Guy gets paid 100k when he was supposed to get 1k, gets charged with theft.

[RickyJ]

Are you saying forklift operators are mildly retarded and can tell the difference between $1000 and $100,000? Wasn't sure it was mistake? Does he make 5 million dollars a year? He withdrew the money. Who withdraws $50,000.


Clearly it's stealing. He should, of course, be fired. I don't know if he should get 10 years in jail, but he should certainly get prison time. It sounds like it the company a few months to catch the accounting error. The guy is a thief.

We will see what the court says about that. I doubt he will be found guilty.

 

[The Free Hornet]

STOP READING THIS THREAD UNTIL YOU HAVE READ THE POST BY NEWBITECH! CLICK TO READ AND DON'T FORGET TO REP HIS ASS UP!



Questions *I* would ask...

1) What are the tax implications of the income anamoly as this has already been reported to the IRS as income?

2) How does this get squared away without me being bumped into another bracket or witholding?

3) Is this correction/anamoly an IRS audit red flag? Will the company offer me audit protection for a number of years?

4) Do I need a lawyer? Who will pay? Now that I've been arrested and definitely need a lawyer, what are my options for redress? A false arrest would have me seeking six figures in compensation.

5) Workplace scuttlebutt says Payroll Betty blames me and the boss won't look me in the eye and wants to dump me. Texas is an at-will employer, do I need or want a formal employment contract? The police and employer are calling me a thief and its not like I had a lot going. And if I have no employment contract, how can I owe them anything? [Edit, I have no idea if the guy is still working.]

6) How do I return the money since it is not like I took it? If I write a check, what are my obligations? Ought there be a formal arrangement and who pays for that? How is this reflected on my tax return?

7) What about the other people I owe money? Like the mafia or worse, child support? Why is the company first in line?


Some more details from another source:

"(The employee) reportedly talked to Saldivar for over 15 minutes and attempted to convince him to return the money," according to the probable cause statement. "He explained to Saldivar that if he returned the money he could avoid any legal action."

According to the document, "Saldivar stated he felt like he did not do anything wrong, he did not have all of the money and needed some time to figure it out."

Bryan police were willing to help.

http://www.beaumontenterprise.com/news/article/Police-Bryan-worker-gets-accidental-huge-4755680.php

So the company addressed zero of my would-be concerns, spent 15 minutes trying to get the money back, and they let the police "help". Fuck them.

 

[krugminator]

We will see what the court says about that. I doubt he will found guilty.

I doubt he will get convicted of a felony. Although hopefully he does.

He clearly did wrong and knew he did wrong. My guess is that he will get some sort of punishment.

 

[The Free Hornet]

I doubt he will get convicted of a felony. Although hopefully he does.

He clearly did wrong and knew he did wrong. My guess is that he will get some sort of punishment.

10 years in jail will cost Texas about a quarter million dollars. Texas Steel Conversion fucked up not going after this in civil court first. I sure as hell wouldn't trust them to convert my steel!

Ooops! This is Texas always whisper when bad mouthing their precious corporations!

 

[RonPaulFanInGA]

Yes it is in dispute. Sure he should know, but that doesn't mean that he does know. He might have thought this was a bonus for a job well done.

A bonus around $98,000? Are you kidding me? What bonus is nearly 100 times the pay? Playing that dumb won't fly in court.

Plus it doesn't matter what he "thought." He knows now it is simply not his money.

 

[RickyJ]

A bonus around $98,000? Are you kidding me? What bonus is nearly 100 times the pay? Playing that dumb won't fly in court.

Plus it doesn't matter what he "thought." He knows now it is simply not his money.

Because the company says so a month later? The point is he didn't steal anything.

 

[The Free Hornet]

A bonus around $98,000? Are you kidding me? What bonus is nearly 100 times the pay? Playing that dumb won't fly in court.

Plus it doesn't matter what he "thought." He knows now it is simply not his money.

But who will need to play dumb in court now that he has been charged with a crime and there could be slamdunk civil suit for false arrest?

Googling around suggests that in most if not all states, the employee is going to be obligated to repay... but:

Under Texas Law, the employer has at least three years to discover an
overpayment and then sue. Once a judgment has been entered by the
court for the amount of the overpayment the employer can execute it.

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/709876.html

Did they get a judgement?

Another Texas case:

Employees will be given three repayment options: They may give back earned time off; have regular paycheck deductions for up to two years; or make a one-time payment back to the district.

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=8797991

It doesn't sound like, 'give us the money or go to jail, thief!'. Again, lots of evidence that Cesar may have to repay. I have seen nothing to suggest he gets 10 years in jail or that the process starts with criminal - not civil - court.

If he still needs a job, he should offer to pay back with a portion of his wage at zero interest.

 

[newbitech]

why didn't he just tell them that he would work it off? Job security. Bargain with them. I am in the camp that if the money was in his account, it was his. No one put a gun to the companies head and forced them to give him that money.

So they made a mistake, happens all the time. You don't get to prosecute someone as a criminal because of YOUR fuckup. That being said, the guy should return the money if he cared about his relationship with his company.

But, he didn't steal the money. He was given the money. How about holding the company accountable for their mistake? And how about the company not calling the cops on an employee? Anyone investigating the person that made the mistake? Make sure this isn't some embezzlement ruse?

 

[krugminator]

why didn't he just tell them that he would work it off? Job security. Bargain with them. I am in the camp that if the money was in his account, it was his. No one put a gun to the companies head and forced them to give him that money.

So they made a mistake, happens all the time. You don't get to prosecute someone as a criminal because of YOUR fuckup. That being said, the guy should return the money if he cared about his relationship with his company.

But, he didn't steal the money. He was given the money. How about holding the company accountable for their mistake? And how about the company not calling the cops on an employee? Anyone investigating the person that made the mistake? Make sure this isn't some embezzlement ruse?

Keeping someone like that employed would be like leaving kids to be babysat with a child molester. Keeping that money isn't optional. He wouldn't haven't been a good samaritan. He would have been the equivalent to someone who doesn't rob a bank. This guy was lucky he got any negotiation. The only reason for the business to be nice at all would be if they are worried about not getting paid because a criminal case would bankrupt him in legal fees.

Otherwise, I would call the police immediately and have him arrested and have his accounts frozen.

 

[newbitech]

Keeping someone like that employed would be like leaving kids to be babysat with a child molester. Keeping that money isn't optional. He wouldn't haven't been a good samaritan. He would have been the equivalent to someone who doesn't rob a bank. This guy was lucky he got any negotiation. The only reason for the business to be nice at all would be if they are worried about not getting paid because a criminal case would bankrupt him in legal fees.

Otherwise, I would call the police immediately and have him arrested and have his accounts frozen.

poor analogy, unless you are prone to giving your kids away by mistake. I can see where you are just a bit on the hostile side, so I will not elaborate my position. Suffice to say, you would not call the police and have him arrested immediately because the jackass that gave away your money took a couple of months to figure out there was a problem.

 

[BolDiya]

The employer must pay him 20% as reward, if he returns the money.

 

[presence]

So they made a mistake, happens all the time. You don't get to prosecute someone as a criminal because of YOUR fuckup.

file under:

"Lack of planning on your behalf does not create an emergency on mine."

 

[helmuth_hubener]

When the grocery store over charges you is that theft? It happens all the time. They scan an item more than once or charge you the wrong price. Who notices those things? If you pay with plastic like most people do today they could have over or under charged and no one even noticed it.

It is if I go up to the service counter and they refuse to reimburse me.

Exactly. This is why when I buy lots of groceries I always stand there (out of the way, but still in the store) and read through my receipt right after I go through the line. Every once in a while, they have not given the sale price for a certain item. Of course, for this to be effective, you have to have been paying attention to the prices of the items as marked on the shelves as you buy them.

"These avacados said they were 50 cents each."

"Really? The computer says a dollar. Let's go over and look. Oh yeah, sure enough."

Anyway, to answer Schifference's question: no, this overcharge is not theft. It is unintentional. Unintentional things happen. Killing someone in a car crash is different than murder (unless the car crash was intentional on your part). And yes, getting too much pay from your employer is different from stealing from him -- unless your getting too much pay was intentional on your part!

 

[helmuth_hubener]

I am in the camp that if the money was in his account, it was his.

So, possession is 100% of the law in your book?

So if your neighbor gets drunk one night and accidentally parks his Ferrari in your driveway, when you wake up the next morning and see it, you can please feel free to very quickly sell it for $10,000 before he notices. Then at noon when he wakes up, well, tough luck, buddy! Ha, ha! "Lack of planning on your behalf does not create an emergency on mine."

Right guys?

 

[helmuth_hubener]

Because the company says so a month later? The point is he didn't steal anything.

He actually did steal something. He stole a lot of money. He knew this payment was a mistake. He opened up a brand new bank account to process this paycheck. He as quickly as possible spent the money / hid the money / sent it to Mexico. He then refused to give the money back when the company let him know they'd made a mistake and asked for it back.

This man is a criminal. If criminals can't get charged as criminals, then who, pray tell, can?

 

[Schifference]

If criminals can't get charged as criminals, then who, pray tell, can?

Each and every citizen of the United States!

 

[helmuth_hubener]

Honor?

Yes, honor. That is the key value missing from a lot of the posters here. Honor.

 

[newbitech]

So, possession is 100% of the law in your book?

So if your neighbor gets drunk one night and accidentally parks his Ferrari in your driveway, when you wake up the next morning and see it, you can please feel free to very quickly sell it for $10,000 before he notices. Then at noon when he wakes up, well, tough luck, buddy! Ha, ha! "Lack of planning on your behalf does not create an emergency on mine."

Right guys?

It's circumstantial but generally yeah, if someone gives you something it's yours. I just went thru this with someone albeit not as much money involved, but a very significant item with irreplaceable sentiment attached. There was no written contract, or path forward. My circumstances depended on both parties being honest. We disagreed on the valuation, so there was an impasse. Never once was it considered that someone was a thief. It was completely a civil matter that needed to be worked out. It took some time, but it got worked out.

I believe this case should have been handled the same way. There was no criminal mischief here, the companies feelings were obviously hurt cause they screwed up big time. Doesn't make the benefactor of their mistake a criminal!

but,

another poor analogy, tbh. Yeah, if neighbor leaves his Ferrari up in my property with the keys in it and unlocked, I'm gonna take it for a spin. And yeah, if he left the thing unlocked with the keys in it and an OPEN TITLE, you bet your ass I am claiming the ABANDONED PROPERTY that was ABANDONED on my property.

Facts are facts. The company for whatever reason gave the guy 100,000. Should the guy recognize the mistake and not take advantage of it? That to me is subjective. I say yes, he should recognize the mistake and try to help correct it. But again, fact is, he didn't make a mistake. I am not sure if he was written a check or if he had some kind of direct deposit agreement. Doesn't matter to me in regards to charging him with the crime of theft, since regardless if he was given a check or had some kind of direct deposit agreement, none of his ACTIONS involved him TAKING the money. He RECEIVED the money.

Better analogy, I had you the keys and title to my house and say here take it, it's yours. You move all your stuff in and then several months later I knock on the door with cops accusing you of stealing my keys and title and kicking me out. The cops arrest you and you go to jail and I proceed to toss all your crap to the curb. You thief!

Just cause this guy is/was an employee of the company AND benefited from their mistake, doesn't make him a criminal. Even after the fact, when everyone seemed to agree about the mistake, doesn't mean that he's a criminal because he immediately refused to remedy their mistake, especially when there was no compensation.

Civil, perhaps. Criminal, kind of an insult to the real victims of theft if you ask me.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

another poor analogy, tbh. Yeah, if neighbor leaves his Ferrari up in my property with the keys in it and unlocked, I'm gonna take it for a spin. And yeah, if he left the thing unlocked with the keys in it and an OPEN TITLE, you bet your ass I am claiming the ABANDONED PROPERTY that was ABANDONED on my property.

Then you have no honor, sir. You simply have no honor.

If you are making decisions like this all the time, you need to take some time for introspection to think about your moral code. Anyway, you won't care about what I say. But your approach to life disgusts me. If everyone around you seems to be untrustworthy (e.g. the problem with the sentimental item you discussed above) just look in the mirror and there is why. Trustworthy people do not like associating with malignantly untrustworthy and mercenary people.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

And all you people are so wrapped up in "civil" vs. "criminal". What does that even mean? In my preferred society, a free society, all justice will be restitution-based, so essentially everything is a "civil" matter. Or maybe nothing is. In any case, it's a system where virtually no one is going to prison; instead everyone is working to pay back damages to their victims.

I do not think that Cesar should go to prison. Him being locked up helps no one. But then I do not think any thief should go to prison, in general (as long as they are not an uncoverable insurance risk if left at large). So if people's concern in saying "this should be civil, not criminal" is that they don't think he should be put in prison for years on end, then I can understand your sentiment and I agree. Otherwise, I do not agree. Theft by keeping and theft by taking are the same thing. Either one could be accidental. And either one could be intentional. This one, Cesar has clearly demonstrated by his actions, was intentional. There is no question about that. He can say "Oh, I don't think I did wrong" all day. But that's just due to his twisted moral code, not a lack of malicious intent. Our own newbitech would say "Oh, I don't think I did wrong" after he steals my misplaced Ferrari, but again, that's just due to his twisted moral code.