Huckabee won the values Voter debate by 63%

[V-rod]

If Giulani was asked that NAU question he would literally walk out the building.

 

[Syren123]

The holy than thou lady says ron paul lost 10 votes. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT! Once you drink our kool aid you wont flip flop.

Exactly. We use 100% cane sugar - not high fructose corn syrup - and no artificial colors or flavors. Keeps your brain cells high functioning, intact, and rational.

Those fundies need to get off the Twinkies and tuna casseroles asap.

 

[Syren123]

She also said that the Huckabee victory is a answer to prayer, meaning that Huckabee is somehow God's choice for president.

I spoke to God just last night and He said that Huckabee is NOT his choice.

 

[LibertyEagle]

I would just like to say that I am also totally disturbed by the debate. There is no other candidate aside from Ron Paul that I can cast a vote for. I am, however, a conservative/Bible believing dispensational Christian.
The reason that I was disturbed (and also have a headache) was not only the answers given by the other candidates...but most of the questions that were asked. I think that it is a flawed notion for Christians to look to government to enforce morality upon America. What Ron Paul said regarding the founding fathers' understanding of free speech is absolutely true. I am all for liberty because I don't want someone pushing their beliefs and morality on me. Not to mention that the Apostle Paul clearly states that we do not have any business judging those outside the Church (and America and the Church are most definitely not synonomous). I desire to live "a quiet and peacable life in all godliness and reverence." I also know (as the founders of our Country did) that most of the greatest acts of evil ever perpetrated upon mankind have been by governments. SO, I am disturbed that so many Christians have bought the lie that somehow government can save them. Unfortunately they are being hoodwinked into giving up their liberties, and will soon find themselves slaves in the new government being given to us by the elitists...

What do you think is the best way to get through to them? Is there anything we can or should be doing?

 

[LibertyEagle]

If Giulani was asked that NAU question he would literally walk out the building.

I would've loved Phyllis Schlafly to get her hands on him. She would have hung him up to dry with his law firm's dealings with the Spanish company, Cintra, making all the deals for the NAFTA Superhighway.

 

[Bradley in DC]

I didn't hear Keyes ever attack Paul. I think he is more of a threat to Huckabee and Romney. He went after Romney hard.

Second.

 

[paulitics]

As much as I like Ron Paul and his views and stances, sometimes I think his demeanor during debates is less than optimal. I think he could have come across a little more relaxed. I'm not a fan of the yelling so much.

I agree. His demeanor in earlier debates was more effective.

 

[fiddler1]

The Values Voters

I just recently suffered through the entire marathon like "Values Voter" presidential debates. The so called first tier candidates did not make an appearance. I am of course referring to the military-industrial-corporate anointed ones: Romney, McCain, Guilianni, and Fred Thompson. I have to admit that there was a real attempt by the sponsors and moderators to be fair about the allotted time for each candidate. This was refreshing after watching several other debates where the bias of the moderators in the questions asked and time allowed was blatantly obvious. What really surprised me about the religious right was their eagerness to impose their views on everyone else, at the point of a gun if necessary. At the same time they cry foul about anyone else's struggle to live their lives the way they want, if it does not agree with their philosophy or their particular interpretation of their faith. While they condemn Islam for sharia law, they see no problem with imposing their Christian version on everyone else. They seem to find no problem with fighting an illegal war against a country that did not attack us. This is hypocrisy, pure and simple. I am a Christian, but I do not think it necessary to visit a church building to connect with the creator. The problem is that Christianity has become a religion "about" Jesus, rather than the faith practiced by Jesus himself. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." "Blessed are the peacemakers" While being crucified: "Father forgive them.. They know not what they do" "If a man smite you on one cheek, turn the other" Instead now I hear. Peacemakers are un-American! Do unto them before they do unto us! The "Values Voters" booed Ron Paul for actually reminding them that Jesus is the "Prince of Peace" I'm not sure what values these people have actually. Let us now end with a rousing version of "Onward Christian Warmongers" or maybe "Jesus wants to cluster-bomb the children" That said, I do realize that not all Christians are like this. God save the poor Christians involved with the organized church. I fear they are in the devils playground and are becoming nothing more than the tools of the beast...

 

[jj111]

Huckabee will lose so those who watched might end up supporting Ron in the end.

 

[Bradley in DC]

The Hill explains it all (best at end)

http://thehill.com/campaign-2008/huckabee-triumphs-in-value-voters-straw-poll-2007-09-18.html

 

[joyfullyservingchrist]

What do you think is the best way to get through to them? Is there anything we can or should be doing?

I have tried on numerous occasions (and actually with frequent success) but it's hard because there is definitely a level of brainwashing (or something) that has occured. I'm also a military veteran who has been to both Iraq and Afghanistan. 2 years ago, if someone had said to me that what we were doing wasn't right...I would have written them off as some crazy liberal. (My apologies to all of the "crazy liberals" ) And if anyone had questioned president Bush...the conversation would have stopped there. I thought (as do most ignorant Christians) that since he claimed to be a believer...whatever he did must be okay. WRONG!

One thing I've noticed is how emotional manipulation is used in their argument (and my past argument). Rather than entertaining the issue rationally, you just call the other person "Un-patriotic" or "Un-American." (By the way if you haven't seen Ron Paul's speech "What is a Patriot" to Congress...you must. Just go to http://www.house.gov/paul/ )

I think the best argument, at least in my opinion, is to show them the facts about how our freedoms are being swept under the rug in the Patriot Act 1 and 2 (though 2 is a different name). And my question is always, "Why aren't any of the other candidates talking about these things? They all know about them. Ron Paul has addressed Congress regarding them. Why don't we hear about this stuff?" Then, when they don't know how to respond, I say something like, "I think it is safe to assume that either the other candidates DO NOT have the American People's best interest in mind...or, to give them the benefit of the doubt, at least don't know what is best for the American people."

I think Ron Paul is right on when he says the best that we can do is become educated about these things. The ability to explain how liberty works is really crucial...and not getting upset when we do it helps alot. Books that have really helped me have been the "Uncle Eric" series by Richard Maybury. Though written to teenagers...it is some of the best stuff I've read on it. Probably because he really breaks it down and makes it really easy to understand. "Whatver happened to Justice" in particular helped me to see that we don't need a ton of laws. Common law works great. Just "Do all you have agreed to do." And "Do not encroach on other persons or their property." These two laws are all we need to have a stable society.

I hope this helps. I don't know if I've said anything that you don't probably already know. From the Christian Perspective, I think that most believers don't really know what the Bible teaches us as far as our interaction and relationship with those who don't believe. And what our ideal government would be. Namely, one that minds its own business so that we can "live a quiet and peacable life in all godliness and reverence."

 

[inibo]

I would just like to say that I am also totally disturbed by the debate. There is no other candidate aside from Ron Paul that I can cast a vote for. I am, however, a conservative/Bible believing dispensational Christian.

I'm thinking that was maybe directed at my "John Hagee dispensationalist" comment. I'm a former dispensationalist myself. I understand the doctrine and am pretty much convinced that if one assumes verbal, plenary inspiration, dispensationalism has the most solid Biblical foundation. That's why I qualified my statement with "John Hagee." It's not so much the dispensational part I am faulting as the rabid, knee-jerk support for political Israel, i.e., Zionism, that Hagee exemplifies and the idea that somehow we are going to speed up the return of Christ by encouraging confrontation in the Middle East.

I have nothing but respect for committed Christians even though I am no longer one myself.

 

[Matt Collins]

My thread title was hijacked.

The original title of this thread was "Conclusions of the Values Voter Debate?"

 

[joyfullyservingchrist]

I did not take offense...though I did specifically write that I am dispensational because of what you wrote. Frankly, I'm not sure who John Hagee is (though the name sounds familiar). I am of the persuasion that though I look forward to the return of Christ, I do not want the things that are going to happen, to happen on my watch. The idea of doing things to speed things up is a little strange to me. What about "quiet and peacable lives" don't they understand. And that is in the context of praying for our political leaders. I just can't follow that train of thought.