Group Project: Let's Rank The Presidents and Summarize Their Presidencies

[enoch150]

I thought he was against it generally, in contrast with the war hawk Johnson?

If I remember right, JFK had about 2,000 troops there and started the bombing. Johnson started the ground campaign.

 

[GeorgiaAvenger]

If I remember right, JFK had about 2,000 troops there and started the bombing. Johnson started the ground campaign.

I was thinking JFK had military advisers and wanted to help shape the outcome, but thought the war would be a hell hole(as it was). But I am not too familiar with the situation.

 

[enoch150]

To be fair to Washington, they did more than refused to pay their taxes. They were in armed revolt before Washington ever took the field. Also he didn't invade Pennsylvania, he was asked to intercede by the state government.

Why were they considered in armed revolt, if not for Washington's tax? Washington invaded. The fact that the government of Pennsylvania went along with this does not change the matter.

 

[enoch150]

I was thinking JFK had military advisers and wanted to help shape the outcome, but thought the war would be a hell hole(as it was). But I am not too familiar with the situation.

In 1962, the United States attacked South Vietnam. In that year, President John F. Kennedy sent the U.S. Air Force to attack rural South Vietnam, where more than 80 percent of the population lived. This was part of a program intended to drive several million people into concentration camps (called "strategic hamlets") where they would be surrounded by barbed wire and armed guards. This would "protect" these people from the guerrillas whom, we conceded, they were largely supporting.

The direct U.S. attack against South Vietnam followed our support for the French attempt to reconquer their former colony, our disruption of the 1954 "peace process," and a terrorist war against the South Vietnamese population. This terror had already left some 75,000 dead while evoking domestic resistance, supported from the northern half of the country after 1959, that threatened to bring down the regime that the U.S. had established. In the following years, the U.S. continued to resist every attempt at peaceful settlement, and in 1964 began to plan the ground invasion of South Vietnam. The land assault took place in early 1965, accompanied by the bombing of North Vietnam and an intensification of the bombing of the south, at triple the level of the more publicized bombing of the north.

http://www.chomsky.info/articles/198912--.htm

November 1963 — By this time, Kennedy had increased the number of military personnel from the 900 that were there when he became President to 16,000 just before his death.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role_o...m_War#John_F._Kennedy_.281961.E2.80.931963.29

 

[GeorgiaAvenger]

enoch, good info

As for the worst Presidents, I have Woodrow Wilson last.....the Federal Reserve, income tax, league of nations, and WW1 being just the main reasons why....there are certainly more

FDR, Lyndon Johnson, Lincoln, Obama....all are near my bottom as well.

 

[WilliamShrugged]

I'll go with worst to best

1) FDR - For his economic policies, getting the USA involved in war, and lack of care to civil liberties.
The Details.
http://mises.org/daily/5517/Out-Out-Damn-Depression-FDR-in-1938
http://newdeal.feri.org/court/fdr5_31_35.htm
http://mises.org/daily/4388
http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=258
http://www.lewrockwell.com/raico/fdr-1.html

2) Lincoln- Main reason executive powers have grown little no care of the constitution. Cared more for keeping the Country as 1 than the lives of thousands.

Details
This should provide everything
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig2/lincoln-arch.html

3)Wilson- Introduced the FED, Income tax (75%), Prohibition. Used the IRS and FBI to crush who disagreed with him. Followed up on Teddy and Lincolns growth of executive power.

Details
http://www.lewrockwell.com/stromberg/stromberg18.html
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig4/powell-jim5.html
http://mises.org/media/1090/Woodrow-Wilsons-Revolution-Within-the-Form
http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard100.html
http://www.lewrockwell.com/denson/denson9.html

4 Bush jr - I think most understand why...

5 LBJ- Terrible economic policies (lead to the inflation of the 60's and 70's), Vietnam, and Corrupt as &%$!
details
http://www.lewrockwell.com/dieteman/dieteman24.html
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig11/morrow-r1.1.1.html
http://mises.org/daily/3232/
http://mises.org/daily/5208

 

[John F Kennedy III]

Thanks for the posts so far guys. I'm eager to see more. Tomorrow I will update the OP with a preliminary ranking. I'm looking to include a pretty detailed summary under each president's name.

 

[keh10]

You might want to check out Recarving Rushmore by Ivan Eland. He ranks the presidents based on their ability to maintain peace, prosperity, and liberty. I read it several years ago when I was first discovering Ron Paul and it's a good way to get some real information on the unsung hero presidents.



Edit - I found a video of the Author talking about his book and historical bias at the Independent Institute if you're interested.

 

[WilliamShrugged]

Anyone that want to hear a great book look into this... here is its audio http://mises.org/media/categories/26/Reassessing-the-Presidency

Best

1 Martin Van Buren- I'll let Murray explain it best. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9uW0hepYV1M

details
http://mises.org/media/1094/Martin-van-Buren-What-Greatness-Really-Means
http://mises.org/daily/2201

2 Grover Cleveland- I think many here have pointed this out. but i'll provide sources.

details
http://mises.org/daily/1129
http://mises.org/daily/3627
http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo73.html

3 Harding/Coolidge- cut taxes and spending during the 1920 depression. That's about it...

details
http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/missing-harding.html
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig4/powell-jim4.html
http://www.lewrockwell.com/woods/woods125.html
http://www.lewrockwell.com/murphy/murphy155.html
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig5/galles1.html

 

[kill the banks]

Yes. But he still maintained them.

Also, JFK was a president during the 60's. This means her PERMITTED MKUltra and MKArtichoke to continue?

Notably, Eisenhower also permitted MKUltra Subproject 68 in which the CIA kidnapped innocent Canadians and performed inhuman torture and mind control experiments on Canadian citizens in Quebec at the Allen Memorial Institute.

If he could permit that, ain't all his praise bullshit? Eisenhower must have been an UN-sympathetic bastard...

Kennedy wanted to split the CIA into a 1000 pieces ... he inherited the Cuba problem ... he talked to khrushchev secretly to resolve crisis ... he was going to direct military out of Vietnam until Johnson gave the criminals their war back ... he was young and a creature of history and found himself surrounded by the MIC which was warned by Ike and probably would have discovered the secret agenda of the banksters in more detail which would have probably changed his ideas on the united nations which was pushed by them ... in those days one must remember we were v naive and quite stupid during the 50's IMO ... he wanted to contain nukes from israel as well ... he came to hate the CIA and most chicken hawks that ran the military that guided him ... I believe he ordered them to takeover the CIA butL likely that was reason they killed him ( perhaps " the big event " which was later revealed by death bed confession) ... he wanted to do good for us I'm quite sure but no one is ever perfect

 

[ronpaulfollower999]

I had to do this back in high school. I'm too embarrassed to tell you who was #1. :o

 

[cityoflight]

One of my all-time favorite topics!!

BEST
-George Washington (precedent setter; not perfect but could easily have become elected king, governed with restraint instead)
-Martin Van Buren (gold and silver advocate; deregulation; non-interventionist; refused to intervene in/exacerbate Panic of 1837)
-John Tyler (antiwar; refused to support huge public works spending and a new national bank and got basically kicked out of Whig Party as a result)
-Rutherford Hayes (noninterventionist; insisted on keeping gold standard; paid down debt; kept federal govt out of labor issues; pro-voting rights for blacks)
-Grover Cleveland (big believer in separation of powers; tried to discourage early American imperialism; tight monetary policy; cut spending)

WORST
-James Polk (picked a fight with Mexico for land; almost started simultaneous war with British for land in northwest U.S.; expanded executive power)
-William McKinley (big-time imperialist; aggressive foreign policy that set the tone for 20th century; Spanish-American War)
-Woodrow Wilson (probably the worst; foreign intervention; supported income tax; tried for League of Nations; cracked down on civil liberties; the Fed; racist)
-Harry Truman ("containment" was wasteful and belligerent; federal govt involved in labor disputes; supported compulsory health insurance, mandatory military service, and federal housing)
-George W. Bush (Iraq; other foreign intervention; PATRIOT Act and widespread civil liberties violations; torture; bailouts; unfunded Medicare expansion; general incompetence)
-Guess we can officially put Obama in here too.

UNDERRATED
-Warren Harding (scandal and corruption didn't really affect his policies)
-Jimmy Carter (gets a bad rap from conservatives; deregulated more than Reagan; appointed Volcker as Fed chairman; tried to be anti-war)

OVERRATED (pretty much all the "greats" are grossly overrated but these two really rely on charisma and perception rather than accomplishments)
-Ronald Reagan (talked the talk, didn't walk the walk; Iran-Contra was among worst constitutional violations ever; big spender; gets too much credit for winning Cold War)
-John F. Kennedy (Bay of Pigs; escalated Vietnam; missile crisis)

I love talking about this. A really good book on the topic is "Recarving Rushmore" by Ivan Eland. It's recommended by Ron Paul, Tom Woods, and others, and profiles each president from a constitutional standpoint.

 

[cityoflight]

3 Harding/Coolidge- cut taxes and spending during the 1920 depression. That's about it...

True but Coolidge and Harding both also expanded the money supply excessively which led to the Great Depression. They have to lose a few points for that. Coolidge in particular can't be blamed for the length and severity of the Depression but he can be partially faulted for creating the conditions that allowed it to begin.

 

[John F Kennedy III]

Kennedy wanted to split the CIA into a 1000 pieces ... he inherited the Cuba problem ... he talked to khrushchev secretly to resolve crisis ... he was going to direct military out of Vietnam until Johnson gave the criminals their war back ... he was young and a creature of history and found himself surrounded by the MIC which was warned by Ike and probably would have discovered the secret agenda of the banksters in more detail which would have probably changed his ideas on the united nations which was pushed by them ... in those days one must remember we were v naive and quite stupid during the 50's IMO ... he wanted to contain nukes from israel as well ... he came to hate the CIA and most chicken hawks that ran the military that guided him ... I believe he ordered them to takeover the CIA butL likely that was reason they killed him ( perhaps " the big event " which was later revealed by death bed confession) ... he wanted to do good for us I'm quite sure but no one is ever perfect

I am fully convinced JFK always wanted to do good for us and did what he thought at the time was best. He is the only president in probably the last 80 years that wasn't a puppet.

 

[enoch150]

Bush 2 and Obama are bad, but I can't see putting them among the five worst, if only because the scale of their wars is so much smaller.

I would rank the five worst like this:

1. FDR
2. Lincoln
3. Wilson
4. Nixon
5. LBJ

 

[John F Kennedy III]

I had to do this back in high school. I'm too embarrassed to tell you who was #1. :o

My #2 and #3 used to be Bill Clinton and FDR. Now you can share your shame

 

[John F Kennedy III]

Ok someone needs to buy me a copy of Recarving Rushmore. I'll settle for a used copy

http://www.amazon.com/Recarving-Rus...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1337651061&sr=1-1

Definitely on my list the next time I buy some books.

 

[John F Kennedy III]

True but Coolidge and Harding both also expanded the money supply excessively which led to the Great Depression. They have to lose a few points for that. Coolidge in particular can't be blamed for the length and severity of the Depression but he can be partially faulted for creating the conditions that allowed it to begin.

So what they teach us in public school about Harding and Coolidge is actually correct?

 

[cityoflight]

So what they teach us in public school about Harding and Coolidge is actually correct?

Well, not really still. As I remember the textbook version of the 20s is that businesses were allowed to get out of control and that speculation and lack of regulation caused the Depression. The underlying issues with the monetary supply are rarely mentioned; it's the usual narrative of business bad, government coming in to save the day. Without access to all the easy credit though, a lot of the other problems would have been avoided.

 

[flynn]

Austrian school economists LOVE Hardings.