How to tame an angry sheep?

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

My friend thinks i'm crazy that i'm going to vote for Ron Paul and has basically criticized me everyday since I decided to support him on the daily basis. I asked her if she thinks the government knowing everything you do is fine and she said "Yeah, I don't give a shit."

 

[PimpBlimp]

find new friends

 

[JGalt]

find new friends

QFLLT.

 

[USAF Vet Dan]

My friend thinks i'm crazy that i'm going to vote for Ron Paul and has basically criticized me everyday since I decided to support him on the daily basis. I asked her if she thinks the government knowing everything you do is fine and she said "Yeah, I don't give a shit."

Your friend's appalling apathy is most likely the partial result of decades of baseless blathering by puppet politicians in concert with the MSM's intentional dumbing down of the electorate. The other part is probably from a lack of character. I agree with PimpBlimp: find new friends.

“In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, Brave, Hated, and Scorned. When his cause succeeds however,the timid join him, For then it costs nothing to be a Patriot.” Mark Twain

I think Mr. Clemmons was on to something!

 

[XNavyNuke]

I asked her if she thinks the government knowing everything you do is fine and she said "Yeah, I don't give a shit."

Take heart.

Most sheep believe what the shepard tells them. After all, he only has their best interest at heart, right? So, when he says that uncastrated rams are dangerous (except in controlled situations) then he must be believed. When he says that they don't need rams to watch over the flock, that sheepdogs are much better, then why should the flock question? Only a ram would dare point out that the sheepdog shares 99.8% of the wolf's DNA, and that rams managed for millions of years to prevent their kind from being wiped out by wolves. (The domestication of the flock by the shepard being only a recent occurance in the greater scheme of things.)

Save yourself and your progeny from domestication. Worry not for those destined ultimately for the butcher's blade.

XNN

 

[tomveil]

My friend thinks i'm crazy that i'm going to vote for Ron Paul and has basically criticized me everyday since I decided to support him on the daily basis. I asked her if she thinks the government knowing everything you do is fine and she said "Yeah, I don't give a shit."

Sweet.

Walk in on her while she's sleeping.

Or taking a shower.

Read over her shoulder while she's on the net.

Listen in on her phone calls.

"Thought you didn't give a shit?"

 

[HOLLYWOOD]

Nah...

Just declare MARTIAL LAW when you feel like it and take her bank accounts without due process of the law and see what she thinks?

How about keeping residential property values ARTIFICIALLY HIGH, so that the government can COLLECT MORE/MAINTAIN TAX REVENUES. Yeah, the public doesn't give a SH*T, but in for another AWAKING... oh and that's hidden behind the "NATIONAL SECURITY" policy.

Wait you'll see...

 

[Devil_rules_in_extremes]

My friend thinks i'm crazy that i'm going to vote for Ron Paul and has basically criticized me everyday since I decided to support him on the daily basis. I asked her if she thinks the government knowing everything you do is fine and she said "Yeah, I don't give a shit."

People like your friend scare the living day lights out of me.... I'm so afraid of simple minded people who are so willing to give up their God given rights to the government.

 

[catscratch]

Hi - as that friend you are all referring to, Id like to clear things up for you a bit.

When I said that, it was about ohhh I'm not sure, the 80th conversation we had that week about Ron Paul. Wait let me correct that - it wasn't a conversation, it was Warrior_of_Freedom trying to bully me again into voting for someone I didn't want to.

Over the past few months we have had many conversations about Dr. Paul. I agreed with him on some issues, and disagreed on others, just like most people with most candidates. When I asked questions pertaining to Pauls views, I was told to look it up myself, OR given a response of "what ever you are a sheep, why don't you just go vote for Guiliani."

I repeatedly asked him to stop talking to me about Dr. Paul and politics altogether because all it was doing was causing fights between us. Not because I was disagreeing on everything, but because one word from me questioning a Paul stance threw him into an insulting rage, repeatedly calling me a sheep and that I am brainwashed.

So yes, I did say that I didnt give a shit about that, because after months of Ron Paul causing nothing but fights between someone I considered to be my best friend - I just wanted him to shut up about it. Hell, even before that I told him I would vote for Paul simply because he asked - but that didn't even stop him from going on and on, insulting me and other members of my family because we share different opinions on certain things.

Now, my message to you Ron Paul followers is that - maybe people think you are crazy because you come off as assholes? None of you know me or the situation, yet you all decided that he should ditch me because I am a "sheep to be slaughtered" Bullying people into doing what you want them to do doesn't work. I don't know if this is how you all react to non-Paul supporters, but I find it disgusting that you would tell someone to ditch someone they care about because they said something out of complete frustration.

 

[ArrestPoliticians]

My friend thinks i'm crazy that i'm going to vote for Ron Paul and has basically criticized me everyday since I decided to support him on the daily basis. I asked her if she thinks the government knowing everything you do is fine and she said "Yeah, I don't give a shit."

slap her in her mouth

 

[QCB79]

Take heart.

Most sheep believe what the shepard tells them. After all, he only has their best interest at heart, right? So, when he says that uncastrated rams are dangerous (except in controlled situations) then he must be believed. When he says that they don't need rams to watch over the flock, that sheepdogs are much better, then why should the flock question? Only a ram would dare point out that the sheepdog shares 99.8% of the wolf's DNA, and that rams managed for millions of years to prevent their kind from being wiped out by wolves. (The domestication of the flock by the shepard being only a recent occurance in the greater scheme of things.)

Save yourself and your progeny from domestication. Worry not for those destined ultimately for the butcher's blade.

XNN

That was great!!!! I love it!

 

[TFH85]

When I asked questions pertaining to Pauls views, I was told to look it up myself, OR given a response of "what ever you are a sheep, why don't you just go vote for Guiliani."

It is true that you must do the research yourself. People can tell you all the great things about Dr. Paul, but if you don't go out and actively research and find out what is going on by yourself, than I would still consider you apathetic.

Digging deeper than television, newspapers, and the MSM is what the Freedom movement is all about. Don't trust the media.

With that said, what do you know now? Unlearn it. Relearn everything you think you know about all the candidates and look at things from a new perspective. I can guarantee that you will support Dr. Paul if you do this. Logically, he is the only one that makes sense. That is why his supporters get frustrated and these situations occur. We do not understand why everyone isn't in love with his message, instead they are content with what they are fed by the MainStream Media.

Also note that times are tough, and we as supporters who have looked deeply into all the issues surrounding Dr. Paul know that time is an issue. I get really frustrated sometimes, but it is because I love my friends and family (and country) so much that I stress the points. It is not about candidate A or candidate B, it is about freedom. The only man promising that (with the track record to back it) is Dr. Ron Paul.

All the other candidates of 'change' were preselected so that you think you have a choice, when in reality they all are saying the same thing, just in different ways.

 

[raystone]

Hi - as that friend you are all referring to, Id like to clear things up for you a bit.

When I said that, it was about ohhh I'm not sure, the 80th conversation we had that week about Ron Paul. Wait let me correct that - it wasn't a conversation, it was Warrior_of_Freedom trying to bully me again into voting for someone I didn't want to.

Over the past few months we have had many conversations about Dr. Paul. I agreed with him on some issues, and disagreed on others, just like most people with most candidates. When I asked questions pertaining to Pauls views, I was told to look it up myself, OR given a response of "what ever you are a sheep, why don't you just go vote for Guiliani."

I repeatedly asked him to stop talking to me about Dr. Paul and politics altogether because all it was doing was causing fights between us. Not because I was disagreeing on everything, but because one word from me questioning a Paul stance threw him into an insulting rage, repeatedly calling me a sheep and that I am brainwashed.

So yes, I did say that I didnt give a shit about that, because after months of Ron Paul causing nothing but fights between someone I considered to be my best friend - I just wanted him to shut up about it. Hell, even before that I told him I would vote for Paul simply because he asked - but that didn't even stop him from going on and on, insulting me and other members of my family because we share different opinions on certain things.

Now, my message to you Ron Paul followers is that - maybe people think you are crazy because you come off as assholes? None of you know me or the situation, yet you all decided that he should ditch me because I am a "sheep to be slaughtered" Bullying people into doing what you want them to do doesn't work. I don't know if this is how you all react to non-Paul supporters, but I find it disgusting that you would tell someone to ditch someone they care about because they said something out of complete frustration.

WOW !!!!!

THIS IS A FIRST FOR RPF !!!!!

AFTER HEARING COUNTLESS STORIES ABOUT "THESE SHEEP FRIENDS" - WE HEAR FIRST HAND FROM "THE SHEEP FRIEND"


catscratch - THANK YOU for joining, even for 1 post, and writing, and keeping your cool, despite the blind attacks you read in this thread.

Sorry for the sheep friend comment, it was the best description to get the point across.

Will you please write again and answer this...what would you need to hear or read for you vote for Ron Paul ? or, if you'll never vote for him, what is your main issue you base your votes on ? and can you tell us you are voting for ?

I'm asking because if we knew the answer, we wouldn't still be polling at less than 10% nationwide.

 

[catscratch]

First I want to tell you both that responded that I am truly appreciate your kind words. I've read a couple of other threads where my friend talked about me and I saw the very cruel responses from other people - which were not only heartbreaking, but was surely not a way to convince me to vote for Dr. Paul.

TFH85: I have done some research. I've looked at the main site many times, and went through and read where he stands on all of the issues listed there. I've also watched a few of the debates - and even agree that he had been totally cut off in the most recent one.

There are certain things he speaks of that I truly do support. He is by far my favorite when it comes to illegal immigrants. I also like his thoughts on the environment, energy and national defense. When it comes to personal privacy and liberties, I can support his ideas. As a graduate student in a library and information science program, we learn intensively the right of the patron to privacy and to be able to fine what ever they may need in their library. Of course there are limits in a school setting (like no porn etc) which is very understandable, but generally speaking librarians are BIG fighters for intellectual freedom.

So here is what I have problems with - either I do not know enough, or I just do not agree I suppose. Education - I am a teacher, my mother was a teacher, so this is very near and dear to my heart. The difficulty I am having is that there will be no federal aid. I understand his want to put the power back to the states and the parents - but knowing that my mothers former school district has had a salary freeze for (at least) 3 years now, and is 50 teachers short of a full staff is scary. I am not sure of the politics that surround it - I am new to the system, but if they have that much of a problem now - I can't imagine that it would get better with less aid.

Homeschooling is another issue. No, I do not have a problem with parents homeschooling their children. What bothers me is that people think anyone can do it. They can't. Teaching, no matter it be to 20 children in a classroom - or just your child at home - it's a skill. You need to learn how to do it. What upsets me even more about it is that people who had bad experiences in school will decide to home school their child when they have NO idea what they are doing, they just think it will be better for the child. Are there bad teachers out there? Yes, but there are also bad parents. My main problem here is that there is no "check" system. I know the kids have to take and pass exams just like any other student - but from what I have read, Dr. Paul doesn't say what he would do in the case of a failing home schooled student. Yes, it could be that the child is unable to learn for whatever reason, but I would say it is more likely that the parent is unable to teach. If the child repetitively fails does Dr. Paul think the government, local - state - or federal - should be able to step in then and put the child into a public school?

The war in Iraq: Do I think it's a good thing? No. I accept the fact that we are there though, and I don't think it is a good idea to just leave. I suppose it is more personal than anything else. I don't find it fair that we went in, but I find it even worse to say "opps, our mistake we will just leave after we've totally destroyed your country." I do not want to go to war with any other country either. I admire how the US was a neutral country for most of our years, and I think it would be good to go back to that.

Without getting too much into it - I am pro-choice as well. I'm glad that you could understand my frustration, and can see that I can be a very rational person when I don't feel like I am being attacked

Edit: forgot to mention who I am voting for. Even though I vote on super Tuesday, I am still not sure. I will not vote for Romney, because I do not know too much about him, but I also heard a radio show where he said Dr. Paul deserves to be laughed at. No matter what I may think of Ron Paul, I would never speak that badly about a person, at least not in such a public place. Huckabee is a no go either. I do believe in God and the Christian religion, but I do not think it has a place in politics.

 

[Agent CSL]

Hey Catscratch.

People are too passive. I am for your friend getting you mad, why? Because before anything is done, first you got to get mad. (See: Network, great speech) ... I noticed some things that immediately stood out to me.

"I told him I would vote for Paul simply because he asked"

"I was told to look it up myself"

I see two vital problems there. First, you'd vote for the president of your country because someone asked you to? Second, you have some kind of issue looking up information? You don't look up the information because, why? You avoid arguments? Why?

I would never force my view upon someone who didn't want it. However, that doesn't mean that I wouldn't try to make them a little angry or argumental before I was finished, it would do them some good.

Go down the rabbit hole. It's very deep.

 

[Goldwater Conservative]

Now, my message to you Ron Paul followers is that - maybe people think you are crazy because you come off as assholes? None of you know me or the situation, yet you all decided that he should ditch me because I am a "sheep to be slaughtered" Bullying people into doing what you want them to do doesn't work. I don't know if this is how you all react to non-Paul supporters, but I find it disgusting that you would tell someone to ditch someone they care about because they said something out of complete frustration.

It has nothing to do with not supporting Paul and everything to do with the comment "Yeah, I don't give a shit." about whether it's right that government knows everything you do. We're very open here to introducing people to Paul, clearing up misconceptions about him, etc., even if we're not able to sway some, but we don't pull punches about those who openly proclaim that they're okay with being slaves (and there really are people who don't mind). The comments in this thread are only in reference to the version of the story as presented by the OP. Don't take it so personally, it's only the Internet.

 

[catscratch]

Agent CSL: As I am still an undecided voter, I would choose to vote for Paul because he asked me to because I trust his opinion. More so - saying I would vote Paul to make my friend back off a bit and actually voting for him are two different things.

I have no problem looking up things myself. What I do have a problem with is that when I asked a clear question in a discussion he brought up, I would never get an answer. We often talked about Paul wanting to eliminate taxes. OK, fine. I asked what Dr. Paul planned to do for a federal income in place of taxes. If you come to me trying to convince me of something, you should know more about it than just a sentence worth. After I asked that question I was told to just vote for someone who wanted to keep taxes because I'm too stupid to care. Yah - that is really going to make me want to look something up.

Also - theres a difference between getting mad and aggressive about a candidate and being just a jerk. You can't convince someone to vote for Paul by getting mad and saying "you are an idiot for not agreeing with him."

 

[Goldwater Conservative]

The difficulty I am having is that there will be no federal aid. I understand his want to put the power back to the states and the parents - but knowing that my mothers former school district has had a salary freeze for (at least) 3 years now, and is 50 teachers short of a full staff is scary. I am not sure of the politics that surround it - I am new to the system, but if they have that much of a problem now - I can't imagine that it would get better with less aid.

If the money isn't spent at the federal level, federal taxes can be cut. If federal taxes are cut, state or local taxes can be raised. What's the difference? The money and decision-making is now closer to home, teachers, students, families, etc. Besides, 90% of the money and decision-making is already at the state or local level. It was even more before the disastrous No Child Left Behind came into the picture.

Homeschooling is another issue. No, I do not have a problem with parents homeschooling their children. What bothers me is that people think anyone can do it. They can't. Teaching, no matter it be to 20 children in a classroom - or just your child at home - it's a skill. You need to learn how to do it.

I'm sure others will argue the effectiveness of homeschooling, but as a matter of principle it shouldn't matter even if it isn't as good. The state doesn't own your child. If there's no abuse or neglect, there's no grounds for stripping a child from his/her home.

That said, Paul would leave this issue up to the states.

The war in Iraq: Do I think it's a good thing? No. I accept the fact that we are there though, and I don't think it is a good idea to just leave.

"Attacks against British and Iraqi forces have plunged by 90 percent in southern Iraq since London withdrew its troops from the main city of Basra, the commander of British forces there said Thursday."

It's logical that if the target of most violence leaves, violence will drop. If you stick your hand in a bucket of snakes, of course they'll bite. The only way to make the biting stop is take your hand out.

Without getting too much into it - I am pro-choice as well.

Don't worry, Paul would defer to the states on abortion.

And I'm glad to see you're not just here to defend your honor but to engage in some healthy dialogue.

 

[Agent CSL]

So here is what I have problems with - either I do not know enough, or I just do not agree I suppose. Education - I am a teacher, my mother was a teacher, so this is very near and dear to my heart. The difficulty I am having is that there will be no federal aid. I understand his want to put the power back to the states and the parents - but knowing that my mothers former school district has had a salary freeze for (at least) 3 years now, and is 50 teachers short of a full staff is scary. I am not sure of the politics that surround it - I am new to the system, but if they have that much of a problem now - I can't imagine that it would get better with less aid.

Homeschooling is another issue. No, I do not have a problem with parents homeschooling their children. What bothers me is that people think anyone can do it. They can't. Teaching, no matter it be to 20 children in a classroom - or just your child at home - it's a skill. You need to learn how to do it. What upsets me even more about it is that people who had bad experiences in school will decide to home school their child when they have NO idea what they are doing, they just think it will be better for the child. Are there bad teachers out there? Yes, but there are also bad parents. My main problem here is that there is no "check" system. I know the kids have to take and pass exams just like any other student - but from what I have read, Dr. Paul doesn't say what he would do in the case of a failing home schooled student. Yes, it could be that the child is unable to learn for whatever reason, but I would say it is more likely that the parent is unable to teach. If the child repetitively fails does Dr. Paul think the government, local - state - or federal - should be able to step in then and put the child into a public school?

Here's the issue with federal funded schools.
"We give you money, you teach what we want to be taught. If you don't, we pull your funding."

Schools have been failing because of an outcome-based system that relies on attitudes and state test scores rather than grades. The curriculum doesn't engage students enough. The teachers also encourage students to "tattle" on their parents. The UN education system is slowly being implemented into the US system. The UN believes it's the right of the state to teach children, not the right of the parent. When you have these things combined you have a very scary situation in which the child can blackmail a parent, and in the whole scheme of things, it's the state blackmailing the parent.

I was a homeschool student. In my area there is a community program here, funded by the local district and local taxpayers, that is a place for homeschoolars to come together and get taught by teachers and parents alike. It's a very open program. Parents can come and sit in on classes. Parents discuss the curriculum. Our test scores are high for state tests!

I am a firm believer that the education system is failing and that a community-based approach via homeschool or local funding is much better than a state-funded system that tears families apart and stresses kids.

See: Deliberate Dumbing Down

 

[Goldwater Conservative]

We often talked about Paul wanting to eliminate taxes. OK, fine. I asked what Dr. Paul planned to do for a federal income in place of taxes.

Paul wants to cut spending before abolishing taxes (although even in the interim he wants to get rid of taxes on tips, Social Security benefits, and other sources of income). The first area he'd cut is overseas, where we spend several hundred billion dollars a year maintaining our military presence in over a hundred countries. That alone could let us slash the personal income tax by a huge fraction (I don't have the numbers, but I've seen a range of estimates), since it accounts for about $1.2 trillion in revenue.

Other areas to cut spending would be the entitlement programs, where Paul would allow young people to opt out of the system. It would take longer to trim that spending, but at least he'd be laying the groundwork to phase those programs out and bring fiscal sanity back to our country's budget. We face a major crisis in the long-run otherwise.