Illegal Immigration Poll

[fr33]

There should be an option in the poll to cut off welfare then open the border.

 

[alucard13mmfmj]

if anything, we need to get legal immigrants on the fast track to citizenship imo.. just so we can get more illegals into the legal process.

 

[Origanalist]

There should be an option in the poll to cut off welfare then open the border.

Sorry, no can do.

 

[VoluntaryAmerican]

Two psychopaths voted for this poll apparently.

 

[XTreat]

I dont like any of these options.

 

[erowe1]

Yes, there are. They're in the government. (sweet gig huh?)

Yeah, I'm familiar with them. I just thought those were the bad guys.

 

[whoisjohngalt]

Don't want "illegal aliens" here? Go do the jobs that they do, for the wages that they make, under the table. It's probably a more ethical existence than you have right now.

That's a lot easier said than done. Do you really think that employers will take the chance on an English speaking employee with a social security number if they want to pay someone under the table? Said person can go to authorities and report their illegal actions if things ever turn sour. Meanwhile they know that there is no chance of someone who isn't here legally and can't speak the language reporting them (not that anyone would listen if they did). I'm not saying it never happens because it certainly does, but to act like its as easy as being willing to work the same jobs for the same wages.... that's just wrong.

 

[Michelangelo]

For full disclosure I am an illegal immigrant.

That said I support open borders, but not open citizenship. We're not going to end the welfare state anytime soon, but it should be possible to make the system in such a way as to exclude us from being able to access welfare programs. I know that right now illegal aliens are, with the Amish and a few others, exempt from Obamacare. It's doable.

I've never quite understood why any libertarian thinks closing the borders will work. Will increasing efforts on the War on Drugs make it successful? No, of course not. It will only further increase black market activity. Similarly trying to close the borders will just increase the amount of violence involved in migration.

As for speeding up the process for those who came here legally. Sure, is there anyone who is against processing things for legal migrants quicker?

What I don't get is this fascination some people have with English being the sole language of the USA. Spain is a historical language of the southwest. I can sympathize with New Englanders who want to retain English dominance there, but I don't get how you can be from the southwest and not be bilingual in Spanish and English. Similarly I don't get how someone near Quebec isn't bilingual in French and English. Simply allow a free market in languages and things will work themselves out. Might some areas prefer Spanish over English? Possibly, but if that is the will of the market who are we to say otherwise?

There doesn't have to be a 'Department of Culture' to make sure there is a single uniform American culture.

 

[erowe1]

That said I support open borders, but not open citizenship.

+1

 

[Southerner]

I've never quite understood why any libertarian thinks closing the borders will work. Will increasing efforts on the War on Drugs make it successful? No, of course not. It will only further increase black market activity. Similarly trying to close the borders will just increase the amount of violence involved in migration.

Which is why there should be HARSH penalties for those caught here illegally repeatedly. Not prison, but work camps in snake filled swamps, logging with axes perhaps.

 

[erowe1]

Which is why there should be HARSH penalties for those caught here illegally repeatedly. Not prison, but work camps in snake filled swamps, logging with axes perhaps.

What if we made it so that what's illegal immigration today wouldn't be illegal any more? Then we wouldn't have to pay for all the penalties you want.

Also, why do you use the phrase "here illegally"? Is there some law that makes it illegal for someone merely to be here?

 

[Southerner]

What if we made it so that what's illegal immigration today wouldn't be illegal any more? Then we wouldn't have to pay for all the penalties you want.

Also, why do you use the phrase "here illegally"? Is there some law that makes it illegal for someone merely to be here?

 

[erowe1]

It's good to be clear and honest about your position.

If you pretend that you're only against illegal immigration, but then it turns out that you wouldn't support making it legal, then it's really not just illegal immigration you're against, but immigration in general. The fact that it's illegal isn't what makes it bad. You think it's bad anyway, and that's why you want it to be illegal.

It's like if you criticized "illegal draft dodging" and "illegal tax protesting." All that would really mean is that you support the draft and taxes.

 

[Michelangelo]

Which is why there should be HARSH penalties for those caught here illegally repeatedly. Not prison, but work camps in snake filled swamps, logging with axes perhaps.

Should those caught with possession of marijuana be sent to work camps? Do you believe that sending drug offenders to work camps would 'win' the War on Drugs?

The act of migration is by itself no crime. So long as there is demand for people to come here or demand for migrant labour then we will see migration. Adding work camps or taller fences won't end it. It will merely increase the amount of violence involved.

A migrant must find work, a home, and enter into countless other voluntary relationships in order to migrate here. Why do you believe you have the moral authority to decide what relationships others get into? As long as the relationship is voluntary there isn't any room to intervene.

You are free to not associate with illegal aliens, in the same manner that you are free to not associate with people who are homosexual, or Greek descent, or who support the Lakers. If there was a demand, in the economic sense, for people to not associate with illegal aliens I am sure we'd see businesses provide for that option. We might see stickers on fruit saying that it was grown on a farm where all the workers were US citizens or legal migrants. Curiously I've yet to see such stickers.

You are not however free to intervene in what third parties do. If Sally from down the street wants to hire an illegal alien to do yard work, that is the business of Sally and any illegals who are willing to do the work. It isn't your business. It isn't Obama's business. Nor is it your business if Sally wants to marry an illegal.

You can refuse to attend the wedding. You can refuse to hire the illegal's yard services. You are not however free to get a gun and force Sally to stop associating with someone.

 

[EBounding]

"Back of the line behind legal immigrants, but pathway to citizenship."

I chose this one, but really we just need a temporary worker program, not just a "pathway to citizenship". If you want free trade, it goes for both goods and labor. Most illegal immigrants come here to work and send money back home. If they felt free to go back and forth across the boarder for work, they probably wouldn't stay here that long.

Ideally, we wouldn't have welfare and there would be no reason for the angst other than xenophobia. But we don't, so I think the temporary worker program is a better solution.

 

[Southerner]

I agree on the temporary worker program. I am not against immigration, but I do think we need to go back to pre-1965 immigration levels. see h xxx s://www.numbersusa.com/content/learn/about/what-numbersusa-all-about.html

"And Mexico has a law that is no different from Arizona's that empowers local police to check the immigration documents of people suspected of not being in the country legally.

"There (in the United States), they'll deport you," Hector Vázquez, an illegal immigrant from Honduras, said as he rested in a makeshift camp with other migrants under a highway bridge in Tultitlán. "In Mexico they'll probably let you go, but they'll beat you up and steal everything you've got first."

h xxp://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/world/2010-05-25-mexico-migrants_N.htm

 

[Confederate]

There are a lot of illegal things that are victimless crimes. Just because it's illegal, doesn't mean it's wrong.

Of course it does, otherwise it wouldn't be illegal! Duh!

 

[Michelangelo]

I agree on the temporary worker program. I am not against immigration, but I do think we need to go back to pre-1965 immigration levels. see h xxx s://www.numbersusa.com/content/learn/about/what-numbersusa-all-about.html

"And Mexico has a law that is no different from Arizona's that empowers local police to check the immigration documents of people suspected of not being in the country legally.

"There (in the United States), they'll deport you," Hector Vázquez, an illegal immigrant from Honduras, said as he rested in a makeshift camp with other migrants under a highway bridge in Tultitlán. "In Mexico they'll probably let you go, but they'll beat you up and steal everything you've got first."

h xxp://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/world/2010-05-25-mexico-migrants_N.htm

The Mexican government sucks. The actions of the Mexican government should not be construed to represent the desire or wishes of the Mexican people though. The USA government is off killing foreigners by the boat load, but I like to think that most Americans are against that. The principle of open borders should apply to Mexico as much as it should apply to the USA. Both countries would benefit by allowing the free movement of people.


The problem with temporary worker programs is that all too often they are poorly thought out. Many of them place caps that simply aren't enough to meet with demand. Others are too costly in terms of application fees and/or wait times. Then there are those that give no grace period when switching between jobs. Just yuck. The Cato Institute does a pretty good job on the issue of worker visas.

As for Numbers USA... I can never over state my dislike of Malthus' legacy. There is no over population problem. Technology is more than capable of ensuring an increased food supply. There is a welfare-warfare state problem; especially in regards to regulations on housing. Get rid of rent control and zoning laws and we'd quickly see the market provide for the housing of people more efficiently.

 

[beaven]

Define "good American" because if that's going to be the litmus test, you might as well deport the majority of American citizens already living here.

A good citizen would be similar to a good juror. Additionally they would be educated in concepts of liberty & justice especially as the founders perceived these subjects + education on natural rights and natural law. No test would be perfect.

 

[KrokHead]

Immigration isn't the problem, it's welfare. Almost any American, here legally, born here, illegal, whatever manages to get on social programs. You cut the head off that snake and there is no immigration problem minus possible national security issues due to our foreign policy.