Health Freedom: Freedom for Quacks from pesky government interference.

[James Madison]

So why didn't you answer question #2?

Here it is again:

2. How many people die per year as a result of science-based medicine?

You're begging the question. People who are already very, very sick go to the hospital; I know this is true because I work at one. Some get better, some don't. No one who is deathly ill goes to the herbalist down the street, expecting to be cured (at least I hope not). The fact that infant mortality is near 0% in the Western world, not to mention the population explosion over the past 100 years should be all you need to know to understand that Western science-based medicine works.

 

[James Madison]

Project Paperclip, Carnegie and Rockefeller. Learn about it and come back to the discussion.

http://hnn.us/articles/1796.html
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...years-later-the-flexner-report-still-relevant
http://www.theawl.com/2012/06/our-billionaire-philanthropists

Already know it.

Seriously? This was 70 years ago, and their plan was to what? Limit population growth? Considering the world population has nearly quadrupled since ww2 it would appear they aren't succeeding.

 

[donnay]

Already know it.

Seriously? This was 70 years ago, and their plan was to what? Limit population growth? Considering the world population has nearly quadrupled since ww2 it would appear they aren't succeeding.

It was 70 years ago? Is that how you dismiss it? It was 70 years ago... and what was done to those who have conspired to harm people? The medical schools are riddled with eugenicists. The Carnegies, Rockefellers and Gates are still around posing as philanthropists--wolves in sheep's clothing.

How about all the unethical experimentation that our own government did on unwitting people from 1845 - 2007? Was that done for the great good, you think?
http://www.naturalnews.com/022383_children_child.html
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199912163412519
http://naturalsociety.com/us-government-program-secretly-injected-plutonium-uranium/
http://www.usatoday.com/life/enter/books/book456.htm

You obviously need to learn and understand it better. Their plan is to make us sick and bankrupt us in the process. And you're worried about Homeopathic medicines? Seriously?

 

[tttppp]

You're begging the question. People who are already very, very sick go to the hospital; I know this is true because I work at one. Some get better, some don't. No one who is deathly ill goes to the herbalist down the street, expecting to be cured (at least I hope not). The fact that infant mortality is near 0% in the Western world, not to mention the population explosion over the past 100 years should be all you need to know to understand that Western science-based medicine works.

Actually you are wrong. Many people who are deathly ill do go to the acupuncturist. The main reason is they have spent their whole life looking for a cure and eventually realize western medicine doesn't have it. Some patients started acupuncture after doctors considered them a lost cause.

You are also wrong about western medicine working. It can help keep some people stay alive, but it almost never fixes the problem. In most cases, the medication causes more problems which requires more medication. This is a big reason our health care is bankrupting us.

 

[farreri]

You're begging the question.

You're ducking the question:

How many people die per year as a result of science-based medicine?

all you need to know to understand that Western science-based medicine works.

Never said it didn't.

 

[farreri]

The main reason is they have spent their whole life looking for a cure and eventually realize western medicine doesn't have it.

You're right, most who turned to alt med did so because "science-based" medicine failed them.

 

[James Madison]

You're ducking the question:

How many people die per year as a result of science-based medicine?

Never said it didn't.

I'm not ducking any questions. Some people get misdiagnosed, a byproduct of human error, the same reason driving a car is the most dangerous thing the average American will ever do. It doesn't change the facts. Western medicine revolutionized our culture and is a major contributor to the cushy lifestyle the people on this board enjoy. Don't have to worry about dying from a paper cut? Or maybe getting to live your life without the horrors of bubonic plague or smallpox? Keeping all of your children alive through infancy? Western medicine, bitches. You wanna see what life is like without it, go live in Zimbabwe or Bangladesh for a few days. Hell, take a trip to China, tttppp. See how CTM cures your tuberculosis or cholera infections. Maybe malaria or schistosomiosis. Put your money where your mouth is. My method works. Time for you to back your claims with real evidence. Oh, that's right! You already admitted you can't defend your position in light of scientific scrutiny.

 

[tttppp]

I'm not ducking any questions. Some people get misdiagnosed, a byproduct of human error, the same reason driving a car is the most dangerous thing the average American will ever do. It doesn't change the facts. Western medicine revolutionized our culture and is a major contributor to the cushy lifestyle the people on this board enjoy. Don't have to worry about dying from a paper cut? Or maybe getting to live your life without the horrors of bubonic plague or smallpox? Keeping all of your children alive through infancy? Western medicine, bitches. You wanna see what life is like without it, go live in Zimbabwe or Bangladesh for a few days. Hell, take a trip to China, tttppp. See how CTM cures your tuberculosis or cholera infections. Maybe malaria or schistosomiosis. Put your money where your mouth is. My method works. Time for you to back your claims with real evidence. Oh, that's right! You already admitted you can't defend your position in light of scientific scrutiny.

I said I didn't have the stats of deaths from alternative medicine. I never said I could not defend my position. Almost all western medicine has side effects, many of them are very harmful. That is a fact. In CTM, if you go to a qualified practitioner, you have a very low chance of side effects. That is also a fact. I don't need stats to show this difference because its not even close.

If all you want from your medicine is for it to simply keep you alive, by all means go see a doctor. But just recognize its not a cure and CTM can do a lot more for you.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

I'm not ducking any questions. Some people get misdiagnosed, a byproduct of human error, the same reason driving a car is the most dangerous thing the average American will ever do. It doesn't change the facts. Western medicine revolutionized our culture and is a major contributor to the cushy lifestyle the people on this board enjoy. Don't have to worry about dying from a paper cut? Or maybe getting to live your life without the horrors of bubonic plague or smallpox? Keeping all of your children alive through infancy? Western medicine, bitches. You wanna see what life is like without it, go live in Zimbabwe or Bangladesh for a few days. Hell, take a trip to China, tttppp. See how CTM cures your tuberculosis or cholera infections. Maybe malaria or schistosomiosis. Put your money where your mouth is. My method works. Time for you to back your claims with real evidence. Oh, that's right! You already admitted you can't defend your position in light of scientific scrutiny.

He says as he makes unsupported assumptions about China's backwardness.

 

[Zippyjuan]

So why didn't you answer question #2?

Here it is again:

2. How many people die per year as a result of science-based medicine?

And mine has gone unanswered- how many have died as a result of alternative medicines so that we may compare?

 

[Zippyjuan]

That's still not enough of a timeline to tell me what went wrong. When did he get alternative treatment and for how lonng? How often did he get treated? Who treated him? How did they diagnose him and what was his diagnosis? I can't explain what he did wrong until I know these things.

I find it laughable that doctors would claim they definetly would have saved him, when I have never gotten a definite answer from a doctor. They are always flat out guessing, or giving some percentage. Pancreatic cancer almost always kills patients, yet these doctors are confident they'd fix him. Jobs had severe liver problems, pancreatic cancer, kidney stones, and horrible blood flow. How many thousands of surgeries was Jobs expected to get?

By the way, when I said acupuncture can cure Jobs, I didn't mean managing his cancer the rest of his life. I meant the cancer would be gone, along with the rest of his imbalances.

Since you seem to be positive that accupuncture could have cured him while conventional medicine could only have killed him (or not saved him) you must know more about his diagnosis than his own doctors. Perhaps you can fill us in. Maybe you can provide us with some statistics on how many people have been cured of cancer with accupuncture.

I find references to it helping with the symptoms such as pain and nausea. http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/acupuncture/patient/Page2#Section_57

http://www.cancer.org/Treatment/Tre...ine/ManualHealingandPhysicalTouch/acupuncture

Available scientific evidence does not support claims that acupuncture is an effective treatment for cancer. Still, it appears it may be useful as a complementary method for relieving some symptoms related to cancer and other conditions.

Acupuncture has been the subject of many clinical studies and has been tested as treatment for a wide range of conditions. At this time, there is sound scientific support for acupuncture for 2 conditions: nausea/vomiting and headaches.

A 2006 analysis of 11 studies looked at the effect of acupuncture in reducing nausea and vomiting related to chemotherapy. The report suggested that acupuncture may reduce the vomiting that occurs shortly after chemotherapy is given, even though it had little effect on nausea. It also did not seem to help with delayed vomiting. There is also some evidence that acupuncture may lessen the need for pain medicine. A study of headache sufferers compared acupuncture with standard medical treatment. Those treated with acupuncture used less pain medicines and missed fewer work days.

Some studies suggest that acupuncture may help relieve mouth dryness (xerostomia) in patients whose salivary glands were damaged as a side effect of radiation therapy. It has also been used to relieve hot flashes, but most studies found that acupuncture using traditional acupuncture points is no more effective than sham (placebo) acupuncture. Still, some practitioners feel that it is worth trying when men or women getting hormone therapy for prostate or breast cancer have severe hot flashes that persist after trying other treatments.

Acupuncture remains a subject of research interest. But some recent studies of acupuncture have had mixed or uncertain results. Part of the problem is that it can be difficult to come up with good control procedures—one that convincingly mimics acupuncture—for scientific comparisons.

A number of studies have looked at the effectiveness of acupuncture in helping smokers quit. Experts reviewed studies in which acupuncture was used to help reduce withdrawal symptoms from quitting smoking. When the studies were analyzed as a group, the evidence suggested that sham acupuncture (placebo) worked as well as real acupuncture for smoking cessation. Similar results were found when studies of acupuncture for cocaine withdrawal were analyzed.

Although the scientific evidence is not strong, acupuncture may prove to be useful by itself or when combined with mainstream therapies to treat headache, menstrual cramps, tennis elbow, fibromyalgia, myofascial pain, osteoarthritis, lower back pain, carpal tunnel syndrome and asthma, and to help in the rehabilitation of stroke patients. Further research is needed in these areas.

Controlled clinical studies of electroacupuncture have suggested that it may help some people with pain after surgery, some of the nausea related to chemotherapy, and pain from kidney stones. However, it was found ineffective in a study that compared it to conventional anesthesia during in vitro fertilization.

 

[tttppp]

Since you seem to be positive that accupuncture could have cured him while conventional medicine could only have killed him (or not saved him) you must know more about his diagnosis than his own doctors. Perhaps you can fill us in. Maybe you can provide us with some statistics on how many people have been cured of cancer with accupuncture.

I don't have stats. My point was that it has never taken my acupuncturist seven years to cure someone. If Jobs had gone to my acupuncturist in 2003 it wouldn't have taken him more than a year or two to cure him. As I said before, most acupuncturists suck and I'm not aware of any studies being done on just the competent acupuncturists.

I can't identify where Jobs went wrong without more information.

 

[Working Poor]

Maybe you can provide us with some statistics on how many people have been cured of cancer with accupuncture.

I don't think most people who go for alternative treatment for cancer would use acupuncture as the primary treatment it would depend on the type of cancer I suppose. I would think that naturepathy would be the most likely choice of alternative treatment for cancer. I also hear that people are being cure with hydrogen peroxide.

 

[tttppp]

I don't think most people who go for alternative treatment for cancer would use acupuncture as the primary treatment it would depend on the type of cancer I suppose. I would think that naturepathy would be the most likely choice of alternative treatment for cancer. I also hear that people are being cure with hydrogen peroxide.

CTM is the best method for cancer if the cancer is not advanced. Sometimes you have to do both CTM and western medicine. This is assuming the CTM practitioner is competent. Your should not go to your average practitioner for cancer treatment.

 

[Zippyjuan]

I don't have stats. My point was that it has never taken my acupuncturist seven years to cure someone. If Jobs had gone to my acupuncturist in 2003 it wouldn't have taken him more than a year or two to cure him. As I said before, most acupuncturists suck and I'm not aware of any studies being done on just the competent acupuncturists.

I can't identify where Jobs went wrong without more information.

SO he has definately cured people with cancer?

As I said before, most acupuncturists suck

Seems to be a good reason not to go to see one?

Accupuncture does have recognized benefits- but as far as evidence available, curing cancer isn't one of them. Claiming yours could have definately cured Steve Jobs is a big statement.

 

[RonRules]

I also hear that people are being cure with hydrogen peroxide.

Have an extra shot for me. I'll pass.

 

[RonRules]

I also hear that people are being cure with hydrogen peroxide.

Reminds me of the joke: Two space aliens walk into a bar. One asks the bar tender: "I'll have an H2O". The other space alien says "I'll have an H2O too". He drinks and dies.

 

[tttppp]

SO he has definately cured people with cancer?



Seems to be a good reason not to go to see one?

Accupuncture does have recognized benefits- but as far as evidence available, curing cancer isn't one of them. Claiming yours could have definately cured Steve Jobs is a big statement.

The worst patients I know of that he has helped had cancer and some had bordline liver failure. The person with cancer I saw did acupuncture and western medicine.

 

[RonRules]

Swiss "healer" accused of intentionally infecting 16 people with HIV using acupuncture needles

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_...-16-people-with-hiv-with-acupuncture-needles/

(CBS/AP) GENEVA - An unlicensed acupuncturist in Switzerland has been accused of intentionally infecting 16 people with the HIV virus for over a decade, authorities announced Thursday.
FDA approves HIV treatment that combines four medications into one daily pill
CDC: Truvada may reduce HIV transmission risk in heterosexual men and women

The unidentified man was indicted by a five-judge panel in Bern-Mitelland regional court on charges of intentionally spreading human disease and causing serious bodily harm, offenses that carry maximum penalties of five to 10 years respectively, said the regional prosecutor's office in Bern, the Swiss capital.

The office said in a statement that most of the victims attended a music school that the man operated.

A spokesman for the prosecutor, Christof Scheurer, said the man also practiced as an unlicensed, self-styled acupuncturist -- a trade which he is believed to have used between 2001 and 2005 as a pretext to prick and infect some of his victims with blood that was infected with AIDS.

HIV is transmitted through bodily fluids such as blood, semen or breast milk. According to international AIDS and HIV organization Avert, about 34 million people worldwide were living with HIV or AIDS as of 2010, 2.7 million of which were newly infected that year. Deaths attributed to the AIDS virus in 2010 totaled 18 million.

The police investigation concluded that the man had used various pretexts to prick his victims, but it remained unclear exactly what objects he had used. In other cases, the investigation found, the self-described healer -- who is not HIV-positive -- had served his victims drinks that made them pass out so he could infect them.

"The defendant denies everything that is alleged," the prosecutor's statement added.

The cases apparently came to light when Bern hospital Inselspital began to investigate similar complaints of infections in connection with a so-called healer.

Prosecutors say the probe, which was launched after one alleged victim filed a criminal complaint in early 2005, has finally been completed, but that it took years because of a number of difficulties ranging from the use of genetic testing to identifying victims while adhering to protections for patient privacy.

Proceedings against a second suspect in the case have been permanently closed, the statement said, because his involvement could not be confirmed.

 

[RonRules]

Your Urine is Not a Window to Your Body: pH Balancing – A Failed Hypothesis

http://sciencebasedpharmacy.wordpre...o-your-body-ph-balancing-a-failed-hypothesis/
One of my first encounters with “alternative” health was the “pH balance” idea. A customer approached me at the pharmacy counter and asked for “pH test strips.” I asked him about kidney stones, diabetes – the usual reasons you test your urine. He told me he was healthy, and he was just monitoring his body’s “acid balance” and that he kept his body “alkali” to be healthy. “You can’t change your body’s pH, sir – if your pH changes, you’ll die,” I explained, in my most reassuring pharmacist voice. “You don’t know what you’re talking about,” he snapped at me, “I adjust my pH all the time.” I handed over the urine testing strips, rang it into the cash register, and wondered, what is this guy talking about? Where did he get the idea he could manipulate his body’s acidity?

...