How many of you understand the USA just elected a (potentially) brutal dictator?

[GunnyFreedom]

Which O-Bomb-Ya was not too far from either.

You are most likely correct.

I'll still take it over Hillary.

Not Ron, not Rand...just better than the alternative.

alternatives like... Nuclear winter?

 

[Superfluous Man]

Doesn't sound like it to me... I suppose you could just call him a liar as an argument. Not much I can say to you if you think all this is just bull$#@! and he really plans on duping the pissed off masses that he rallied. He'd be the first to hang if his conspiracy to trick the NRA and the rest of gun owner was successful. I think he knows that..

He sure does to me. Yesterday someone posted his position statement on the 2nd Amendment, and it's horrendous.

But yes, you're right, he's a liar to boot.

The fact that you think the NRA is good on protecting the right to keep and bear arms explains why you think Trump is too.

Tell me, how can you say that someone who wants to be able to take away the right to buy guns from anyone he wants just by putting his name on a list with no due process doesn't sound like an ardent opponent of the 2nd Amendment?

How does someone who wants police to stop and frisk people on the street without due process and take guns away from anyone who's carrying them not sound like an ardent opponent of the 2nd Amendment?

 

[newbitech]

Tell me, how can you say that someone who wants to be able to take away the right to buy guns from anyone he wants just by putting his name on a list with no due process doesn't sound like an ardent opponent of the 2nd Amendment?

How does someone who wants police to stop and frisk people on the street without due process and take guns away from anyone who's carrying them not sound like an ardent opponent of the 2nd Amendment?

I know you don't really want to argue, so I'll just answer your questions.

The first question about the no-fly list and buying a gun. If you are on the no fly list, something in your life has raised suspicion. You'll probably need to work that out one way or the other. The last thing someone who is on a no fly list should be thinking about doing is going out and getting a fire arm. To me, this is common sense. If you feel your right has been violated by being on this list, you are going to want to challenge on that basis not on a 2A basis. This isn't a 2A issue.

The second question is almost the same. We have people getting cash confiscated in the same way. The problem here is a property rights question as well as due process.

Both of these are criminal justice issues, not 2A issues.

By saying "ardent opponent of 2A" you are conflating the issues and muddying the waters. This is not an argument, its sensationalist rhetoric. That's fine for getting an emotional response from people looking for any reason to not like what is going on. It doesn't really stick to Trump tho. None of that sensationalist crap does.

You'll just have to wait and see and perhaps listen to other opinions of Trump coming from non biased frame of mind.

 

[newbitech]

Just a quick follow up to my reasoning, the markets also disagree that Trump is an "ardent opponent of 2a"

http://seekingalpha.com/article/4022961-ruger-smith-and-wesson-far-bottom

 

[AZJoe]

Member when Obama supporters blamed Iraq, Gitmo torture and drone programs on Bush? I member.

Yes, under Bush executive power greatly expanded and he left those powers to Obama. And Obama seized on those expanded powers feverishly becoming the master of drone assassinations, starting wars, bombing nations, spying on American, ramping up the NSA spying ten fold, prosecuting more people under the espionage act than all of his predecessors. Not only that, he expanded the executive powers five fold faster than they were under Bush. These dictatorial powers Obama abused and greatly expanded - that is the legacy Obama and his supporters have left to Trump. When the Obamites complain about executive abuse of power by Trump, they have only to look in the mirror and blame themselves for giving him this "gift".

 

[Superfluous Man]

The first question about the no-fly list and buying a gun. If you are on the no fly list, something in your life has raised suspicion.

Yep, something in your life has merely raised suspicion for someone in the executive branch working for Trump. It could be your religion. It could be the books you checked out of the library. It could be your anti-Trump postings on Ron Paul Forums. And there's no requirement that you actually have committed any crime and been found guilty of it. The mere suspicion on their part, according to their values and discretion, is all it takes, and they can ban you from buying a gun. This could be expanded to stop the entire country from buying guns if a president wanted to without any further act of Congress, and make it so that instead of specially selecting people to stop from buying weapons, they specially select the ones they want to allow to buy them. And even if Trump didn't want to (and don't be so sure he doesn't), the power would pass to someone else, eventually someone who would want to use it that way.

Nobody who supports this is anything remotely close to a supporter of the 2nd Amendment.

And yes, that includes the NRA.

The second question is almost the same. We have people getting cash confiscated in the same way. The problem here is a property rights question as well as due process.

I'll say that's a problem. Are you OK with that?

And you don't understand that someone who wants to do that with guns is an opponent of the right to keep and bear arms?

 

[Superfluous Man]

Just a quick follow up to my reasoning, the markets also disagree that Trump is an "ardent opponent of 2a"

http://seekingalpha.com/article/4022961-ruger-smith-and-wesson-far-bottom

Oh how wrong they are.

 

[AZJoe]

You don't get it. THUMP has ALREADY said he's in FAVOR OF ALL THESE

Yes, but who gave Trump these powers to abuse?
Obama and his blind supporters are the ones that actually left him these powers.
They loved it then when Obama abused the power. They should be thrilled when Trump does.
The point is now they are afraid of these powers, but they have only themselves to blame.

 

[tod evans]

So here we have the left wanting to jerk guns from people accused of domestic upheaval...

And the ummm, right wanting to jerk guns from people accused of anti-government beliefs...

Sure doesn't seem to be much difference to me...


When government is better armed than the citizenry there's a big problem.

When the citizenry accepts this there's an even bigger problem.

 

[scm]

Yes, but who gave Trump these powers to abuse?
Obama and his blind supporters are the ones that actually left him these powers.
They loved it then when Obama abused the power. They should be thrilled when Trump does.
The point is now they are afraid of these powers, but they have only themselves to blame.

NO, YOU gave these powers to THUMP by pandering and voting for him, YOU helped this turd get where he is, I DIDN'T, Obama Didn't, YOU DID, you and all the other shitbags that voted for him. And now he's going to use them on who? Guess we will have to wait and see. You have yourself to tank for our enslavement.

BTW, you also gave him a MAJORITY in the house AND senate. I'de HATE to say it, but If hillary won, they could of used that power against her and could of stripped all these overreaching powers from the untrustworthy bitch. Nope, the maniac got full control.

 

[TommyJeff]

I was thrilled to see Hillary lose, but let's get real about what we have:

• Trump endorses torture "much worse" than waterboarding.
• He is rarely (if ever) heard using the words "individual freedom".
• Donald is a rich, spoiled child who never had to grow up and could easily turn into a very brutal dictator.
• This list could be much longer, if I had more time.

What is happening to this forum, do you people actually believe he will save us from tyranny?

Your first two points are fair, but that third one is kind of random speculation. Because he's rich he could easily be a dictator?! You have plenty of facts to point out, id stick to those.

 

[AZJoe]

NO, YOU gave these powers to THUMP by pandering and voting for him, you helped this turd get where he is, I DIDN'T and Obama Didn't, YOU DID, and now he's going to use them on who? You have yourself to tank for our enslavement.

(Quit the giant size all capital words. Its more readable when you don't make it look like a cartoon. )

SCM, is erroneously stuck in the false belief that you just need the right dictator to abuse the dictatorial powers. They have no problem with the totalitarian powers. They falsely believe they just need the correct benevolent dictator to wield them. The real issue however, is not the personality wielding the power, but the the power itself. Take away the power and it does not matter who holds office.

For folks like SCM, its not the horrendous totalitarian powers, its just that the dictatorship needs to wear the right colored jersey. "If only Hitlary Clinton inherited these powers to start WW3, then everything would be fine and wonderful." As long is it is my [SCM's] choice for dictator then all the abuse and death and murder and spying and theft and war is A-OK.

What authoritarians like SCM refuse to accept is that noone should have such power - not Obama, not Bush, not Trump, and especially not Hitlary.
The president should have so little power over our lives that it doesn't matter who is elected to the office.

 

[Working Poor]

Trump has the full force of the establishment against him.

That is at least the narrative but do you really believe it?

 

[scm]

(Quit the giant size all capital words. Its more readable when you don't make it look like a cartoon. )

SCM, is erroneously stuck in the false belief that you just need the right dictator to abuse the dictatorial powers. They have no problem with the totalitarian powers. They falsely believe they just need the correct benevolent dictator to wield them. The real issue however, is not the personality wielding the power, but the the power itself. Take away the power and it does not matter who holds office.

For folks like SCM, its not the horrendous totalitarian powers, its just that the dictatorship needs to wear the right colored jersey. "If only Hitlary Clinton inherited these powers to start WW3, then everything would be fine and wonderful." As long is it is my [SCM's] choice for dictator then all the abuse and death and murder and spying and theft and war is A-OK.

Hi Joe, 2016 here, just wanted to keep you updated. We haven't officially announced it yet, but WW3 has ALREADY started. Check out this guy, he's doing a great job reporting it.

What authoritarians like SCM refuse to accept is that noone should have such power - not Obama, not Bush, not Trump, and especially not Hitlary.
The president should have so little power over our lives that it doesn't matter who is elected to the office.

I agree with Ron Paul on this one.

 

[UWDude]

That is at least the narrative but do you really believe it?

I watched it with my own eyes. I saw people being censored on Twitter. I read the wikileaks emails where google and facebook conspired with the campaign to censor Trump support, and put in newsfeeds when friends bashed Trump or praised Clinton. There is no doubt the establishment hates him.

 

[newbitech]

Yep, something in your life has merely raised suspicion for someone in the executive branch working for Trump. It could be your religion. It could be the books you checked out of the library. It could be your anti-Trump postings on Ron Paul Forums. And there's no requirement that you actually have committed any crime and been found guilty of it. The mere suspicion on their part, according to their values and discretion, is all it takes, and they can ban you from buying a gun. This could be expanded to stop the entire country from buying guns if a president wanted to without any further act of Congress, and make it so that instead of specially selecting people to stop from buying weapons, they specially select the ones they want to allow to buy them. And even if Trump didn't want to (and don't be so sure he doesn't), the power would pass to someone else, eventually someone who would want to use it that way.

Nobody who supports this is anything remotely close to a supporter of the 2nd Amendment.

And yes, that includes the NRA.



I'll say that's a problem. Are you OK with that?

And you don't understand that someone who wants to do that with guns is an opponent of the right to keep and bear arms?

Both issues of no fly list and cash confiscation are problems. Just not 2A problems. I get that you are bundling it all together. I happen to disagree. There is not a gun grab going on here.

No I am not ok with cash confiscation. That is stealing property. It's not just about taking guns. I have just as much right to my cash as to my gun. The way you are making your argument, anything that Trump does that you don't like can be consider anti-2a.

I think you should refine your argument.

The largest 2A lobby AND the markets disagree with you. It must be a rather compelling argument IMO. Many folks here disagree with you too, folks who have been following along the ideals of Ron Paul for quite some time. Not sure if you have been following along, doesn't matter IMO, but you've got a TON of convincing to do if you want me to believe Trump is anti-2A.

Even more to convince me he's gonna be a dictator.

 

[newbitech]

Oh how wrong they are.

So you are anticipating demand to increase? Did you call your broker and "buy the dip" yet? Better get on it before the market corrects!

 

[undergroundrr]

Donald trump enters office in January a corrupt man. Lord Acton can fill in the rest for you.

 

[BV2]

On the bright side, maybe this cheato will finally impress upon the young the value of individual liberty when he tramples what is left of it. Here in chitown i witnessed/was with tens of thousands listening to them chant, "not my president." Hypocrisy withstanding, it was music to my ears. I hope Rand has been doing bladder enlarging excersizes- alot of filibuster in his future... if he is, as Ron says, 99% in line with his father.

And yeah, cheato is likely going to make Obama look like he deserved that peace prize. Who did the vast majority of police vote for? But, as Rothbard said and I agree its better that Amerkan brutality be domestic than exported.

I hear now he is gonna go ahead with that wall fence of his
I hope he plasters his gaudy name on the American side so we can be reminded who built the first physical wall of prison united states.

What is exceptional about America? We actually vote for our tyrants...other places have them foisted upon them. Reading reports that John Bolton is on the short list for sec of state.

 

[Superfluous Man]

On the bright side, maybe this cheato will finally impress upon the young the value of individual liberty when he tramples what is left of it. Here in chitown i witnessed/was with tens of thousands listening to them chant, "not my president." Hypocrisy withstanding, it was music to my ears.

This.

Any erosion of trust in the legitimacy of the regime in Washtington, DC, is a good thing.