I statement making the rounds

[klamath]

Yep, these are the facts. Again I don't have a specific stance on the 'tactics' of the issue and really any stance on that front is going to be guess work anyway because "who's on the fence" and "what would push them one way or the other" are both up for debate and neither one have a single answer.

All that being said affa nails it, my vote goes to No One but Paul. Because he's the only one with the voting record to back up his claims (not to mention the only 'major' candidate who's claims I'd support to begin with).
The single largest GOP voting block is ABO because even among those who have other issues most are willing to compromise if it means beating Obama. The only way to court the crossover voters is to have someone who appeals to them, in theory this is why Willard 'could win' because he's close enough to center. But let's be brutally honest for a moment, Romney in both policy and presentation is a pale version of Obama and regardless of whether or not you personally feel the 'diet' version would/could be better it won't inspire crossover in any statistically significant way. Of the GOP on offer only Paul can claim that potential with legitimacy. And then there are the NOBP voters who's votes won't be going to anyone else (even if RP were to endorse someone and/or not run 3rd party if it actually comes to that) and really that's case closed. As affa says

simple math:

ABO + NOBP = Ron Paul
Romney - NOBP = Obama
Gingrich - NOBP = Obama


Will the GOP care more about beating Paul than beating Obama? *shrugs* that's the big question, I guess we'll see.

but what you forgot in your equation is the ABP (anybody but paul)republicans of which there is quite a few. so your equation should look like this.

ABO+NOBP-ABP+indies+ dems=possible Paul
Romney-NOBP +indies= Possible Romney
Gringrich-NOBP- indies= Obama.

 

[Live Free or Die]

Pure authentic neocons would likely support Obama over Paul.

Good, then give them what they crave and let them CHOKE ON IT!

No matter what, Congress will gain an overwhelming conservative presence in the house and senate come November, 2012. President Obama will be swirling in place, like a clogged toilet you just can't flush. Good for everybody.

And F Bill Kristol.

 

[Live Free or Die]

I think posting something like this is a horrible idea that will only hurt Ron Paul's campaign by making us look like bratty children threatening to stomp our feet and throw a tantrum if people don't do what we say. Ron Paul supporters already have a serious perception problem and this will just reinforce the idea that we're a cult of nutjobs. If I saw this from another candidate's supporters I would be immediately turned off. People do NOT respond well to blackmail.

The passion is good, but the message is terrible...

Dear new member AdamL, Welcome to RP Forums.

I speak for only myself. As this is your first post here, I think posting what you did is a horrible idea that will only hurt your reputation. It makes you look like a bratty child, stomping your feet.

I also think it dovetails you in nicely with the many other "new" members who claim to be Ron Paul supporters but only wish to join a "cult of nutjobs" because their last cult of the month kicked 'em to the curb. Wake up, Adam, as I think it is YOU who has the "serious perception problem."[sic]

I have PRINCIPLES, as do the overwhelming majority of real Ron Paul supporters.

This is not blackmail. This is reality. If you are "turned off" then you are not comprehending. Peace.

 

[LibertasPraesidium]

To some of us this is not a joke, this is not a meme, it is not just a vote. It is OUR last chance to vote someone into POTUS that represents who we are. Who I am, what I stand for, and what I believe.

I cannot consciously vote for anyone else. There is so much at stake this election cycle, that squabbling between each other seems senseless when we all want the same thing. Peace, the end of a horrible century of corruption and deception, fear and hatred.

The no one but Paul idea works, and the GOP knows that to have redemption this election cycle he is the only one that can win against Obama, because (as this post says) without us, Obama will win.

I have witnessed this first hand, thousands of Obama supporters will vote for Paul over Obama if he is elected, but they will not support anyone else. Its Paul or Obama, and the GOP knows this and probably doesn't care. As long as they get to keep some of the spoils. So either we show them how strong the NOBP group is or we splinter, and fail.

Unfortunately, it is all or nothing this time, because we all know that it is Paul or we will serve under Obama. Your choice because we can win this.

 

[PolicyReader]

but what you forgot in your equation is the ABP (anybody but paul)republicans of which there is quite a few. so your equation should look like this.

ABO+NOBP-ABP+indies+ dems=possible Paul
Romney-NOBP +indies= Possible Romney
Gringrich-NOBP- indies= Obama.

1 & 3 I agree with,
2 tho I honestly don't.
I can't prove this because no one can prove any election result before the election but outside of the gop nominating process I simply don't see Willard as electable. Maybe in another election cycle but not against Obama. The two are far too alike but Romney is the pale version, the diet version, meaning that on average voters who aren't just going party line will either vote Obama because they support what the Status Quo offers (i.e. the Romney/Obama policy options) or will opt out of voting because no one motivates them to show up (or will go 3rd party as a 'protest vote'). Survey conducted in 2011 shows +25% of the general populace consider being Mormon sufficient reason to disqualify someone from holding high office. Now we liberty minded folks can say what we want about avoiding discrimination but those numbers are still where the culture stands presently. For arguments sake let's say that the 25% in question comes from every political background equally, that won't really cost Romney any Dem votes but will still cost him Indy and Rep votes. Voters don't have to 'go to' someone they can just stay home (and that's actually quite common even in presidential election cycles). Honestly that alone might give Obama enough of an edge to win, esp when including the massive war chest Obama has and that the current statistical dead heat is happening while Romney is campaigning and Obama isn't.
Even among the GOP insiders where Romney draws lots of his support there's little pretense that Romney has what could be called a passionate or fired up following and that lackluster status could also on it's own cost him a general election if it means fewer of the demographics who do support him are motivated to show up and vote. Beyond that I don't know of any Indys who are pro-Romney. I'm sure there must be some out there, likely even some in every state but they are not the majority by any measure I am aware of. To be totally candid if we set aside the GOP nomination and focus on the general I don't see Romney as electable he brings essentially nothing to the table that would cause people to cross party lines and certainly not enough to compensate for "the Mormon factor". To be blunt among the Indy and Dem voters I know Romney is even more disliked (and often more vehemently so) than Santorum. Romney is even more disliked among people I encounter directly than Ron Paul (by people who believe Paul actually wrote the newsletters). Of course nothing is certain, it's "not over till it's over" as they say but Willard is the last guy I'd put my money on if I were to bet on the outcome of the general election. Despite his campaign mantra Romney = Unelectable

 

[klamath]

1 & 3 I agree with,
2 tho I honestly don't.
I can't prove this because no one can prove any election result before the election but outside of the gop nominating process I simply don't see Willard as electable. Maybe in another election cycle but not against Obama. The two are far too alike but Romney is the pale version, the diet version, meaning that on average voters who aren't just going party line will either vote Obama because they support what the Status Quo offers (i.e. the Romney/Obama policy options) or will opt out of voting because no one motivates them to show up (or will go 3rd party as a 'protest vote'). Survey conducted in 2011 shows +25% of the general populace consider being Mormon sufficient reason to disqualify someone from holding high office. Now we liberty minded folks can say what we want about avoiding discrimination but those numbers are still where the culture stands presently. For arguments sake let's say that the 25% in question comes from every political background equally, that won't really cost Romney any Dem votes but will still cost him Indy and Rep votes. Voters don't have to 'go to' someone they can just stay home (and that's actually quite common even in presidential election cycles). Honestly that alone might give Obama enough of an edge to win, esp when including the massive war chest Obama has and that the current statistical dead heat is happening while Romney is campaigning and Obama isn't.
Even among the GOP insiders where Romney draws lots of his support there's little pretense that Romney has what could be called a passionate or fired up following and that lackluster status could also on it's own cost him a general election if it means fewer of the demographics who do support him are motivated to show up and vote. Beyond that I don't know of any Indys who are pro-Romney. I'm sure there must be some out there, likely even some in every state but they are not the majority by any measure I am aware of. To be totally candid if we set aside the GOP nomination and focus on the general I don't see Romney as electable he brings essentially nothing to the table that would cause people to cross party lines and certainly not enough to compensate for "the Mormon factor". To be blunt among the Indy and Dem voters I know Romney is even more disliked (and often more vehemently so) than Santorum. Romney is even more disliked among people I encounter directly than Ron Paul (by people who believe Paul actually wrote the newsletters). Of course nothing is certain, it's "not over till it's over" as they say but Willard is the last guy I'd put my money on if I were to bet on the outcome of the general election. Despite his campaign mantra Romney = Unelectable

It is true no one really knows what will happen but when you try and sell only RP is electable you are going to have to agree on some common electoral idicators and that is polls. RP and Romney are the only ones competitive against Obama. That is the building blocks you are going to have to work with in convincing new voters.

 

[J_White]

plain and simple truth !
many neocons will have a fit on seeing this though, we should add a disclaimer with the message !

 

[AhuwaleKaNaneHuna]

Wow, it spoke for me. I approve of that message. Nice job!

 

[affa]

Right. that is exactly what I said. People are running around bleating NOBP thinking it is a winning strategy to get RP the election. Flat out it is NOT.

no, it's not what you said. You fantasied an imaginary voter with an imaginary position, and posited a NOBP speaking like an idiot to them. That's not proof that NOBP isn't a good meme.

We are changing the dialog from RP is 'unelectable' and Romney 'will beat Obama' and forcing the GOP to realize they need us. That IS an important part of what's going on, regardless of your opinion of it. As I've said before in this very thread -- if I am NOBP, why shouldn't I say it? Because you think it's a bad idea? Well, in that case, let me say this: I think your dismissal of NOBP is a bad idea. So please don't talk about it. See how that works?

PS-
bleat. bleat. bleat.
No One But Paul.

 

[AdamL]

Dear new member AdamL, Welcome to RP Forums.

I speak for only myself. As this is your first post here, I think posting what you did is a horrible idea that will only hurt your reputation. It makes you look like a bratty child, stomping your feet.

I also think it dovetails you in nicely with the many other "new" members who claim to be Ron Paul supporters but only wish to join a "cult of nutjobs" because their last cult of the month kicked 'em to the curb. Wake up, Adam, as I think it is YOU who has the "serious perception problem."[sic]

I have PRINCIPLES, as do the overwhelming majority of real Ron Paul supporters.

This is not blackmail. This is reality. If you are "turned off" then you are not comprehending. Peace.

Hey, if you want to do something that will make Ron Paul look bad and probably turn off people who might have otherwise ended up voting for him, feel free. Who am I to stop you? I would just personally prefer reaching out to people in a positive manner rather than alienating them, and would encourage others to do the same.

 

[affa]

To some of us this is not a joke, this is not a meme, it is not just a vote. It is OUR last chance to vote someone into POTUS that represents who we are. Who I am, what I stand for, and what I believe.

While I absolutely agree with the sentiment, No One But Paul is a meme. This does not detract from it in any way, but it's textbook meme, just as rEVOLution is, just as Money Bomb is, just as End the Fed is. All are great, and there is a massive amount of weight behind them... but they're still memes. And that's why they're so effective at spreading, at getting past people's natural filters, at forcing people to think about what they mean, etc. If we had to explain the power of Ron Paul supporters with an essay every time it came up, we'd get nowhere. NOBP, even if someone doesn't like it, or doesn't want to hear it, is a stark truth.

 

[Deborah K]

Just posted this on my FB.

 

[Deborah K]

Right. that is exactly what I said. People are running around bleating NOBP thinking it is a winning strategy to get RP the election. Flat out it is NOT.

It is a strategical display of our power. The sooner the GOP realizes that they cannot win without the Ron Paul supporter, the better. NOBP is a strategy to keep us united. I can't tell you how often I get pressured about voting Republican if RP doesn't win the nom. I put it back on them. When serious voters finally understand our passion for this candidate, it will inevitably move them to research him further. We MUST stand united, and NOBP is how we do it.

 

[Edward]

It is a strategical display of our power. The sooner the GOP realizes that they cannot win without the Ron Paul supporter, the better. NOBP is a strategy to keep us united. I can't tell you how often I get pressured about voting Republican if RP doesn't win the nom. I put it back on them. When serious voters finally understand our passion for this candidate, it will inevitably move them to research him further. We MUST stand united, and NOBP is how we do it.

I love the NOBP meme and the display of power it represents, and I certainly agree that no one should feel pressured into voting for another candidate as the lesser of two evils, etc. I stand with those who view no real difference between Obama and Romney. What I do disagree with is the belief the NOBP movement as a strategy is strong enough to stop the GOP juggernaut. Skeptical as I am of the MSM, polling data supports the notion that the GOP (i.e. Romney) can win a head-to-head contest vs. Obama. I think it's OK to let people know that we will not vote for anyone else, however, it is a very misguided notion to believe that coercion will get Ron the GOP nod.

 

[Deborah K]

I love the NOBP meme and the display of power it represents, and I certainly agree that no one should feel pressured into voting for another candidate as the lesser of two evils, etc. I stand with those who view no real difference between Obama and Romney. What I do disagree with is the belief the NOBP movement as a strategy is strong enough to stop the GOP juggernaut. Skeptical as I am of the MSM, polling data supports the notion that the GOP (i.e. Romney) can win a head-to-head contest vs. Obama. I think it's OK to let people know that we will not vote for anyone else, however, it is a very misguided notion to believe that coercion will get Ron the GOP nod.

It's not coercion. Coercion implies intimidation in order to obtain compliance. We have passion, principle, and unity. There is no room for coercion in a freedom movement.

 

[Edward]

It's not coercion. Coercion implies intimidation in order to obtain compliance. We have passion, principle, and unity. There is no room for coercion in a freedom movement.

No, not coercion in the legal sense, but the original statement carries an implied threat (i.e. we will take our toys, go home, and give you Obama) if you don't comply with what we want (i.e. vote for Paul). For Ron to be successful, for the movement to be successful, people need to feel as though they are voting for a positive.

 

[LibertasPraesidium]

So instead of simply saying it will or won't work why dont we come together and make it part of the original meme...

No One But Paul Will Restore America.... and so on... With the dedication at the top, altered to sound less threatening but still reveal the passion that unites us behind him as a Presidential candidate that stands on Principle.

 

[Deborah K]

No, not coercion in the legal sense, but the original statement carries an implied threat (i.e. we will take our toys, go home, and give you Obama) if you don't comply with what we want (i.e. vote for Paul). For Ron to be successful, for the movement to be successful, people need to feel as though they are voting for a positive.

I don't agree. NOBP unifies the movement. It's about being no longer willing to vote for one criminal or the other. It's about standing up in unity with others who have the same passion about the future of our country. It's about everything Ron Paul stands for. And it doesn't really matter if 'they' don't get that.

 

[Edward]

I don't agree. NOBP unifies the movement. It's about being no longer willing to vote for one criminal or the other. It's about standing up in unity with others who have the same passion about the future of our country. It's about everything Ron Paul stands for. And it doesn't really matter if 'they' don't get that.

I agree that NOBP unifies the movement... one to which you and I already subscribe and belong. The issue, as I understand it, is whether or not the original statement is a good one to bring people outside the movement (i.e. those who currently do not support Paul) into it. If we want to win, it does matter that those outside the movement are persuaded to "see the light".

 

[klamath]

It is a strategical display of our power. The sooner the GOP realizes that they cannot win without the Ron Paul supporter, the better. NOBP is a strategy to keep us united. I can't tell you how often I get pressured about voting Republican if RP doesn't win the nom. I put it back on them. When serious voters finally understand our passion for this candidate, it will inevitably move them to research him further. We MUST stand united, and NOBP is how we do it.

NOBP among the RP supporters uniting is not what we are talking about here. This is what THIS letter starts out as. "Pay attention Republican voters." This is not talking amongth ourselves. This is threatening the individual republican voters out there.This is not talking it to the GOP bigwhigs this is talking directly to Republican voters. Despite what Affa said my point about canvassing voters and then telling them we are not going to vote your candidate is flat out what this letter is doing. That will NOT help RP get the nomination and if this is what people are doing then no wonder RP went from double digits to single digits. The GOP knows that the libertarian wing of the party is gone otherwise Obama would be lossing in every poll as bad as the economy is. Does it shake your resolve to vote for RP when you hear a republican voter say "if Paul gets it I will vote for Obama'? It doesn't me and it makes me dig my heal in stronger but you have to realize supporters of other candidates will have the same reaction when told that. It won't get Votes for RP.