How does one lose their salvation?

[Brett85]

Mark 6:18 For John had been saying to Herod, “It is not lawful for you to have your brother's wife.”
Notice John did not refer to Herodias as Phillip’s ex-wife but rather simply wife. Additionally if God forgives divorce without repentance then why didn’t John the Baptist just tell Herod to confess and you can continue in your current lifestyle? Jesus had this to say about him in Matthew 11:11 Truly, I say to you, among those born of women there has arisen no one greater than John the Baptist. Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. Here are a couple verses that would seem to back up my stance that we are still under the law and you can lose your salvation.

The Bible is clear that divorce and remarriage are acceptable in cases of adultery, and adultery is very common these days. There are valid reasons for divorce and remarriage. I also don't believe the Bible says that if someone gets divorced and remarried they then have to get divorced from their new wife before they can actually repent and be forgiven.

 

[TN_VOL]

and these verses as well where Paul is talking about how salvation has come to the Gentiles, while many Jews had rejected it. And he makes it very clear that once you have been grafted into Christ, you must “continue in His kindness,” or you can also be cut off. So, even after you’ve been saved, you can still be cut off from Jesus Christ.

Romans 11:17-23 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. 19 Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. 23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again.

 

[TN_VOL]

The Bible is clear that divorce and remarriage are acceptable in cases of adultery, and adultery is very common these days. There are valid reasons for divorce and remarriage. I also don't believe the Bible says that if someone gets divorced and remarried they then have to get divorced from their new wife before they can actually repent and be forgiven.

If adultery is an accepted reason for remarriage then why isn't that exception mentioned in Mark and Luke where the same story is told? The reason is because the book of Matthew was specifically written for the Jews and during that time a couple were considered husband and wife prior to a marriage ceremony taking place,as was the case with Mary and Joseph. Once a Jewish couple decided they would marry they entered a betrothal period which would typically last anywhere from nine months to a year. During that time the Husband was expected to prepare a home and the Wife would be watched over by family and friends in order that the she did not partake in any sexual immorality(adultery). Although it if she did then the Husband could divorce his Wife even though no ceremony or consummation had taken place, but they were still considered Husband and Wife up until the Husband divorced his Wife. The Jews at this time would have not understood this teaching if this exception were not mentioned the book of Matthew, but as mentioned earlier it is not mentioned anywhere else in the Bible. These verses should be helpful.

Matthew 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ took place in this way. When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child from the Holy Spirit. 19 And her husband Joseph, being a just man and unwilling to put her to shame, resolved to divorce her quietly.

 

[Kevin007]

nov 2007, only that many posts?

 

[jmdrake]

Mark 6:18 For John had been saying to Herod, “It is not lawful for you to have your brother's wife.”
Notice John did not refer to Herodias as Phillip’s ex-wife but rather simply wife. Additionally if God forgives divorce without repentance then why didn’t John the Baptist just tell Herod to confess and you can continue in your current lifestyle? Jesus had this to say about him in Matthew 11:11 Truly, I say to you, among those born of women there has arisen no one greater than John the Baptist. Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. Here are a couple verses that would seem to back up my stance that we are still under the law and you can lose your salvation.

1 John 2:3-5 And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, 5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him

John 15:14 If we love Jesus he tells us we will keep his commandments.

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

Matthew 5:17-21 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least vin the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great vin the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Herodias did not have a lawful divorce. According to Josephus:

Herodias took upon her to confound the laws of our country, and divorced herself from her husband while he was alive, and was married to Herod Antipas.

John the Baptist would have been operating under the law of Moses and the law of Moses gave men the right to divorce their wives. Nowhere in the Old Testament is there the reciprocal ability for a woman to divorce her husband.

But don't take my word for it. See: https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?qs_version=KJV&quicksearch=divorce&begin=1&end=46

 

[erowe1]

What person looking for genuine love would force them to love them against their will?

I never said anything about forcing anyone against their wills.

 

[moostraks]

I never said anything about forcing anyone against their wills.

 

[erowe1]

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But there is no possible sense in which anything I said could be interpreted as meaning that God forces someone to love Him against their wills.

 

[moostraks]

But there is no possible sense in which anything I said could be interpreted as meaning that God forces someone to love Him against their wills.

 

[Christian Liberty]

The Bible is clear that divorce and remarriage are acceptable in cases of adultery, and adultery is very common these days. There are valid reasons for divorce and remarriage. I also don't believe the Bible says that if someone gets divorced and remarried they then have to get divorced from their new wife before they can actually repent and be forgiven.

I don't necessarily disagree with you but its not "clear". There is debate over whether one can remarry after one's partner commits adultery, and there is debate over whether someone who gets illegitimately divorced and then remarried is now in a legitimate relationship.

 

[jmdrake]

I don't necessarily disagree with you but its not "clear". There is debate over whether one can remarry after one's partner commits adultery, and there is debate over whether someone who gets illegitimately divorced and then remarried is now in a legitimate relationship.

What is clear is that Herodius was not legally divorced under Jewish law so the appeal TN_Vol made to that story is invalid.

 

[jmdrake]

But does God categorize them as those things? Or does He reckon them righteous, with the righteousness of Christ, given to them by faith and not works?

Notice the next verse:


Notice that it doesn't say, "And such were some of you. But then you stopped sinning."

Notice that it doesn't say "And such were some of you. But then you kept on committing the same habitual sins without any change or growth or remorse whatsoever." What is your understanding of the word "Sanctified"? We are not saved by faith and works but by a faith that works. If the faith never makes any change in the believers life whatsoever, is it faith?

 

[erowe1]

Notice that it doesn't say "And such were some of you. But then you kept on committing the same habitual sins without any change or growth or remorse whatsoever." What is your understanding of the word "Sanctified"? We are not saved by faith and works but by a faith that works. If the faith never makes any change in the believers life whatsoever, is it faith?

Sanctified means set apart.

I agree that we are saved by a faith that works. But the works are not a condition for salvation. My point was that 1 Corinthians doesn't make God's reckoning of someone as righteous to be contingent on their achievement of that righteousness in practice.

Notice the list of sins is not just some especially bad sins. It runs the gamut. The day someone stops ever doing any of them is the day they stop sinning completely. But in God's eyes, that perfect righteousness already belongs to everyone who has faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[jmdrake]

Sanctified means set apart.

Well that's one definition. Here are all of them.

https://net.bible.org/#!bible/1+Corinthians+6
1) to render or acknowledge, or to be venerable or hallow 2) to separate from profane things and dedicate to God 2a) consecrate things to God 2b) dedicate people to God 3) to purify 3a) to cleanse externally 3b) to purify by expiation: free from the guilt of sin 3c) to purify internally by renewing of the soul

Notice that one of the definitions is "to purify internally by the renewing of the soul". God doesn't seek merely to save us and set us apart. He works inside us to change us. All of that is sanctification.

I agree that we are saved by a faith that works. But the works are not a condition for salvation. My point was that 1 Corinthians doesn't make God's reckoning of someone as righteous to be contingent on their achievement of that righteousness in practice.

Notice the list of sins is not just some especially bad sins. It runs the gamut. The day someone stops ever doing any of them is the day they stop sinning completely. But in God's eyes, that perfect righteousness already belongs to everyone who has faith in Jesus Christ.

Ummmm....that makes no sense. You're saying that someone who quits fornicating necessarily stops sinning altogether? That's a provably false statement.

 

[Kevin007]

Well that's one definition. Here are all of them.

https://net.bible.org/#!bible/1+Corinthians+6
1) to render or acknowledge, or to be venerable or hallow 2) to separate from profane things and dedicate to God 2a) consecrate things to God 2b) dedicate people to God 3) to purify 3a) to cleanse externally 3b) to purify by expiation: free from the guilt of sin 3c) to purify internally by renewing of the soul

Notice that one of the definitions is "to purify internally by the renewing of the soul". God doesn't seek merely to save us and set us apart. He works inside us to change us. All of that is sanctification.



Ummmm....that makes no sense. You're saying that someone who quits fornicating necessarily stops sinning altogether? That's a provably false statement.

I believe erowe is saying we are perfect, through Christ and His imputed righteousness. We are white as snow in God's eyes even if we sin because Jesus died for our sins.

 

[erowe1]

Well that's one definition. Here are all of them.

https://net.bible.org/#!bible/1+Corinthians+6
1) to render or acknowledge, or to be venerable or hallow 2) to separate from profane things and dedicate to God 2a) consecrate things to God 2b) dedicate people to God 3) to purify 3a) to cleanse externally 3b) to purify by expiation: free from the guilt of sin 3c) to purify internally by renewing of the soul

Notice that one of the definitions is "to purify internally by the renewing of the soul". God doesn't seek merely to save us and set us apart. He works inside us to change us. All of that is sanctification.

That's good that you're looking at all the meanings of sanctify. The word is used for various different things in the Bible. Sometimes it refers to a lifelong process that God brings believers through making them more and more holy. Sometimes it refers to God's setting apart of the elect in eternity past before they believed. In 1 Corinthians 6 it refers to the once for all event that happens when the believer believes and is justified.

Ummmm....that makes no sense. You're saying that someone who quits fornicating necessarily stops sinning altogether? That's a provably false statement.

No. The passage doesn't just mention fornicators. Here's the list: fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, homosexuals, nor sodomites, thieves, covetous, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners. Notice also that before giving this list Paul uses the general term "unrighteous." He's not just talking about certain kinds of unrighteousness, but all kinds.

The justification he's talking about, where people no longer are any of these things, nor any other kind of unrighteous person, is perfect justification. If he's talking about people experientially ceasing to do the things listed, then that would entail not sinning any more at all. But that's not what he's talking about. He's talking about God reckoning people as righteous, with a righteousness that they didn't attain by their own works, but rather the righteousness of Jesus Christ imputed to them.

 

[erowe1]

I believe erowe is saying we are perfect, through Christ and His imputed righteousness. We are white as snow in God's eyes even if we sin because Jesus died for our sins.

Yes.

 

[Kevin007]

Bible Verses About Imputed Righteousness

Bible verses related to Imputed Righteousness from the King James Version (KJV) by Relevance

- Sort By Book Order



2 Corinthians 5:21 - For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Isaiah 53:11 - He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Philippians 3:9 - And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

1 Peter 2:24 - Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Galatians 2:16 - Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Romans 5:1 - Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Romans 4:3 - For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

1 Corinthians 1:30 - But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

Romans 5:17 - For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Romans 1:17 - For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Jeremiah 23:6 - In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this [is] his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Philippians 2:13 - For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.

Ephesians 2:9 - Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Galatians 2:20 - I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Romans 4:24 - But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

Romans 4:8 - Blessed [is] the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Romans 1:16-17 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. (Read More...)

Acts 16:31 - And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

1 John 3:7 - Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Romans 5:18 - Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life.

Romans 4:5 - But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Romans 3:26 - To declare, [I say], at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Romans 3:25 - Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Romans 3:22 - Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Romans 3:21 - But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Romans 3:10 - As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Acts 2:38 - Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

John 14:6 - Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bible-Verses-About-Imputed-Righteousness/

These are just some of the many verses proving Imputed Righteousness. Made perfect because of Jesus' perfect one time sacrifice for us- those who accept Him as personal Savior.

 

[erowe1]

Bible Verses About Imputed Righteousness

Bible verses related to Imputed Righteousness from the King James Version (KJV) by Relevance

- Sort By Book Order



2 Corinthians 5:21 - For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Isaiah 53:11 - He shall see of the travail of his soul, [and] shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

Philippians 3:9 - And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

1 Peter 2:24 - Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Galatians 2:16 - Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Romans 5:1 - Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Romans 4:3 - For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

1 Corinthians 1:30 - But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

Romans 5:17 - For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Romans 1:17 - For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Jeremiah 23:6 - In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this [is] his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Philippians 2:13 - For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure.

Ephesians 2:9 - Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Galatians 2:20 - I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Romans 4:24 - But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

Romans 4:8 - Blessed [is] the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Romans 1:16-17 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. (Read More...)

Acts 16:31 - And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

1 John 3:7 - Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Romans 5:18 - Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life.

Romans 4:5 - But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Romans 3:26 - To declare, [I say], at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Romans 3:25 - Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Romans 3:22 - Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Romans 3:21 - But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Romans 3:10 - As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Acts 2:38 - Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

John 14:6 - Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bible-Verses-About-Imputed-Righteousness/

These are just some of the many verses proving Imputed Righteousness. Made perfect because of Jesus' perfect one time sacrifice for us- those who accept Him as personal Savior.

Another favorite of mine is 1 Corinthians 1:30. It always reminds me of John Bunyan's testimony as told in his, Grace Abounding to the Chief of Sinners.

But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption—

One day as I was passing into the field, this sentence fell upon my soul: “Thy righteousness is in heaven.” And with the eyes of my soul I saw Jesus at the Father’s right hand. “There,” I said, “is my righteousness!” So that wherever I was or whatever I was doing, God could not say to me, “Where is your righteousness?” For it is always right before him.

I saw that it is not my good frame of heart that made my righteousness better, nor yet my bad frame that made my righteousness worse, for my righteousness IS Christ. Now my chains fell off indeed. My temptations fled away, and I lived sweetly at peace with God.

Now I could look from myself to him and could reckon that all my character was like the coins a rich man carries in his pocket when all his gold is safe in a trunk at home. Oh I saw that my gold was indeed in a trunk at home, in Christ my Lord. Now Christ was all: my righteousness, sanctification, redemption.

http://www.thegospelcoalition.org/b...h/2012/06/05/your-righteousness-is-in-heaven/

 

[Kevin007]

yep, erowe- we see ourselves as sinners (as we should), but the Father sees us as perfect; just like He is looking at Jesus. Jesus' perfect life of no sin is applied directly to us- like we had never sinned. Our position in Jesus was sealed the moment we invited Him to be our Savior. Our position is permanent and unchanging with the Father.