Help With Parents who

[Wesley123]

I'm a Senior in high school and a big fan of Ron Paul. I liked him in the previous Republican Presidential primary, and this cycle I've been following the campaign rather closely (at least closer than anybody else I know). I've basically convinced my parents Ron Paul is a good choice for president, but the problem is that I haven't convinced them he's the best choice for president.

Last night, during the debates, my mother told me she likes Michelle Bachmann best, and my father clapped for Newt Gingrich. However, my dad hasn't actually said who he wants to vote for. I don't want to be hostile against these two characters in the eyes of my parents, especially Gingrich, Cain, or Bachmann (Perry's another story). I just want to convince them that Ron Paul is the better choice. They already like him, and even agree with him on a whole lot of issues, including (to an extent) on foreign policy, but if they don't vote for him it really doesn't matter much.

Any advice?

 

[Sola_Fide]

Have them watch this video:



We have only one chance to vote for the Thomas Jefferson of our day. In the primaries at least, true conservatives should vote on principle.

 

[refuge]

I'm dealing with the same thing, both with my mother and father. Now, it's currently just with my father.

Grab a copy of For Liberty ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GR4WYqabTxU ), and pick a "Family Night" to watch it. I watched it with my mom and now she really likes RP; I got a friend to watch it, and he likes the man now as well. I'm going to try to sit my father down this weekend to see it.

To paraphrase from another member, the video not only does an excellent job at explaining who Ron Paul is, but it also usually turns the viewer into a supporter.

 

[sickmint79]

what are there hot issues? a lot of republicans seem to be with paul until they hit foreign policy. blowback by chalmers johnson (ex-cia) is good. imperial hubris is probably the best single book of scheuer's if you're going to only pick one (ex-lead of cia's bin laden unit). if they will only read one then do the latter. it's a clear, compelling, and well sourced argument.

 

[low preference guy]

Wait a few months before trying too hard. They might drop out, especially Newt.

 

[MJU1983]

Have them watch this video:



We have only one chance to vote for the Thomas Jefferson of our day. In the primaries at least, true conservatives should vote on principle.

Just re-watched this. Forgot how good it was! If this doesn't work, I don't know what will. LOL

 

[Wesley123]

Thanks for the responses, I'll definitely try the videos. Already used a Youtube downloader and got the recut For Liberty on DVD. Downside: I didn't do my homework last night because I had problems with it downloading, but it was worth it.

what are there hot issues? a lot of republicans seem to be with paul until they hit foreign policy. blowback by chalmers johnson (ex-cia) is good. imperial hubris is probably the best single book of scheuer's if you're going to only pick one (ex-lead of cia's bin laden unit). if they will only read one then do the latter. it's a clear, compelling, and well sourced argument.

My parents aren't really big readers. I mean, they can read, and the have read, but they don't have enough time (or so they say).

Here's a more detailed run down of my parents:
*They watch O'Reilly (I like watching him some too, but he can be a jerk).
*They watch Hannity.
*They like Huckabee
*Since we live in Kentucky, they voted for Rand in both the primary and general election.
*We all go to our local Tea Party meetings (which I'll probably need help on convincing next).
*My dad likes Rush Limbaugh.
*They like Glenn Beck. (I do too, but less and less the more he preaches "Israel, Israel.")
*My dad likes both Cheney and Bush, so does my mom but I don't think as much.

Like I said, mom likes Bachmann and dad (though not actually confirmed) seems to like Newt Gingrich.
My mom told me that we might end up voting for the same person, if Bachmann drops out, which is good. However, I have less of an idea about my dad. I have to make sure that Paul is his man somehow.

And yes, I realize this may be a long term effort.

 

[sickmint79]

how are their commutes; books on tape?

i'm not sure what good documentaries there are in regards to foreign policy, i think there's a few on iraq. i'm not sure how accurate the power of nightmares is, it's very good though. it would be good to get them interested on something like that and maybe pass them a book afterwards. i wasn't much of a reader myself for quite some time, until i realized how much i was missing.

 

[WilliamC]

Sadly enough most parents don't want to listen to their kids advice about money, love, or politics.

You may be an exception, but if your folks don't take you seriously, don't get too down on them.

They're just old.

Like me.

edit; as for advice, I find the socratic method quite useful myself.

 

[Tarzan]

Later... not right now, too early as noted above... ask them to do it for you as a personal favor that will affect the nature of America and YOUR future.

Here is an interesting thread... http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...s-EASY!-(another-vote)&highlight=Late+20s+dad

 

[dannno]

edit; as for advice, I find the socratic method quite useful myself.

Wow ya fo sheezee.. if you can pull it off, that's pretty much the only way I debate.

 

[Tarzan]

OK... some disagreement here. Without trying to start a post war, here we go.

The Socratic method SUCKS!!! It uses manipulation and questions designed to attempt and trap the opponent in the discussion. It is not a genuine means of honest discourse when truly trying to discuss any subject. There is a reason Socrates was executed... he was so freakin' annoying they were tired of listening to him.

Keep your discussions open and honest... forget using the Socratic method unless you want to piss off your parents (and anyone else on whom you attempt to use it).


As Socrates said in his final use of the method given his name:
"I drank What???"

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I'm a Senior in high school and a big fan of Ron Paul. I liked him in the previous Republican Presidential primary, and this cycle I've been following the campaign rather closely (at least closer than anybody else I know). I've basically convinced my parents Ron Paul is a good choice for president, but the problem is that I haven't convinced them he's the best choice for president.

Last night, during the debates, my mother told me she likes Michelle Bachmann best, and my father clapped for Newt Gingrich. However, my dad hasn't actually said who he wants to vote for. I don't want to be hostile against these two characters in the eyes of my parents, especially Gingrich, Cain, or Bachmann (Perry's another story). I just want to convince them that Ron Paul is the better choice. They already like him, and even agree with him on a whole lot of issues, including (to an extent) on foreign policy, but if they don't vote for him it really doesn't matter much.

Any advice?

Ask your dad how he feels about having Newt Gingrich in office...the man who dumped his wives and had affairs numerous times and pretended to be some kind of "christian" politician.

 

[dannno]

OK... some disagreement here. Without trying to start a post war, here we go.

The Socratic method SUCKS!!! It uses manipulation and questions designed to attempt and trap the opponent in the discussion. It is not a genuine means of honest discourse when truly trying to discuss any subject. There is a reason Socrates was executed... he was so freakin' annoying they were tired of listening to him.

Keep your discussions open and honest... forget using the Socratic method unless you want to piss off your parents (and anyone else on whom you attempt to use it).


As Socrates said in his final use of the method given his name:
"I drank What???"

What??

What happens when his parents ask why the world won't fall apart when drugs are legalized?

Why can't he ask them what happens to drug prices when they are made illegal and ask what happened when alcohol was made illegal and point to increased profit margin as the motivation behind criminals increasing their marketshare as much as possible as sales are driven underground, which takes away the protection that is normally afforded to voluntary transactions and drastically increases crime?

The idea is you LEAD them to the answer by thinking about the issue differently than it has been presented to them. Instead of telling them the answer, the Socratic method simply leads them somewhere, and sometimes it is an uncomfortable place the person doesn't want to go. But that is merely showing how well the method works, it causes maximum cognitive dissonance. An intellectually honest person will deal with this and ultimately agree if the arguments are sound.

 

[Tarzan]

What??

What happens when his parents ask why the world won't fall apart when drugs are legalized?

Why can't he ask them what happens to drug prices when they are made illegal and ask what happened when alcohol was made illegal and point to increased profit margin as the motivation behind criminals increasing their marketshare as much as possible as sales are driven underground, which takes away the protection that is normally afforded to voluntary transactions and drastically increases crime?

The idea is you LEAD them to the answer by thinking about the issue differently than it has been presented to them. Instead of telling them the answer, the Socratic method simply leads them somewhere, and sometimes it is an uncomfortable place the person doesn't want to go. But that is merely showing how well the method works, it causes maximum cognitive dissonance. An intellectually honest person will deal with this and ultimately agree if the arguments are sound.

See? This is a perfect example of people trying to be manipulative using the Socratic Method.
Great example danno!

 

[dannno]

See? This is a perfect example of people trying to be manipulative using the Socratic Method.
Great example danno!

What is wrong with leading somebody to the answer using their own logic?

 

[WilliamC]

OK... some disagreement here. Without trying to start a post war, here we go.

The Socratic method SUCKS!!! It uses manipulation and questions designed to attempt and trap the opponent in the discussion. It is not a genuine means of honest discourse when truly trying to discuss any subject. There is a reason Socrates was executed... he was so freakin' annoying they were tired of listening to him.

Keep your discussions open and honest... forget using the Socratic method unless you want to piss off your parents (and anyone else on whom you attempt to use it).


As Socrates said in his final use of the method given his name:
"I drank What???"

Well declarative arguments can be fun too.

Because I said they were!

 

[Tarzan]

What is wrong with leading somebody to the answer using their own logic?

What makes you think you have the answer?


And that's an example of how a Socratic debate proceeds until it breaks out in gunfire (or someone drinking hemlock). If you actually answer the question... without using another question... you lose the debate. So, each side has to be constantly on the attack and have the conviction they are right... or, the intent to win the argument in favor of their own preconceived notions. Its not about exchanging ideas... its about winning regardless of the cost or damage done.

Well declarative arguments can be fun too.
Because I said they were!

Good One!!!

 

[WilliamC]

What makes you think you have the answer?


And that's an example of how a Socratic debate proceeds until it breaks out in gunfire (or someone drinking hemlock).




Good One!!!

The socratic method is only duplicitous if one is trying to hide ones premises or motives.

If one is up-front about one's position, it can be edifying.

Word.

 

[Son of Detroit]

I have no specific tips, only to offer some moral support. I somehow converted both of my parents and they are both voting for Ron Paul in 2012. I don't really know what worked, but I just know it did. Just keep talking and talking, showing vids, and they'll come around. My dad is almost as passionate as I am now!

Good luck!