Help with neocon Father

[kylejack]

Would love to but most of the people that I know don't give a damn about politics or the world. They are too caught up in their pathetic lives of reality tv and other trivialities. Whenever I bring up politics, it is usually met with hostility.

Phonebank and find Ron Paul voters in Iowa.

 

[Nate-ForLiberty]

Would love to but most of the people that I know don't give a damn about politics or the world. They are too caught up in their pathetic lives of reality tv and other trivialities. Whenever I bring up politics, it is usually met with hostility.

You're a good person which means you want to share the truth with the people you care about the most. Part of waking up is leaving some people behind. That doesn't mean they are no longer in your life, but it does mean that your life begins to expand beyond their scope. It will feel a little lonely at times, but you can't save everyone. It just doesn't work that way. People begin to wake up when they choose. You can't make that choice for them. Your energy is best spent on phone from home.

When you become successful, they will come to you.

 

[Revolution9]

Would love to but most of the people that I know don't give a damn about politics or the world. They are too caught up in their pathetic lives of reality tv and other trivialities. Whenever I bring up politics, it is usually met with hostility.

Talk about it with your mom when he is around. When he butts in tell him you will be glad to discuss politics with him once he is informed as well as your mother is... His beef is yer supposed to be learning from him. When his ego on this is blown there will be cognitive dissonance. "My offspring thinks they know more about politics than me??!!" At that point lead him to lead you to RP with your mom's help.. Tell her "pillow talk".

Rev9

 

[Luieburger]

I grew up with a liberal, Clinton-loving mother and a conservative Bush-loving father. Most of my grandparents, aunts, and uncles loved bush. Thankfully some of my family now love Ron Paul. However, my parents were both registered independent before WA state got rid of party registration in favor of (pick your party's ballot) type voting.

I don't know who my dad supports, but he says "If Ron Paul gets the nomination I'll vote for him" (basically, anybody but Obama). He probably supports Gingrich. My mom doesn't say much about Ron when I talk to her about the topic. I think somewhere inside she is really tempted to go open-caucus for him because he is truly anti-war, but ultimately she supports Obama no matter what.

My advice to you is, don't waste time trying to teach old dogs new tricks. I can't change my mom, I can't change my dad. They have been around forever, and they are set in their ways. I sent my parents e-mails with a few Ron Paul things here and there that might open their eyes, but I don't put a lot of time into it. Convincing them that they are wrong would only make them defensive (possibly what your dad feels), and make them cling tighter to their ways.

Your time is better spent working for your future, phone banking for Ron, and spreading the message to your younger and more malleable friends. Keep watching debates with your dad, keep spending time with your family. That is good. Just don't worry if your parents don't agree with you. Mine rarely do, so I show up to my Ron Paul HQ regularly and make phone calls, donate, and send out Super-Voter brochures. I talk to my close friends, and I try to organize my precinct for the WA State March 3rd caucuses.

 

[Harald]

Try a different tack. Temporarily agree to disagree on foreign policy.
Let him to agree that Ron Paul is the only guy he can trust to follow through on his domestic agenda and not become compassionate conservative.

Show uniqueness of Ron Paul as a statesman, not a politician. Show that in the entire US history there were very few people and politics who spoke the truth and stick to their convictions no matter what.

Ron Paul is ahead of his time. He does not follow the trends, he sets the trends. He was able to put an issue of the federal reserve in the spotlight.

 

[Johnny Appleseed]

tell him if he's against the Good Dr. then he is against the constitution and thats down right super un-American...also being his son even if what you do say makes him think about the Good Dr. he probably won't let you know given the personality you have portrayed.

 

[Okie RP fan]

Would love to but most of the people that I know don't give a damn about politics or the world. They are too caught up in their pathetic lives of reality tv and other trivialities. Whenever I bring up politics, it is usually met with hostility.

You are not alone. I experience exactly what you do, except not with hostility, but with remarks meant to belittle or make fun of. People just don't care, they are too involved in television or petty things. Just keep up the good work you are doing, do not be discouraged.

As stated, I think it's best you use your energy somewhere else.

Edit: someone today posted that Dr. Paul had the most conservative voting record in the house since the 1930s. I'll try to find it so you can show your dad.

Here is the thread, link is in the first post:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...the-Most-Conservative-House-Member-since-1937

 

[libertyfanatic]

Talk about it with your mom when he is around. When he butts in tell him you will be glad to discuss politics with him once he is informed as well as your mother is... His beef is yer supposed to be learning from him. When his ego on this is blown there will be cognitive dissonance. "My offspring thinks they know more about politics than me??!!" At that point lead him to lead you to RP with your mom's help.. Tell her "pillow talk".

Rev9

This makes sense. Since he is my father, he is supposed to be teaching me, not the other way around. I've brought up politics when they are both together but my mom is not very knowledgeable on the issues and the same things applies to her. My dad feels that since he is "the man" that he should be teaching her too. My mom refuses to vote for Gingrich because of his past and my father just tells her that she needs to get over it.

 

[Brett85]

It was pretty easy to convert my mother to Ron Paul. She has finally woken up to the police state that we now live in. My father on the other hand is a hardcore neocon even though he refutes this. He is extremely closed minded and thinks that he is an expert on politics and the world. A couple of debates ago, I decided to watch the debate with my father. We started talking about Iraq and it ended with him screaming and telling me to get out of his office because I "hate America" after saying that America was a foreign aggressor. A few months ago, he was the biggest Perry supporter. He told me that Rich Perry would cut taxes and spending and repeal Obamacare.

Now he is a Gingrich supporter. He is always talking about how brilliant Newt is and how he is an "idea man." I've tried facts about Newt's past with him but to no avail. I told him how Newt supported an individual mandate in 2005. He replied that everyone changes their mind and if you didn't, then something was wrong with you. He then went on a tirade about how the world changed after 9/11, even though healthcare and 9/11 are not even correlated. What is the best way to deal with people who are extremely closed minded when it comes to politics? The other day, I was telling him about the bill that would essentially suspended the habeas corpus. He refused to acknowledge that such a bill even existed because Bill O'Reilly had not talked about it. I then got him to watch the Judge for a couple of minutes where he talked about the Bill and siad that that was merely his interpretation of the bill. He said that if such a bill existed, then all of the media would be talking about it. It is extremely frustrating dealing with such a person. I really want to convince him to support Ron Paul but I can not break through. All advice is appreciated.

That sounds like my dad, except for the screaming. He's supporting Newt as well.

I won't even waste my time trying to get my dad to support Ron. I wouldn't even bet that he would vote for Ron over Obama.

 

[wide awake]

I would start with the following:

a. Does your Dad consider himself a fiscal conservative?
b. Does your Dad believe that the Federal Budget should be balanced starting in 2013?
c. Does your Dad think that our economy is a greater threat to our nation than Islam?

If he answers yes to these questions, print out the proposed 2012 budget and ask him how he would balance it. Be sure to point out that prior to a year or so ago:
- war funding was not part of the budget
- it was funded through "supplemental and emergency spending"
- the 2012 budget includes war funding under the line item "Overseas Contingency Planning"
- the proposed war funding for 2012 is 181 billion dollars (ask if he really believes that will come anywhere near the direct cost of these wars in 2012)

Next, ask him if he believes in Capitalism.

If he does, ask him if he thinks it is right that the number of no-bid defense contracts have tripled since 9/11??
Ask him if it is capitalism when 39% of our Defense contracts are no-bid and awarded without any competition between defense contractors?

If none of that works... say "Maybe you should be a liberal if you think the government should protect you no matter what it costs."... that won't work, but I love the look on people's faces when I say it after I realize they can't be convinced

 

[rpwasright]

Bud I feel your pain. I started a thread that sounded almost identical to this one a month ago. My dads a stubborn fool but I have got my Mom to seriously consider it. She even asked me what she could do to prepare for a collapse of the dollar. My dad would always try to change the subject when I brought up politics because he knows I'm hardcore libertarian. But about 2 weeks ago I finally got him to have a debate with me. When I tossed down his objections with actually facts he hoped out of his and started yelling at me. Thats the kind of debate these stubborn jackasses give you. I don't don't even bring up the subject anymore expect here recently I have been rubbing Pauls poll numbers in IA in his face (he always talks about how he has no chance). He is completely brainwashed by Fox News and especially Orielly. I want Paul to win if for no other reason I can rub it into his face for 4 years.

 

[Anti Federalist]

That the Muslims that attacked us are crazy and hate us because we are Christians/free and prosperous. I told him about how the CIA overthrew the Iranian government in 1953 and he refused to believe it until I showed him an article on it. He basically refuses to believe anything that has America being wrong. He believes that America is always right.

It's people like your dad, sadly, that would be marching with the neo-Stalinists in Russia right now, looking for a return of the USSR.

Move on to greener pastures, friends and especially family are the toughest nuts to crack.

Familiarity breeds contempt.

 

[Anti Federalist]

That's downright scary, especially when people like that are being urged all day long to:

See Something, Say Something.

I'm in pretty much the same position, I got my mom to support Ron, but my dad is a Romney guy.
My Dad eats up whatever the neocons tell him on foreign policy.
He's so stubborn, I've stopped trying to convince him.

Hey buys into the whole "if you got nothing to hide who cares if they spy on you or can hold you indefinitely etc, they're the government, they're doing it for good reasons etc"

"Hey dad did you know that they can hold you indefinitely now without charges if they think you're helping al queda?"

"So?"

"Its against the constitution...it goes against our rights, what the founding father fought for etc"

"So what?"

...

Sorry I can't be of much help, but I know where you're coming from, believe me.

 

[icon124]

Sorry guy but it sounds like your dad is the group I like to call - dumbasses who destroyed America.

Nothing can save this guy...he thinks he knows everything, but gets all of his ideas from 2-3 hardcore war hawks who profit from us being at war. Shoot him in the face and tell your mom to date someone real.

Lol just kidding about the shoot part...but I wouldn't be mad if I saw one less neo-con on this earth. Just wait until we collapse and then laugh at him hysterically for hours on end...


One question though....does your dad know all the details about Newt? Even the ethics issues, three wives, and the flip flopping? If so, and he still supports this guy that sorry to say this, but your dad has no backbone. or he just likes unethical shady people

 

[libertyfanatic]

Someone earlier mentioned asking him how he would feel if I joined the military and died try to stop Iran from "obtaining" nuclear weapons. I'm going to try this approach next debate and see what he says.

 

[bunklocoempire]

We started talking about Iraq and it ended with him screaming and telling me to get out of his office because I "hate America" after saying that America was a foreign aggressor.

Your father shouldn't be equating people with failed government policies. Our founders didn't.

You certainly don't hate 'America'. Like our founders -who risked everything to break free from empire, you also see the dangers of empire and are simply sounding the alarm.

Our founders weren't blaming people, our founders were blaming policy.

Does your father place failed government policy over the individual? I would think that he actually doesn't, perhaps he hasn't thought it all the way through.

Find a nice way to show him that.

After about 2 years of arguing about 'Muslims', my pop finally converted to Liberty after I sent him this:
http://www.newswithviews.com/baldwin/baldwin455.htm

Good luck! It is possible!

EDIT: My pop is a proud Paul donor this time around! From scared of Paul to donating a decent amount of $'s to Paul in a matter of a couple years.



Bunkloco

 

[Jingles]

I find family and politics don't really mix personally unless they are actually open to what you have to say. I have a bit of a luxury regarding my grandparents and I'll get them in the end. The perceive me as be extremely intelligent and feel if I'm arguing the case for something then I have a very good, sound, intellectual reason to be doing so. Once they finally connect Ron Paul + what I am saying they will be in the bag.

Personally, OP, I wouldn't be able to stand such hostile arguments with a family member and would just stop. If they aren't going to be open to it, it just won't work. Your father seems very prideful and is probably the kind that would take his son being right and him wrong very harshly to his ego. Father's don't like being proven wrong by their sons.

 

[Brett85]

Bud I feel your pain. I started a thread that sounded almost identical to this one a month ago. My dads a stubborn fool but I have got my Mom to seriously consider it. She even asked me what she could do to prepare for a collapse of the dollar.

That's funny. My mom is also much more receptive to Ron Paul than my dad is. I've gotten her to mostly agree with Ron Paul on foreign policy issues. It's just the social issues she has a problem with him on, as she's a hardcore social conservative. My sister said she's actually considering supporting him, and she's not political at all. It seems like older men are more opposed to Ron than any other age group.

 

[SkarnkaiLW]

If he is a hardcore Red vs Blue team player, perhaps show him this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hJTisovvjc&feature=related

and blame 9/11 on Clinton

 

[Eric21ND]

Sit down and watch this with him. See what he says afterward. The end goal is to stop terrorism right? Either by force or other means, well what if other means are more effective? Tell him Scheuer would be Paul's Secretary of State and if he'd rather have Scheuer or Hillary Clinton?