hey everyone, been a long while..

[Working Poor]

Great to see you again!

So, while we have you here, how about telling us what youre learning about Vaccines? There is always a big difference between what is the Truth and what is Taught. Just curious what your own experiences have taught you about the Politics of Vaccines in school?

I look forward to Kotin's reply on this.

 

[juleswin]

hey everyone.. its been quite a while since I have been around here.. I am entering my 3rd year of medical school and man its been a whirlwind.. I have to say that I have missed all of you and being around people who understand individual liberty and property rights.. the medical field is very much full of socialists and people who just are so far from my own line of thinking..

and no, I have not deviated from where I started all those years ago in 2007.. if anything it has been reinforced and I do see the necessity of a true free market in medicine..

but aside from all that I wanted to touch base here and see how everyones doing, what has changed, what has stayed the same.. this is a place that I still hold very dear and have some very fond memories of.

Welcome back Kotin, glad to see that you are doing well in school and you still support free market principles. Anyway, do u still watch UFC and if yes, who do have for the Usman (Nigerian Nightmare) vs Woodley?

 

[Kotin]

Great to see you again!

So, while we have you here, how about telling us what youre learning about Vaccines? There is always a big difference between what is the Truth and what is Taught. Just curious what your own experiences have taught you about the Politics of Vaccines in school?

here is the thing, you cannot question vaccines in this setting.. and I will be honest, I believe in the scientific principles behind vaccination.. its just that its not as simple as saying all vaccines are good or bad and these people dont want to have a nuanced debate about the safety of certain ingredients and especially adjuvants that are put into vaccine formulas.. I have great concerns about say aluminum salts because there has not been enough research to say that they are safe and they are related in some form or fashion to developing autoimmune disorders and just overactive immune system responses that deviate from the purpose of the vaccine..

and in general, vaccines are ok for most people but there is a subset of the population that has more severe reactions to vaccines and adjuvants than others but this cannot be talked about or debated or investigated without people calling you an anti-vaxxer or some pejorative term..

the science of vaccines is not simple and everyone's immune response is not black and white and is determined by many factors that I think the industry would rather ignore because it is a very nuanced problem and it doesnt affect or harm enough people for them to feel any liability.. I mean, my understanding is you cannot even sue if you have a severe reaction to a vaccine and that is quite strange is it not?

so its not an easy answer but the industry and medical establishment is not willing to research or look into these things it which is a disservice to us all especially those who are predisposed for whatever reason to having a severe reaction to vaccines.. and the vaccine schedule for children also is concerning as giving that many vaccines so quickly and so close together does not seem logical to me..

I worry that there currently is little incentive for vaccine manufacturers to research this topic more and improve safety and test adjuvants properly due to the lack of legal liability that they have... for me, with my own patients I will be looking out for people who have a family history of adverse reactions to vaccines and take that carefully into account when looking at their own vaccine schedule and maybe slowing it down a bit and avoiding certain adjuvants..

 

[Kotin]

Welcome back Kotin, glad to see that you are doing well in school and you still support free market principles. Anyway, do u still watch UFC and if yes, who do have for the Usman (Nigerian Nightmare) vs Woodley?

oh I definitely do!!! thats a good fight and I think it will be a good test for Usman to see if he is as badass as he thinks.. he hasnt really fought any really highly ranked fighters yet so this will let us know if his talk is for real.. he is a great fighter no doubt but woodley is very strategic and I think will have a good gameplan coming into this one

I am very interested in the other fights on that card as well... really hoping Lawler can best Askren but man Askren is such a high level grappler and i worry he may just wrestle-fuck lawler to a decision or finish as he has done so many times.. I love Lawler and am rooting for him tho he may want to retire soon he has taken so many significant strikes to the head at this point..

 

[Kotin]

Hi Kotin, glad you are back! I'm briefly here...today!

yesssss! aratus!! haha good to see you around as well

 

[William Tell]

Welcome back man!

 

[juleswin]

here is the thing, you cannot question vaccines in this setting.. and I will be honest, I believe in the scientific principles behind vaccination.. its just that its not as simple as saying all vaccines are good or bad and these people dont want to have a nuanced debate about the safety of certain ingredients and especially adjuvants that are put into vaccine formulas.. I have great concerns about say aluminum salts because there has not been enough research to say that they are safe and they are related in some form or fashion to developing autoimmune disorders and just overactive immune system responses that deviate from the purpose of the vaccine..

and in general, vaccines are ok for most people but there is a subset of the population that has more severe reactions to vaccines and adjuvants than others but this cannot be talked about or debated or investigated without people calling you an anti-vaxxer or some pejorative term..

the science of vaccines is not simple and everyone's immune response is not black and white and is determined by many factors that I think the industry would rather ignore because it is a very nuanced problem and it doesnt affect or harm enough people for them to feel any liability.. I mean, my understanding is you cannot even sue if you have a severe reaction to a vaccine and that is quite strange is it not?

so its not an easy answer but the industry and medical establishment is not willing to research or look into these things it which is a disservice to us all especially those who are predisposed for whatever reason to having a severe reaction to vaccines.. and the vaccine schedule for children also is concerning as giving that many vaccines so quickly and so close together does not seem logical to me..

I worry that there currently is little incentive for vaccine manufacturers to research this topic more and improve safety and test adjuvants properly due to the lack of legal liability that they have... for me, with my own patients I will be looking out for people who have a family history of adverse reactions to vaccines and take that carefully into account when looking at their own vaccine schedule and maybe slowing it down a bit and avoiding certain adjuvants..

This is excellent. You, know first time I came to this country, I would get the flu vaccine and I always get a light fever the first couple of days after the shot, I told this to my PCP and she thought it was in my head. To this day, I still get a small fever everytime I get the flu vaccine. To some people, this automatically makes you an anti vaxxer. Btw, this only happens to one other of my sibling.

Vaccines are not black and white, people are different and have allergies to things that you would not imagine so it shouldn't be out of the ordinary to see that there are people who have severe reaction to vaccines. I didn't think you would reply to this but I am glad you did. This gives some credibility to some of us who are not 100% down with taking every and all vaccines reccommended to us by the CDC.

 

[juleswin]

oh I definitely do!!! thats a good fight and I think it will be a good test for Usman to see if he is as badass as he thinks.. he hasnt really fought any really highly ranked fighters yet so this will let us know if his talk is for real.. he is a great fighter no doubt but woodley is very strategic and I think will have a good gameplan coming into this one

I am very interested in the other fights on that card as well... really hoping Lawler can best Askren but man Askren is such a high level grappler and i worry he may just wrestle-$#@! lawler to a decision or finish as he has done so many times.. I love Lawler and am rooting for him tho he may want to retire soon he has taken so many significant strikes to the head at this point..

Come back and check in after the bout, I think Woodley is on the decline. Injuries from all the gym wars and octagon wars will tilt the balance in Kamaru's favor. I dunno if you can tell but I am stoked about the fight

Askren v Lawler, I think its a match up nightmare for him. I see Askren putting him on his ass and wearing him out. Its UFC feeding their old to the young and shinny new thing.

 

[angelatc]

I told my son last night that the anti-vaxxer who went to medical school had popped in, and he asked how that went. I told him I didn't engage on the topic because it always starts a bunch of crap, but it was only a matter of time until someone else did, and I'd jump in then. I said I would absolutely go there, but I wasn't gonna drive.

I'm riding bitch.

and in general, vaccines are ok for most people but there is a subset of the population that has more severe reactions to vaccines and adjuvants than others but this cannot be talked about or debated or investigated without people calling you an anti-vaxxer or some pejorative term..

Those are the people who need to be protected by the community immunity. Which is what makes the quackery and conspiracies so evil.

. I mean, my understanding is you cannot even sue if you have a severe reaction to a vaccine and that is quite strange is it not?

Not that you can't sue. The cases are heard by a Special Master, because juries composed of laymen aren't qualified to make medical determinations. Strictly speaking, the burden of proof is less in the Special Master's office than it would be in a court of law, but the lawyers can't depend on tugging on the heartstrings of gullible jurors to win awards, which is exactly what was happening after the Wakefield debacle.

its not an easy answer but the industry and medical establishment is not willing to research or look into these things it which is a disservice to us all especially those who are predisposed for whatever reason to having a severe reaction to vaccines.. and the vaccine schedule for children also is concerning as giving that many vaccines so quickly and so close together does not seem logical to me..

Vaccines are probably the most researched medicine in history. And not providing protection ASAP to the children most likely to suffer the most adverse consequences of the diseases is far less logical. There is no evidence that the current vaccine schedule causes any harm. There are centuries of evidence that diseases do.

 

[Kotin]

I told my son last night that the anti-vaxxer who went to medical school had popped in, and he asked how that went. I told him I didn't engage on the topic because it always starts a bunch of crap, but it was only a matter of time until someone else did, and I'd jump in then. I said I would absolutely go there, but I wasn't gonna drive.

I'm riding bitch.



Those are the people who need to be protected by the community immunity. Which is what makes the quackery and conspiracies so evil.



Not that you can't sue. The cases are heard by a Special Master, because juries composed of laymen aren't qualified to make medical determinations. Strictly speaking, the burden of proof is less in the Special Master's office than it would be in a court of law, but the lawyers can't depend on tugging on the heartstrings of gullible jurors to win awards, which is exactly what was happening after the Wakefield debacle.



Vaccines are probably the most researched medicine in history. And not providing protection ASAP to the children most likely to suffer the most adverse consequences of the diseases is far less logical. There is no evidence that the current vaccine schedule causes any harm. There are centuries of evidence that diseases do.

haha, you are free to your opinion.. and I think we probably have more agreement than disagreement.. but I will still keep a cautious approach to adjuvants and various vaccine formulations.. the principle of vaccination is not something I argue, its the details about how we go about formulating the safest vaccines that we can...

but using pejoratives like anti-vaxxer is not very mature.. nor is it accurate. it is a strawman.. and its the same one I get from many in my field.. its not good enough and its a disservice to those who have legitimate ab-reactions to vaccinations. we must get this right for everyone not just most people.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

It’s like a family reunion of the class of ‘07! (And now that the greetings and niceties are out of the way...).

 

[Kotin]

It’s like a family reunion of the class of ‘07! (And now that the greetings and niceties are out of the way...).

lol, I know right?! as much as things change, many stay the same

 

[TER]

Good to hear from you! Enjoy med school as much as you can! Residency is fun, but a whole different meaning to word ‘work’!

 

[Kotin]

Good to hear from you! Enjoy med school as much as you can! Residency is fun, but a whole different meaning to word ‘work’!

haha thanks!! and yes that is what I hear as well... at least it will be medicine though, the first two years are just memorizing everything under the sun in like 20-30 disciplines and regurgitating it back out. I really enjoy clinical work.

 

[TER]

haha thanks!! and yes that is what I hear as well... at least it will be medicine though, the first two years are just memorizing everything under the sun in like 2-30 disciplines and regurgitating it back out. I really enjoy clinical work.

The most fun will during your rotations in the last 2 years. You get to learn to practice medicine without the stress of getting sued! Lol! Enjoy it!

Have you thought of which field you might want to do?

 

[axiomata]

Hey look, it's an OG. Glad to see you back.

 

[Kotin]

The most fun will during your rotations in the last 2 years. You get to learn to practice medicine without the stress of getting sued! Lol! Enjoy it!

Have you thought of which field you might want to do?

Family Medicine is what I have been wanting for a long time.. that could change but I really love everything about it.

 

[TER]

Family Medicine is what I have been wanting for a long time.. that could change but I really love everything about it.

That’s great. You will be in high demand, though urgent cares centers are changing the landscape. The pay is not great for FM, and because of regulations, most end up working for large groups (not many left of the small private family doc offices in many places). But you get to grow with your patients and their families and the most caring doctors I know are in FM. Don’t think of pay and stuff. Find what makes you happiest and you are most passionate about, and pursue it. That is the advice I give to students. The most miserable doctors I know are the ones who went into a field for money reasons.

 

[Anti Federalist]

here is the thing, you cannot question vaccines in this setting.. and I will be honest, I believe in the scientific principles behind vaccination.. its just that its not as simple as saying all vaccines are good or bad and these people dont want to have a nuanced debate about the safety of certain ingredients and especially adjuvants that are put into vaccine formulas.. I have great concerns about say aluminum salts because there has not been enough research to say that they are safe and they are related in some form or fashion to developing autoimmune disorders and just overactive immune system responses that deviate from the purpose of the vaccine..

and in general, vaccines are ok for most people but there is a subset of the population that has more severe reactions to vaccines and adjuvants than others but this cannot be talked about or debated or investigated without people calling you an anti-vaxxer or some pejorative term..

the science of vaccines is not simple and everyone's immune response is not black and white and is determined by many factors that I think the industry would rather ignore because it is a very nuanced problem and it doesnt affect or harm enough people for them to feel any liability.. I mean, my understanding is you cannot even sue if you have a severe reaction to a vaccine and that is quite strange is it not?

so its not an easy answer but the industry and medical estab

I worry that there currently is little incentive for vaccine manufacturers to research this topic more and improve safety and test adjuvants properly due to the lack of legal liability that they have... for me, with my own patients I will be looking out for people who have a family history of adverse reactions to vaccines and take that carefully into account when looking at their own vaccine schedule and maybe slowing it down a bit and avoiding certain adjuvants..

A rational and sane response, as I would have expected.

I owe you another rep.

 

[Anti Federalist]

lol, I know right?! as much as things change, many stay the same

Sadly, we've lost a few along the way.

Shem and Amy hurt the most I think.