

 

[A Son of Liberty]

No tags ... no labels. I toiled throughout my life for life's experience. I am sorry for you. You completely missed the point. Re-read the thread. I love my life, my friends, my family and my liberty.

You advocate compulsory violence against others and yourself. You do not love your liberty.

 

[Travlyr]

You advocate compulsory violence against others and yourself. You do not love your liberty.

Explain.

 

[A Son of Liberty]

Explain.

Again?

 

[Travlyr]

Again?

Yes, you made a completely irrational statement about me without any evidence. Explain yourself or STFU.

 

[Working Poor]

I think the world economy needs to get on the 12 steps and the people or the world need to agree on no more than 3 laws. Don't kill or steal and mind your own business.

 

[A Son of Liberty]

Yes, you made a completely irrational statement about me without any evidence. Explain yourself or STFU.

Did I somehow misrepresent your position? You very clearly advocate a logically inconsistent position of compulsory violence against others and yourself, as you yourself have clearly stated in this thread:

I accept the fact that humans are social beings, and that while self-ownership is self-evident self-dependence is illusive. I personally have no problem with a small degree of socialism to facilitate helping the young, old, and indigent.

Liberty is the absence of unprovoked, compulsory physical and/or coercive violence.

"STFU".

 

[Travlyr]

I think the world economy needs to get on the 12 steps and the people or the world need to agree on no more than 3 laws. Don't kill or steal and mind your own business.

Certainly the best law I've ever heard is: "Do Unto Others As They Do Unto You." That would include all three of your laws. Even more than that the world economy currently is "controlled." That's what sucks. Economies just need to "happen" according to honest trade. A natural economy is much like Ron Paul Forums and the Internet in general. Say what you want to say, do what you do, and accept the consequences. Caveat Emptor. If you are honest, respectful, and provide value, then you'll keep your account and learn from your experiences. If not, then meet Cowlesy the BANHAMMER.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

No tags ... no labels. I toiled throughout my life for life's experience. I am sorry for you. You completely missed the point. Re-read the thread. I love my life, my friends, my family and my liberty.

No need to feel sorry. At least I know that I am a slave (for the time being). You have yet to realize it. "There are none so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free." -Goethe

 

[Travlyr]

Did I somehow misrepresent your position? You very clearly advocate a logically inconsistent position of compulsory violence against others and yourself, as you yourself have clearly stated in this thread:



Liberty is the absence of unprovoked, compulsory physical and/or coercive violence.

"STFU".

Yes, Son of Misunderstanding Liberty. You do misrepresent my position. I have compassion and empathy for others who may be able to use my help. Your perfect liberty is too selfish for me.

 

[Travlyr]

No need to feel sorry. At least I know that I am a slave (for the time being). You have yet to realize it. "There are none so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free." -Goethe

Like I said. I enjoy my life in spite of the fact that I have had to live my life while thieves consistently stole my inherent wealth. You, will have a much harder time if you do not recognize the culprit of your enslavement. It is not enslavement of the State. It is,

"Banking was conceived in iniquity and born in sin. Bankers own the Earth. Take it away from them but leave them the power to create money, and, with the flick of a pen, they will create enough money to buy it back again. Take this great power away from them and all great fortunes like mine will disappear and they ought to disappear, for then this would be a better and happier world to live in. But, if you want to continue to be the slave of the bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, then let the bankers continue to create money and control credit." - Sir Josiah Stamp, President, Bank of England (2nd richest man in England)

Win or Pay. Your choice.

 

[A Son of Liberty]

Yes, Son of Misunderstanding Liberty. You do misrepresent my position. I have compassion and empathy for others who may be able to use my help. Your perfect liberty is too selfish for me.

You don't say how I misrepresent your position. You make assertions, which are unsubstantiated positions, such as " you have compassion and empathy for others who may be able to use my help." Presumably you refer to the coercive power of the state as "your help". We've suffered far long enough under the compassion of the likes of "your help". The Great Society was sold under the same ad campaign, as was The New Deal.

In degree only do you differ from those great socialist sloganeers. You're "a little bit pregnant".