If you love liberty, vote NO on this smoking ban poll for business owners

Blah blah blah. When I grew up we could smoke in elevators and movie theatres. Nobody gave a crap, and asthma and allergies were practically non-existent. Your generation is whiny, selfish, and endlessly needy - they're the real boors.

When I'm sitting in a theater, I'm not filling the air that you breathe with noxious fumes. The smokers are. Their "rights" to blow smoke end at my nose, just as surely as their "rights" to swing their fists ends at my nose.

LOL....how old do you think I and the people I'm talking about are?
 
When I'm sitting in a theater, I'm not filling the air that you breathe with noxious fumes. The smokers are. Their "rights" to blow smoke end at my nose, just as surely as their "rights" to swing their fists ends at my nose.

LOL....how old do you think I and the people I'm talking about are?

But if a theater owner wants to allow smoking, that should be their decision not the town/city/state.

In a truly free market this would happen. If they don't like smoke, they can go to the theater who prohibits it.
 
When I'm sitting in a theater, I'm not filling the air that you breathe with noxious fumes. The smokers are. Their "rights" to blow smoke end at my nose, just as surely as their "rights" to swing their fists ends at my nose.

LOL....how old do you think I and the people I'm talking about are?

Again, you don't have any right to breathe the air inside the theatre - it is private property. If the property owners chooses to allow people to smoke on his property, you have the right to stay the hell home.

I'm guessing you're in your 20's - 30's. The children of the "ME!" generation are a nasty lot.
 
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Blah blah blah. When I grew up we could smoke in elevators and movie theatres. Nobody gave a crap, and asthma and allergies were practically non-existent. Your generation is whiny, selfish, and endlessly needy - they're the real boors. And I'm not just saying that. Your use of the word indicates that you don't actually understand the fine nuances of real etiquette, which means that a host is obliged to cater to all the whims and desires of all his guests, while his other guests don't criticize the behavior of anybody else. And for the record, asking someone to step outside to smoke is actually the epitome of boorishness.

Sure, that's why democracy sucks. You've avoided the real issue, which is why the actual property owner and the minority don't have any rights.

Again, I would have absolutely no problem with smokers if they could keep their smoke to themselves. They are free to smoke all they want so long as they don't allow their pollution to affect me. What is so hard to understand about that?

Okay, so another approach would be to allow smoking, but then be able to sue smokers for the pollution they cause. Yeah, that would be better. /sarcasm.
 
People fart.

I demand a fart free environment.

You have no right to force me to breathe air that is contaminated by your ass gas.
 
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Again, I would have absolutely no problem with smokers if they could keep their smoke to themselves. They are free to smoke all they want so long as they don't allow their pollution to affect me. What is so hard to understand about that?

Okay, so another approach would be to allow smoking, but then be able to sue smokers for the pollution they cause. Yeah, that would be better. /sarcasm.

Are smoking only establishments acceptable?
 
But if a theater owner wants to allow smoking, that should be their decision not the town/city/state.

In a truly free market this would happen. If they don't like smoke, they can go to the theater who prohibits it.

This.
 
Again, you don't have any right to breathe the air inside the theatre - it is private property. If the property owners chooses to allow people to smoke on his property, you have the right to stay the hell home.

And you can stay home with your pollution since you are unable to keep it to yourself when out in public.



I'm guessing you're in your 20's - 30's. The children of the "ME!" generation are a nasty lot.

Well, you're guessing wrong. I'm 50 and many of the people who believe as I do....that I have a right to expect you to keep your pollution to yourself.....are in their 60's and older.


It is more about the fact that smokers can't keep their pollution to themselves than it is about property rights. Smokers violate my property rights by blowing smoke into my face.
 
This probably isnt the most Libertarian thing of me to say, but one thing that might be considered is the specific type of place and service provided. People dont go to the hospital because they WANT to, they usually end up there because they have NO CHOICE. No Smoking in a Hospital, reasonable. No smoking within 10 miles of a Hospital, regardless if you just happen to own a home 9.75 miles away from the Hospital, unreasonable. Why? In a situation like that, a Hospital could claim that all property, regardless if Private, Public, owned by Someone Else, or Not at All to be their own and they expect jurisdiction over someone elses property.

What about theaters and bars? Privately owned is only Part of the Answer. No one has a NEED to go to the Bar, or Theater. The Decision to smoke on that property should be up to the property owner because there is no actual NEED to go to places like this. Hospital is a little different because people only go when they NEED to, but jurisdiction ends at their property line. What about Public Property? This can be based on Quantity. Inside a Private Business, someone else has No Right to tell me what I can and can not do on that property unless they are the property owner. Public Property we have plenty of, and I can stay a reasonable distance from someone while having a cigarette and we can both have what we want.
 
I'm guessing you're in your 20's - 30's. The children of the "ME!" generation are a nasty lot.

It aint the 20-30yrs olds that are pushing for and voting for these laws. Hell, everybody wants to say those people don't vote, so you can't blame them for these laws.
I wouldn't blame them on "leftists" either. Im sure there are plenty of "right-wing" suburbanmommies pushing for these laws.
 
Here in Ohio a non-smoking ban was enacted a few years back and practically everyone I know loves it and says it should have been done years ago. While it is true that a minority have lost their "right to smoke", the majority has regained the "right" to breathe cleaner air and the poor property owner caught in the middle no longer has to be the bad guy telling one group or the other to stuff it. A lot of property owners like that. Additionally, a lot of people who otherwise wouldn't have visited a business because of the smoke now do.

This.

Smoking pollutes the air. Pollution is an offence on my body. A smoking ban can therefore be thought of as self-defence.

Perfectly consistent.
 
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It aint the 20-30yrs olds that are pushing for and voting for these laws. Hell, everybody wants to say those people don't vote, so you can't blame them for these laws.
I wouldn't blame them on "leftists" either. Im sure there are plenty of "right-wing" suburbanmommies pushing for these laws.

This is why Democracies eventually eat themselves. It would be pretty much no different than all the Christians saying something to the effect of someone else having no right to be anything OTHER than Christian because the Majority is Christian. Not that Christians actually do this, but a few here and there have that mentality.

One of the Key differences between a Republic and a Democracy is that a Republic protects the rights of the Individual against the Demands of the Majority, and the Majority is not very well informed. It doesnt help that our "Republicans" have no interest in preserving a Republic. Take MONEY for example. "Everyone wants more money". The Majority would not even think about the consequences of inflating the money supply if they were the ones to "benefit" from increasing the Quantity of Money.
 
Sure, I have no problem with that...

Freedom wins then, and we can all agree that blanket smoking bans are unjust and set a very very dangerous precedent by banning personal behavior.

Smoke free and smoking permitted establishments FTW.
 
The reason people are so willing to toss the property rights out the window is merely because smokers are so willing to be inconsiderate of non-smokers, plain and simple. That a smoker would even consider lighting up indoors is to me the height of boorishness, but yet they do it (did it here in Ohio) all the time. A whole lot of people have had secondhand smoke blown their way for far too long. Get up and leave? I'm half-way through my dinner and when I started there were no smokers. Did the smoker ask if I minded? No, they never do. Their stupid addiction should be their problem and non-smokers shouldn't have to suffer alongside. To me it is entirely understandable that given a chance to outlaw smoking indoors the majority of people would jump at the chance.

Don't blame the non-smokers for this, blame the smokers for being such boors.

No, I blame the non-smokers that patronize smoking establishments and then bitch and moan that people are smoking. So much so that they want ALL of society to conform to their particular beliefs.
 
This probably isnt the most Libertarian thing of me to say, but one thing that might be considered is the specific type of place and service provided. People dont go to the hospital because they WANT to, they usually end up there because they have NO CHOICE. No Smoking in a Hospital, reasonable. No smoking within 10 miles of a Hospital, regardless if you just happen to own a home 9.75 miles away from the Hospital, unreasonable. Why? In a situation like that, a Hospital could claim that all property, regardless if Private, Public, owned by Someone Else, or Not at All to be their own and they expect jurisdiction over someone elses property.

What about theaters and bars? Privately owned is only Part of the Answer. No one has a NEED to go to the Bar, or Theater. The Decision to smoke on that property should be up to the property owner because there is no actual NEED to go to places like this. Hospital is a little different because people only go when they NEED to, but jurisdiction ends at their property line. What about Public Property? This can be based on Quantity. Inside a Private Business, someone else has No Right to tell me what I can and can not do on that property unless they are the property owner. Public Property we have plenty of, and I can stay a reasonable distance from someone while having a cigarette and we can both have what we want.

I would like to be able to visit hospitals and bars where people aren't coughing and sneezing some kind of nasty, life-threatening bacterial/viral infections. Can we make some laws against going out in public when you have these conditions? (not really serious here, but something to think about)
 
This.

Smoking pollutes the air. Pollution is an offence on my body. A smoking ban can therefore be thought of as self-defence.

Perfectly consistent.

Or you could just patronize non-smoking establishments and every one is happy.
 
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