Have you ever met someone who went from being a Libertarian to a Leftist?

[fisharmor]

Yes, I have a very good friend who was trying to get me involved in the Libertarian Party back in the 90's.
Probably because we smoked pot together a lot and she figured I was also the type of person who wanted to legalize it.
(I am now, but I wasn't then, because I didn't respond to the "I want to do this so it should be legal" argument.)
Then she had her first kid who ended up being autistic.
Now she can't wait to get medical handouts.

And the worst part is that she won't engage her brain on the matter at all. At one point I told her "So you never even thought to ask me for help with your problem, after all we've been through, yet you're willing to send armed goons for my money so you can have it?"
Answer: "Absolutely."
(Fucking atheists.....)

I assume there are lots of "libertarians" like this. "I want my free stuff and don't bother trying to figure out if there's a philosophically consistent ideology behind me asking for it."

 

[luctor-et-emergo]

It is only those Libertarians which do not subscribe to voluntarism that will switch between leftist and libertarians IMO.
I know a couple of leftists here that agree with me on most issues, but are not yet capable of understanding the principles voluntarism and why that would be better. They are issues based libertarians. They care about their own personal freedom but lack the knowledge and understanding - or common sense - to understand that freedom means something different to everyone else, and in order to protect their own freedom, they need to protect other peoples freedoms too...
In these specific cases (in my experience), there is some form of dependency on government. I can see this as being bought, however, sometimes it's a sort of personal protection racket.
People know that without the government they would not have these 'benefits' but instead they would have opportunities. Yet they fear change. Especially when they have kids. I can understand it can be hard for people, and I can't blame them, but I try to educate them on voluntarism.

 

[KingRobbStark]

I knew a guy who switched over. I believe his name was Bull Shit.

 

[RP Supporter]

Thanks for the replies. I just can't believe that people can see the excesses of the Bush and Obama administrations, with the patriot act, the endless wars, and then turn around and conclude "Yeah, what we need is even bigger government, but in the right hands. That will solve our problems."

Ah well. The good news is I think these sorts of people are a very small minority. Thankfully many people are starting to wake up to the dangers of that sort of thinking, that giving the government more authority will magically make the world a better place.

 

[VIDEODROME]

Maybe I'm on the fence and just willing to explore "Safety Nets". In my own experience I have collected State Unemployment Insurance, but for me the key part is it was a state level program. Same for other emergency services.

So I lean on the enumerated powers to the Federal Government and the 10th Amendment. Domestic initiatives belong to local government and my understanding is that even in Canada their health program is actually Provincial. At most maybe the Federal government is used to coordinate funding, but the real authority should belong to local government.


I also consider Taxation as a related side issue. I loath the IRS and income tax and would like to find a way to get away from that. For example event taxes or Excise tax like Gasoline makes more sense.

But in the end if I discuss this with Liberals I still say I want a more Libertarian Federal government. We don't need the Federal government to create safety nets though those should be organized and voted on locally.

 

[Brett85]

I can't think of anybody. I personally went from neo-conservative to libertarian-leaning paleo conservative.

 

[angelatc]

And the worst part is that she won't engage her brain on the matter at all. At one point I told her "So you never even thought to ask me for help with your problem, after all we've been through, yet you're willing to send armed goons for my money so you can have it?"
Answer: "Absolutely."
(Fucking atheists.....)

I assume there are lots of "libertarians" like this. "I want my free stuff and don't bother trying to figure out if there's a philosophically consistent ideology behind me asking for it."

Your mistake is in thinking that all people will believe in the non-aggression philosophy if it's only explained to them.

That sums up two of our biggest obstacles.

 

[torchbearer]

Your mistake is in thinking that all people will believe in the non-aggression philosophy if it's only explained to them.

That sums up two of our biggest obstacles.

right, because nap only appeals to people who believe in the golden rule.
treat others in the way i want to be treated.
i don't want someone killing me, so i won't kill others.
i don't want someone to steal from me, so i won't steal from others

you also have the anti-social part of our population who are so egocentric that the idea of other people being like themselves is foreign.
other people are objects to be used and abused by the anti-social.
those types of people will never agree with nap, even if they understood it.

 

[angelatc]

right, because nap only appeals to people who believe in the golden rule.
treat others in the way i want to be treated.
i don't want someone killing me, so i won't kill others.
i don't want someone to steal from me, so i won't steal from others

you also have the anti-social part of our population who are so egocentric that the idea of other people being like themselves is foreign.
other people are objects to be used and abused by the anti-social.
those types of people will never agree with nap, even if they understood it.

Yes, there's a huge divide between people who think that it's perfectly acceptable - desirable even - to drop a nuclear bomb on Iran even though they have never, ever been the aggressor in any of the skirmishes they've been involved in. Because, you see, they might someday be an aggressor.

Bullies gonna bully.

 

[Origanalist]

//

 

[LibForestPaul]

How to trap a wild pig.

The irony is that if a hunter actually baits an area (he usually will) face federal charges and six figure fines...

 

[TastyWheat]

I think your missing something. For most Americans it's not about freedom it's about creating a better life

Bingo. It usually isn't a question of morality it's a question of outcome (i.e. pragmatism over principles). You can always pull out some statistic that supports one side or the other, and you can usually flat out lie without someone confirming your facts. Pragmatic arguments are sometimes the only thing a person will listen to but it usually comes down to a question of whether or not the speaker is persuasive enough.