Gary Johnson If Gary Johnson got into the debates

[asurfaholic]

You've just misrepresented a number of GJ's positions on the issues. What that shows me is you didn't even research them. And to claim he's trying to ride the "Ron Paul revolution to success," (which, I will mind you, was a grassroots revolution before it culminated with Ron in 2008) is nonsensical considering he was arguably the strongest conservative governor in the history of this country for 2 terms.

It's one thing to debate BXM or RonPaulHawaii on the details of the issues because they actually have a grasp of GJs platform, positions, and history. You don't have a background on any of that. I'm going to kindly ask you refrain from stoking a flame war until you actually research....you're just making a number of baseless claims.

Instead of being a dick about it why don't you just correct me where I'm wrong.

 

[Wren]

So you join the forum 2 years ago and you're more "righteous" than a guy who did a stellar job as governor for 2 terms?

I apologize if my e-penis date is smaller than yours? Is that what you're implying here?

I question if you're even old enough to comprehend the positions considering you speak with words like "my bad" (are you one of the college know it all kids?)

I graduated 3 years ago. I said "my bad" in a sentence. How horrible, I must be some dumbass college kid.

You quote a mass murderer...a tyrant...proudly and willingly, yet trash an individual who was never a tyrant during his tenure as governor. That's a double standard and that's called being a hypocrite.

I found something for you

 

[Nathan Hale]

That's a shitty comparison. The only time Ron has ever made "cringe worthy" statements are only in regard to his wording to appease GOP voters. He's never made idiotic statements on national television that totally contradict his policies or worldview. Not even comparable, not by a long shot, so stop trying.

I'm not "trying". I've made criticisms of Paul's debate performances on these boards since I joined, in June of 2007. Neither man is perfect. Please, I wish a man with Paul's conviction, Johnson's resume, and Schiff's wordsmithery was our candidate. But that's not the case.

 

[Wren]

I'm not "trying". I've made criticisms of Paul's debate performances on these boards since I joined, in June of 2007. Neither man is perfect. Please, I wish a man with Paul's conviction, Johnson's resume, and Schiff's wordsmithery was our candidate. But that's not the case.

Paul has never contradicted himself or his worldview on national television in a debate. Yes, you are trying.

 

[misean]

The bottom line is both Paul and Johnson are below average speakers for politicians. They aren't the worst but they are both down the list. I watch most the Ron Paul youtubes and listening to him is difficult sometimes and the same goes for Johnson. It would be great to have someone as articulate as a Tom Woods or Schiff able to get in the mix.

 

[rockandrollsouls]

No offense, but Woods is a historian and Schiff is a financial advisor. All Woods has done his entire career is talk and preach (never put anything into action, not an economist) and Schiff actually lost his clients a lot of money in the 08 collapse, despite preaching so much.

It's not that Paul and Johnson are poor speakers. It's a matter of breaking out from the absurd grip the powers to be have on ALL areas of government and media. It's not that the message is not accepted; it's that it is squashed.

The bottom line is both Paul and Johnson are below average speakers for politicians. They aren't the worst but they are both down the list. I watch most the Ron Paul youtubes and listening to him is difficult sometimes and the same goes for Johnson. It would be great to have someone as articulate as a Tom Woods or Schiff able to get in the mix.

 

[rockandrollsouls]

I shouldn't have to research for you before you speak. Isn't that what the "personal responsibility" is about in Ron's platform that you support?

Not trying to "be a dick," but common sense might suggest that GJ running and winning on a liberty platform in 1994 preceded his so called attempt to "hijack the liberty movement" in 2012... What he's saying now was what he said in 1994....

Instead of being a dick about it why don't you just correct me where I'm wrong.

 

[rockandrollsouls]

Conclusion - Kid that got out of college 3 years ago and is suddenly the judge and standard bearer of all things libertarian. So, Mr. Libertarian...how many of those government subsidized college loans are you still paying off? Put your money where your mouth is...come on now.

I apologize if my e-penis date is smaller than yours? Is that what you're implying here?



I graduated 3 years ago. I said "my bad" in a sentence. How horrible, I must be some dumbass college kid.



I found something for you

 

[rockandrollsouls]

Wrong again. Just another example you are a newcomer with a strong fire for liberty, but you're directing your anger in the wrong direction.

Watch Paul's debate performances as the libertarian nominee, the 2008 primary, and the 2012 primary. He's toned back a lot of his issues. Does it mean he changed his stance? In 99% of cases (barring the death penalty switch,) absolutely not. But he has changed his approach (I believe for the better.)

You can look to his stance on the border, drugs, etc.

Paul has never contradicted himself or his worldview on national television in a debate. Yes, you are trying.

 

[misean]

No offense, but Woods is a historian and Schiff is a financial advisor. All Woods has done his entire career is talk and preach (never put anything into action, not an economist) and Schiff actually lost his clients a lot of money in the 08 collapse, despite preaching so much.

It's not that Paul and Johnson are poor speakers. It's a matter of breaking out from the absurd grip the powers to be have on ALL areas of government and media. It's not that the message is not accepted; it's that it is squashed.

I wasn't talking about Schiff or Woods specifically. I was using them as examples as people who articulate free market principles well. Schiff losing money doesn't have anything to do with being a good economist (I call him an economist.) There isn't much correlation between making money in the markets and understanding economics, Ray Dalio excepted.

Johnson and Paul are not articulate relative to many of their peers. Listen to Romney, Obama, or Barney Frank. They might say repugnant things but they speak clearly and with amount of authoritative confidence, something Paul and Johnson do not do. I don't necessarily think speaking well is important to being a leader, but it is important to winning elections. Being a good salesman is important.

 

[Wren]

Conclusion - Kid that got out of college 3 years ago and is suddenly the judge and standard bearer of all things libertarian. So, Mr. Libertarian...how many of those government subsidized college loans are you still paying off? Put your money where your mouth is...come on now.

1. I'm not a Libertarian. Maybe a small L. 2. I have a good paying job with 0 debt that you don't need to know about. How about sticking to the issues instead of flexing your tiny internet penis?

Wrong again. Just another example you are a newcomer with a strong fire for liberty, but you're directing your anger in the wrong direction.

Watch Paul's debate performances as the libertarian nominee, the 2008 primary, and the 2012 primary. He's toned back a lot of his issues. Does it mean he changed his stance? In 99% of cases (barring the death penalty switch,) absolutely not. But he has changed his approach (I believe for the better.)

You can look to his stance on the border, drugs, etc.

You're purposely avoiding the issues. No matter how Johnson contradicts himself, you're right there defending him. Tell me, what is your purpose on a Ron Paul forum besides promoting GJ Mr. 07er? Ron Paul has never contradicted himself on TV. Period. Gary Johnson made a mockery of himself. Therefore, to compare the both of them is grasping at straws and a sign of desperation.

OK, I'm done arguing with you.

 

[rockandrollsouls]

I'm just stating the facts. Ron has tailored his stance on the issues a significant amount, primarily through his approach, since his Libertarian run (which would be before you even graduated grade school.) How can you claim Ron has never changed his approach or that GJ "contradicts" himself when you were in elementary school when both of them were in the grand political scheme?

It's not a matter of "defending Johnson." As I've stated in other threads, it's a matter of keeping the facts straight and giving every liberty candidate a fair shake. You're the one on the odd end of this debate. You've made assumptions in a number of instances when you 1) joined a liberty movement that's been building for decades only this election cycle and 2) You've only been exposed to both candidates for a limited time. You weren't watching either in the early late 80s or early 90s.

For you to act as jury, judge, and executioner is true desperation. I've never compared the two. In fact, the furthest I've ever gone is to 1) show evidence both have supported each other (which is a big deal, considering Ron nearly always has reservations.) and 2) claim both were both very similar ideologically, but take different approaches.

The youth has been great for injecting more life into this movement, but I will draw the line when you seek to turn it into a religion and attempt to dismantle the extensive support network we've built over many years to support other liberty candidates. The fact of the matter is we will never have candidates as "pure" as Ron at all levels of government. But that doesn't mean we should decry, isolate, and shun every other liberty candidate.

I'm telling you right now the degree of division and infighting present is what will determine the success or failure of the freedom movement. And, no offense, I'm not going to let some punk kid divide the movement we've built for so long because he just discovered Ron Paul, his eyes have been opened, and nothing else will satisfy his new found political appetite.

1. I'm not a Libertarian. Maybe a small L. 2. I have a good paying job with 0 debt that you don't need to know about. How about sticking to the issues instead of flexing your tiny internet penis?





You're purposely avoiding the issues. No matter how Johnson contradicts himself, you're right there defending him. Tell me, what is your purpose on a Ron Paul forum besides promoting GJ Mr. 07er? Ron Paul has never contradicted himself on TV. Period. Gary Johnson made a mockery of himself. Therefore, to compare the both of them is grasping at straws and a sign of desperation.

OK, I'm done arguing with you.

 

[Nathan Hale]

Paul has never contradicted himself or his worldview on national television in a debate. Yes, you are trying.

Keep on saying it, Wren - and maybe one day it'll become true! Remember, a dream is a wish your heart makes.

 

[VIDEODROME]

Johnson was on Mancow and turned the foreign policy question around the way he should have done with Krauthammer.

He offered the most obvious rebuttal asking Mancow if American should have gone to war with India or even the U.S.S.R.. Gary wasn't the most eloquent speaker but that actually shut Mancow up for a second.

 

[qh4dotcom]

I donated my hard earned money to Governor Johnson, he'll be getting my vote in November and I sure hope he qualifies for the presidential debate with Obama & Romney but it's his own fault he's not doing well at the polls, it's his own fault his low poll numbers did not qualify him to get into more Republican debates. He's doing nothing about Obama's crimes, he's not talking about Fast & Furious, Obama's eligibility, etc....seems like he's Ok with letting Obama get away with his crimes. When he became governor, GJ also took the oath to defend the natural born citizen requirements of the Constitution...and like the Pauls and rest of Congress he has been silent on the eligibility issue and not doing his job. GJ complained a lot about his exclusion from the Republican debates. The media ridiculed Donald Trump for talking about Obama's eligibility...and after they did he surged to #1 in the polls...and got a multi-million dollar contract renewed. GJ would have also likely surged in the polls and qualified for the debates had he done his job. Polls show half the country has doubts about Obama's eligibility....half the Republican voters did not have a candidate who shared their beliefs whom to vote for in the primaries...that was a golden opportunity missed for Ron Paul and Gary Johnson because they were too afraid to do their jobs and too afraid of the big bad media.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0211/49554.html

 

[VIDEODROME]

Seems like if there was really grounds for this then Republicans would have moved to impeach a long time ago.

 

[qh4dotcom]

Seems like if there was really grounds for this then Republicans would have moved to impeach a long time ago.

Republicans don't have the guts to impeach Obama, the liberal media would ridicule them if they try to impeach.

 

[VIDEODROME]

Nothing like that stopped them from going after Bill Clinton.

If they're willing to run an attack like that they would do the same against Obama if they had a shred of proof.

Anyway I'm not sure Donald Trump is someone I'd want to emulate.

 

[Wren]

Keep on saying it, Wren - and maybe one day it'll become true! Remember, a dream is a wish your heart makes.

What to do when you lack response? Be a forum troll. I'm still waiting for evidence of Paul ever contradicting two of his positions on TV. Until then, your comparison is bullshit and a low sign of desperation.

 

[Nathan Hale]

What to do when you lack response? Be a forum troll. I'm still waiting for evidence of Paul ever contradicting two of his positions on TV. Until then, your comparison is bullshit and a low sign of desperation.

When did I say that Paul contradicted two of his positions on TV? I didn't, therefore it's not trollish of me to attempt to provide evidence of it. Perhaps you'd like to have a conversation about that, in which case man up and enter the conversation by some other method. Actually, don't bother, because talking to you is a waste of the precious hours of my life.