How the Indiana GOP Convention Went 6/02

[joebeeson]

How the Indiana GOP Convention Went 6/02

Total rubber stamping of McCain republicanism,

Indiana GOP changed the rules in the last couple days to not allow nominations of National Delegates from each Caucus .

They allowed the party to appoint the delegates before the caucuses met (this is legal for them to change the rules under the state constitution-ugh!)

Each Congressional district held it own caucus (meeting) about 110 per room (caucus)

Ron Paul people tried to get information and motion to nominate from the present caucus

Points of information we left open or ignored.



Roberts Rules were not followed.



District three (lake county indiana) was reportedly close to the majority of those present in their caucus on and were shut down. Hand vote requested, Vote came back like 40-67 (something along that figure) even though those present(ron paulers) did not see that majority in the room.

*{correction from latter post 06/04 byRP4US -THANKS!: This is in response to Joe Beeson: Actually in District 3 the vote was 97 yes's and 68 no's but there were only 105 delegates present so the numbers don't add up and they lied when they counted. Unfortunately no one caught this mistake until later.}


Ron Paulers did not flash any signs or buttons, and this was the mistake of the day.

Even though there we so many of us, not one could tell who we were, in hindsight wearing those buttons we should have done, be open, it's all we got, they are rubber stamping everything, republicans are going to loose big time and apparently this is ok with them, WEAR THE BUTTONS, IT’S ALREADY SET AGAINST US, LET THEM KNOWWE ARE THERE!(I thought)

final note,

Ron Paulers huddled in the corner about 30 of us toward the end of the day, Governor Mitch Daniels walks into the convention and sees us and curiously wondered to me what was up, i told this was the Ron Paul supporters and that we were licking our wounds because the party changed the rules at the last second and we weren't allowed to vote for representation as national delegates,

then, A sweet young girl from our group gave the governor a hug out of the blue, and he was charmed and stood there with us for about 5 minutes, the Ron Paul people already had our list of grievances convenient enough(that we were prepared to hand the media) instead they were presented to him in writing and the group got to spill their hearts to him, quite a moment, then can the clincher, the Attorney General whom all us Ron Paulers supported won by 300 votes(they announced), there were about 300 of us What was funny, a ron paul runner come out and announces that our guy (Greg Zoeller) won while we were still speaking with Mitch and we all cheered, Mitch must of been pissed at that moment his AG he endorsed did not win.

 

[jsgolfman]

District 4 here, same thing happened in our caucus as well. There was no nomination of candidates for delegate, just the 3 delegates and their alternates. The whole thing was a joke, with the exception of AG Zoeller. I think we were out of our caucus within 30 -40 minutes.

 

[Sandra]

How the Indiana GOP Convention Went 6/02

Total rubber stamping of McCain republicanism,

Indiana GOP changed the rules in the last couple days to not allow nominations of National Delegates from each Caucus .

They allowed the party to appoint the delegates before the caucuses met (this is legal for them to change the rules under the state constitution-ugh!)

Each Congressional district held it own caucus (meeting) about 110 per room (caucus)

Ron Paul people tried to get information and motion to nominate from the present caucus

Points of information we left open or ignored.



Roberts Rules were not followed.



District three (lake county indiana) was reportedly close to the majority of those present in their caucus on and were shut down. Hand vote requested, Vote came back like 40-67 (something along that figure) even though those present(ron paulers) did not see that majority in the room.



Ron Paulers did not flash any signs or buttons, and this was the mistake of the day.

Even though there we so many of us, not one could tell who we were, in hindsight wearing those buttons we should have done, be open, it's all we got, they are rubber stamping everything, republicans are going to loose big time and apparently this is ok with them, WEAR THE BUTTONS, IT’S ALREADY SET AGAINST US, LET THEM KNOWWE ARE THERE!(I thought)

final note,

Ron Paulers huddled in the corner about 30 of us toward the end of the day, Governor Mitch Daniels walks into the convention and sees us and curiously wondered to me what was up, i told this was the Ron Paul supporters and that we were licking our wounds because the party changed the rules at the last second and we weren't allowed to vote for representation as national delegates,

then, A sweet young girl from our group gave the governor a hug out of the blue, and he was charmed and stood there with us for about 5 minutes, the Ron Paul people already had our list of grievances convenient enough(that we were prepared to hand the media) instead they were presented to him in writing and the group got to spill their hearts to him, quite a moment, then can the clincher, the Attorney General whom all us Ron Paulers supported won by 300 votes(they announced), there were about 300 of us What was funny, a ron paul runner come out and announces that our guy (Greg Zoeller) won while we were still speaking with Mitch and we all cheered, Mitch must of been pissed at that moment his AG he endorsed did not win.

No, it is NOT legal to change the rules last minute as stated in the RNC rules. No state can amend this rule. All rules MUST be submitted to the RNC by the second Tuesday in September the year before the election. Get familiar with the rules and don't let someone spoonfeed crap to you anymore. www.gop.org

http://www.gop.com/About/AboutRead.aspx?Guid=a4cc4fcb-6043-4af2-860a-41ae912a2c42

 

[Sandra]

(15)(11) No delegates or alternate delegates shall be selected pursuant to any Republican Party rule of a state or state law which materially changes the manner of selecting delegates or alternate delegates or the date upon which such state party holds a presidential primary, caucus, convention, or meeting for the purpose of voting for a presidential candidate and/or selecting delegates to the national convention if such changes were adopted or made effective after the first Tuesday in September of the year before the year in which the national convention is to be held. Where it is not possible for a state party to certify the manner and the date upon which it holds a presidential primary, caucus, convention, or meeting for the purpose of voting for a presidential candidate and/or selecting delegates to the national convention in effect in that state on the date and in the manner provided in paragraph (e) of this rule, the process for holding the presidential primary, caucus, convention, or meeting for the purpose of voting for a presidential candidate and/or selecting delegates to the national convention shall be conducted in the same manner and held upon the same date as was used for the immediately preceding national convention. If it is not possible to hold a presidential primary, caucus, convention, or meeting for the purpose of voting for a presidential candidate and/or selecting delegates to the national convention upon the same date as was used for the immediately preceding national convention, then delegates or alternate delegates shall be selected by congressional district or state conventions pursuant to paragraph (d) of this rule.

+1000

 

[Hancock1776]

Exactly. They tried to tell us that rule changes unanimously approved by the committee could happen at any time.

But that doesn't apply to delegate selection rules.

I was in district 3 as well. They were personable enough, but just wouldn't listen.

 

[Hancock1776]

The answer to all this, of course, is simple: be the committee.

We have 2 years. GET TO IT!

 

[Fyretrohl]

So, how did the violate rule 15? Did the change how you elected delegates? Or, did they simply use a loophole and changed how the VETTED candidates to be delegates?

Also, do you have a copy of the rule they supposedly changed so you can show that the change was material and prevented an honest convention?

 

[Bobby Johnson]

No, it is NOT legal to change the rules last minute as stated in the RNC rules. No state can amend this rule. All rules MUST be submitted to the RNC by the second Tuesday in September the year before the election. Get familiar with the rules and don't let someone spoonfeed crap to you anymore. www.gop.org

http://www.gop.com/About/AboutRead.aspx?Guid=a4cc4fcb-6043-4af2-860a-41ae912a2c42

Hey Sandra,
Yes, I agree its not legal. However, why wouldn't the RNC allow Indiana party officials break the rules in order to support McCain? Do you honestly think the RNC will penalize the leaders at the state level for working to suppress Ron Paul's supporters even if its against the rules?

Call me suspicious and cynical if you wish. I think the RNC leadership knows full well what is going on, does not want Ron Paul as the candidate, and is secretly supporting state leaders as they work, through legel or illegal means, to keep Ron Paul supporters out of the national convention. I have no proof of this, just my opinion.

 

[Sandra]

You have to challenge in spite of that. Louisiana is the only state that is legally challenged by the RP campaign that I know of, but LA cannot sent their delegates to St Paul until a decision is handed down. After all this time the RNC still has not handed down a decision. The official challenge is in the Louisiana section of the www.ronpaul08.com website in PDF.

 

[acptulsa]

You have to challenge in spite of that. Louisiana is the only state that is legally challenged by the RP campaign that I know of, but LA cannot sent their delegates to St Paul until a decision is handed down. After all this time the RNC still has not handed down a decision. The official challenge is in the Louisiana section of the www.ronpaul08.com website in PDF.

Right. We need the delegates challenged from every state where the Republicans broke their own rules. Keep challenging and keep talking about those challenges until we can make enough noise to get the whole ugly process judged in the court of public opinion. We need to be hot enough about this to spontaneously ignite a wildfire whether they keep pissing on us to put us out or not!

 

[Hancock1776]

What I know for absolute certain is that there is something vital to the delegate selection process that we wanted to discuss before voting on the delegate slate, and the chair IGNORED OUR ENTREATIES COMPLETELY.

 

[INforRP]

In that 20 minutes or so that we had Daniels (the governor) off to the side, some of us took the opportunity to mention some of the issues on our minds. I mentioned that I couldn't find any good information on his stance on REAL ID, that it was a very important issue to many of us that it be opposed at the state level. His response was "well I'd like to find a way to oppose it..." At which time, I think it was Charlie, that spoke up and said "well how about the Constitution!?" Daniels mumbled something like: well yeah it does infringe upon personal freedom or something but then quickly turned his head from me and changed the subject.

At least he realizes that a significant voting block in his state is concerned about issues such as this and if he takes the AG defeat seriously (as he should), maybe he won't keep ignoring some of these issues that the media buries. Being there when we were celebrating the AG win, hopefully makes him realize that we can swing some votes our way even if we don't have a majority.

 

[WRellim]

Hey Sandra,
Yes, I agree its not legal. However, why wouldn't the RNC allow Indiana party officials break the rules in order to support McCain? Do you honestly think the RNC will penalize the leaders at the state level for working to suppress Ron Paul's supporters even if its against the rules?

Call me suspicious and cynical if you wish. I think the RNC leadership knows full well what is going on, does not want Ron Paul as the candidate, and is secretly supporting state leaders as they work, through legel or illegal means, to keep Ron Paul supporters out of the national convention. I have no proof of this, just my opinion.

Actually, not only is it very likely that the RNC is *aware* of the violations, it is far more likely that the violations are happening at the behest of the RNC as a means of creating the illusion of "unity"... my frens.

And who knows, maybe the RNC changes ITS rules...

 

[Sandra]

Actually, not only is it very likely that the RNC is *aware* of the violations, it is far more likely that the violations are happening at the behest of the RNC as a means of creating the illusion of "unity"... my frens.

And who knows, maybe the RNC changes ITS rules...

Even at the national level the Republican Party is fracturing. Constant fights about low tactics and the Republican "brand". Even audit demands by some committee members netted the arrest of the treasurer. Some RNC are creating enough havoc to expose the splintering process.

Keep challenging!

 

[Hancock1776]

Is there a way to challenge the delegate slate after the convention then?

 

[Sandra]

A challenge can be started after any infraction. If the violation in change of rules occured at the convention, thhen the RNC rules state that it can be challenged.

 

[RP4US]

This is in response to Joe Beeson: Actually in District 3 the vote was 97 yes's and 68 no's but there were only 105 delegates present so the numbers don't add up and they lied when they counted. Unfortunately no one caught this mistake until later.

I am glad that third district got about 45 minutes of discussion and question time with the Allen County Chairman. It was good.

 

[joebeeson]

This is in response to Joe Beeson: Actually in District 3 the vote was 97 yes's and 68 no's but there were only 105 delegates present so the numbers don't add up and they lied when they counted. Unfortunately no one caught this mistake until later.

I am glad that third district got about 45 minutes of discussion and question time with the Allen County Chairman. It was good.

thanks for the correction!

 

[Armed & Christian]

In that 20 minutes or so that we had Daniels (the governor) off to the side, some of us took the opportunity to mention some of the issues on our minds. I mentioned that I couldn't find any good information on his stance on REAL ID, that it was a very important issue to many of us that it be opposed at the state level. His response was "well I'd like to find a way to oppose it..." At which time, I think it was Charlie, that spoke up and said "well how about the Constitution!?" Daniels mumbled something like: well yeah it does infringe upon personal freedom or something but then quickly turned his head from me and changed the subject.

That's really interesting, considering I have been banging heads with Mitch over REAL ID for almost a year.His response is invariably some variation of "the federal government says they need it to fight terrorism, and if they say that they need it, then we're going to comply." I have challenged him on the logistics of it, the fact that it is utterly unconstitutional, and that many people will refuse to comply on religious grounds. He doesn't care. I even sent him (and Dan Burton, and our worthless *spit* Senators a copy of The REAL ID Act: Real Tryanny Against Real Americans. In reply, I got a letter from Kara Hodges thanking me for my "active citizenship," and stating that Mitch backed the federal government all the way, and that he was determined to give them the support they need by making Indiana REAL ID compliant before any other State.

 

[jimmartindale]

Let's get the numbers straight

I'm the guy who actually watched the woman count the signatures for the delegates who received credentials for the Third Congressional District caucus in Indy. That's not Lake County. It's Allen, Noble, DeKalb, Steuben and Whitley.

The total signatures was 152. The ayes reported by the chair was 97 and the nays reported were 69 for a total of 176 votes. This represents a discrepancy of 24 votes that came out of thin air just like our paper money.

No doubt if I had realized the vote could have been as close as 4 votes I would have called for a paper ballot. I have sent a complaint to the Secretary of State and received a reply 6/4 that they have no jurisdiction in the matter.

They said the only recourse other than appealing to the same bunch who created the rule changes and violated our rights according to RROO is an attorney and a court of law. Allen County Chair is an attorney and I have reported the entire incident to him including all correspondence with SOS office.

The IN GOP broke RROO when the rules committee slate was presented for adoption as an election ballot. This constitutes having two motions on the floor at the same time, a nomination ballot (or committee report acceptance) and a motion to elect the slated nominees.

This is the type of abuse which one must expect when those in power become a "Law unto themselves". There is no higher authority than themselves. This is the soviet (socialist) paradigm. It has permeated the culture of politics of both parties. This is the dialectic mind at its diabolical best.