GMO labeling on the Ballot in Oregon

I think it's going to pass, Donnay. Will see. Of course, if it doesn't then it doesn't. But we don't cry loss when others are so naive to cry victory. Heh. As if we've finished and the issue just up and poofed itself away. It is a hoot, though, what you share here. You know, I've said before, and it's often toward young folks, that we need to stop with this meme of seeing just what is in front of us. We have to see beyond. They don't do that. Well...you have to actually look to see.Right? The fly by political so called "activists, I'm talking about here. And so, of course, the legacy/corporate media folks are going to pick up on these shortcomings and tell them, "Okay...it's over...you can go home now". I mean, if you look through this thread alone with all of the "huzzahs" and the "Oh...mkay...it's over...we're done now" that we see elsewhere. That kind of thing. I do often wonder if the next generation has the drive or focus that is required to not only finish the game but to actually view it. To see it or understand the depth of the issues in scope and to maintain a vision of what it takes to not just say victory but to actually achieve it. It's the only way you play it right is if we play it completely. You know? It just is what it is, I suppose. I mean we just seem to like to scream victory and, well...you know...the game is a long one. Lifetimes even.

Hey, what did you think about the outright GMO ban in Maui. That's a big deal there. That's where these companies spending these millions to disrupt these citizens initiatives had set up experimental shop. Maui GMO ban passes after 3rd printout
 
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Any amount of regulation on businesses is bad regulation, for any reason, for any product, for any amount of time.

Does this apply to legalizing weed? Because you do know, that its legalization necessarily means regulation and taxation. There is a clear double standard with this argument.

The train has already left the station with regard to regulation of businesses. And multi-nats are in bed with the gov't making sure the laws favor them. When you have this kind of situation to deal with, it requires several approaches. Yes, one is for businesses who don't use GMO products to voluntarily list it on their products so that people do in fact, have the freedom to choose based on information. But another viable approach is to push for consistency in labeling, and expose the hypocrisy and the dirty dealings between multi-nats and gov't. I used the example earlier in the thread of a supplement I use that has been pulled because the gov't wants the supplement labeling changed. Well, what's good for the goose, is good for the gander. If they're going to insist on labeling for some, and not others, then it needs to be exposed and changed. I see nothing wrong with demanding consistency.

And I realize that sometimes you have to play by their rules in order to beat them at their own game.
 
I think it's going to pass, Donnay. Will see. Of course, if it doesn't then it doesn't. But we don't cry loss when others are so naive to cry victory. Heh. As if we've finished and the issue just up and poofed itself away. It is a hoot, though, what you share here. You know, I've said before, and it's often toward young folks, that we need to stop with this meme of seeing just what is in front of us. We have to see beyond. They don't do that. Well...you have to actually look to see.Right? The fly by political so called "activists, I'm talking about here. And so, of course, the legacy/corporate media folks are going to pick up on these shortcomings and tell them, "Okay...it's over...you can go home now". I mean, if you look through this thread alone with all of the "huzzahs" and the "Oh...mkay...it's over...we're done now" that we see elsewhere. That kind of thing. I do often wonder if the next generation has the drive or focus that is required to not only finish the game but to actually view it. To see it or understand the depth of the issues in scope and to maintain a vision of what it takes to not just say victory but to actually achieve it. It's the only way you play it right is if we play it completely. You know? It just is what it is, I suppose. I mean we just seem to like to scream victory and, well...you know...the game is a long one. Lifetimes even.

Hey, what did you think about the outright GMO ban in Maui. That's a big deal there. That's where these companies spending these millions to disrupt these citizens initiatives had set up experimental shop. Maui GMO ban passes after 3rd printout

I glad the people of Maui are standing their ground. God Bless them. It also shines a light on Monsanto. You know what happens when you shine lights on cockroaches, right?
 
Updated: 8:01 am, Nov 6

95% of est. votes counted

[TD="class: candname"]Yes
[/TD]
[TD="class: candbar"][/TD]
[TD="class: candvote"]712,508
[/TD]
[TD="class: candpct"]49.7%
[/TD]

[TD="class: candname win"]No
[/TD]
[TD="class: candbar"][/TD]
[TD="class: candvote"]722,278
[/TD]
[TD="class: candpct"]50.3%
[/TD]

Remaining counties left to be tallied at the moment...

Multnomah County
88.4% Reporting
Yes - 62.2% 169,665
No - 37.8% 103,277

Lane County
92.6% Reporting
Yes = 57.3% 78,073
No - 42.7% 58,146

Benton County
91.7% Reporting
Yes - 52.1% 19,431
No - 47.9% 17,862

Clackamas County
79.8% Reporting
No - 53.5% 69,717
Yes - 46.5% 60,525
 
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Pro-GMO Campaign Spends $37M, Defeats Labeling in Oregon, Colorado

Melissa Melton
Ready Nutrition

justfood.jpg


Much of what went down last night in the 2014 midterm elections was predictable. What wasn’t so predictable was the defeat of GMO labeling laws in Oregon and Colorado.

Combined, GMO labeling opposition groups (and the mega corporations behind them who stand to potentially lose revenue over labels) spent a whopping $37 million in propaganda campaigns to defeat the labeling initiatives — $17 million in Colorado and $20 million in Oregon.

While $37 million seems like a lot of money, for the Big Ag companies involved here, it’s a pittance.

By glaring contrast, pro-labeling campaigns in both states raised a combined total of just $7.9 million ($7 million of that in Oregon alone).

Still, the vote in Oregon came close. Awfully close. It was super slim margin of 49.53% yes to 50.47% no, with less than 13,000 votes statewide between the two. If I lived in Oregon, realizing what a vested interest these companies had in defeating the measure and how many millions they spend in propaganda to do so, I would be screaming for a recount today.

Genetically modified foods (aka genetically modified organisms or GMOs) continue to be a source of controversy across America, as more and more people get informed on what GMOs are and exactly why they might not necessarily want to be consuming them. The majority of GMOs are scientifically engineered by biotech companies like Monsanto and Dow AgroSciences to produce their own pesticides.

When you eat it, you therefore eat a crop that produces its own pesticide.

The arguments over whether or not these foods are truly safe to consume long-term goes back and forth. When these foods were initially approved, zero long-term studies had been completed. You could say everyone consuming these foods right now is part of a long-term study, the only one that has ever been done and it’s still ongoing. Some science — bought-and-paid for by the very biotech corporations the science would serve — says eating these genetically engineered foods is fine. Since our government essentially allows these corporations to regulate themselves, many people have turned to independent studies for answers, and those answers don’t look so good health-wise.

According to the Institute for Responsible Technology, “GM foods can create unpredictable, hard-to-detect side effects, including allergies, toxins, new diseases, and nutritional problems. They urged long-term safety studies, but were ignored.” GM food’s potential ties to serious health risks, including a rise in infertility, auto-immune disorders, diseases, allergies, cancer and major gastrointestinal issues have also been ignored.

Truly though, it shouldn’t even be a question of getting to this level of the debate because ultimately, people should be allowed to know what they are eating when they buy something. Period.

It doesn’t matter if the ingredient is a magical vitamin that cures every disease known to man and is so good for everyone that everyone should be eating it every chance they get.

If it’s in the food, the people consuming said food have a right to know it’s in there and a right to decide — with full disclosure at their fingertips — whether or not they want to put it in their mouths.

The problem is, unlike 64 other countries around the world, as Americans we don’t really have any basic labeling protections in this country. Food manufacturers are not federally mandated to label a food package telling people what’s inside contains genetically modified organisms.

At this point, the USDA estimates at least 70% of the food sold in U.S. grocery stores contains genetically modified ingredients and because there are no labels, the majority of people who haven’t done their homework likely have no idea they are eating this stuff.

Polls show that a whopping 92% of Americans who are informed actually do want to know if GMOs are in their food. Over 1.3 million people in this country have contacted the U.S. Food and Drug Administration about it, but considering the FDA’s Deputy Commissioner for Foods is Michael Taylor — a former lobbyist, lawyer and Vice President for Public Policy for biotech giant Monsanto — those voices are falling on (bought off) deaf ears.

So, if we live in a democratic republic and GMO labeling has such a high level of support nationwide, why exactly do all these GMO labeling initiatives continue to get defeated at the polls?

Look no further than crony capitalism and the mega corporate money.

Continued...
 
I plugged the numbers given in post #84 into a spreadsheet to project the final results. For each remaining county, I divided the number of yes and no votes by % reporting, to come up with projected yes and no votes. Then I totaled the projection for each county, and added those to the votes counted so far. Here's what I come up with:

additional projected votes in each county:

Multnomah
yes - 22264
no- 13552

Lane
yes - 6239
no- 4647

Benton
yes - 1759
no - 1617

Clackamas
yes - 15321
no - 17648

total projected totals of already counted votes plus new votes:
yes - 759090 = 49.95%
no - 759741 = 50.05%

The each of the above numbers were all rounded here (.74 of a vote became 1 vote), but I did not round them in the spreadsheet. So if any of you check my math, and something is off by a vote here and there, it's a rounding error. This is going to be EXTREMELY close, so close that even if the results are projected from the percentages holding in each county, it's too close to call. Notice that my projections only differ by 51 votes! I predict that this will go to a recount, lawsuits, etc and will not actually be settled one way or the other for some time to come.
 
You know, I'm just really glad to see that these out of state companies are beginning to realize that throwing $25 million into a campaign against a citizen initiative isn't always going to work.
 
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Taleb is optimistic.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10152585947568375&id=13012333374

SOCIAL NETWORKS AS DISINFECTANT: THE FRAGILITY OF FRAUDULENT SCHEMES

A Ponzi scheme increases in fragility over time; it requires more and more new funds to keep it going, so it collapses when one eventually runs out of suckers.*

Now it looks like it is a universal property of fraudulent schemes: you need more and more PR, lobbyists, shills, and repetitions of the narratives to keep the story going, particularly in the age of the internet. This is what I am observing with my current fraud-busting projects, with the Saudi-Wahabi government (funded intolerant version of the religion), GMOs (maquerade of "science" and "evidence"), the economics/macrobullshit establishment, the "education" bubble (student loans helping real-estate developers), etc. You can see it particularly with GMOs as all the lobbying efforts can evaporate in the face of a single probabilistic argument; tens of thousands of comments do not measure up to a single derivation.
---
*A Ponzi scheme is one by which one finds new investors to pay off old investors: think Madoff or many heavily endebted governments.
 
Do you understand the concept of a citizen initiative? What about government? What does that mean to you? Can you define it, please? If you don't mind. Just so that we better understand each other. If you're looking to debate this ballot initiative, that is.

Government is force. I prefer never to use force unless necessary. This is a perfect example of people free to not buy any products, only buy from people they trust and nobody needs to be forced to label anything.
 
Pro-GMO Campaign Spends $37M, Defeats Labeling in Oregon, Colorado

How rich do I have to be to be wrong? How much money does Ron & Rand have to spend for them to be demonized like you're doing now?

Oh, you mean to tell me whether they are evil an wrong has nothing to do with what they spend?
 
GMO-labeling announced as defeated despite uncounted votes in counties favoring the measure

Losers always cry conspiracy.

When Republicans win, it's because somebody rigged machines and lied to minorities about voting dates, and forced people to show ID.
When Democrats win, somebody wasn't born in the country or stolen a nomination or communists paid off a Super PAC.
 
Government is force. I prefer never to use force unless necessary. This is a perfect example of people free to not buy any products, only buy from people they trust and nobody needs to be forced to label anything.

Ha! Ha! That is admirable of you--so I guess you never go grocery store shopping? The problem is you have NO IDEA if the food you are eating is GMO or not. If you want to sell food, you need to let the people, you want to buy it, to be informed.
 
Losers always cry conspiracy.

When Republicans win, it's because somebody rigged machines and lied to minorities about voting dates, and forced people to show ID.
When Democrats win, somebody wasn't born in the country or stolen a nomination or communists paid off a Super PAC.

What do you make of food companies that have no problem putting labels on their food packages with regards to sporting events (i.e.; Super Bowl) but cannot put on that very same package whether or not the corn chips contain GM corn?

Conspiracy? Yeah, I think so, but I am not crying by any stretch of the imagination.
 
I plugged the numbers given in post #84 into a spreadsheet to project the final results. For each remaining county, I divided the number of yes and no votes by % reporting, to come up with projected yes and no votes. Then I totaled the projection for each county, and added those to the votes counted so far. Here's what I come up with:

additional projected votes in each county:

Multnomah
yes - 22264
no- 13552

Lane
yes - 6239
no- 4647

Benton
yes - 1759
no - 1617

Clackamas
yes - 15321
no - 17648

total projected totals of already counted votes plus new votes:
yes - 759090 = 49.95%
no - 759741 = 50.05%

The each of the above numbers were all rounded here (.74 of a vote became 1 vote), but I did not round them in the spreadsheet. So if any of you check my math, and something is off by a vote here and there, it's a rounding error. This is going to be EXTREMELY close, so close that even if the results are projected from the percentages holding in each county, it's too close to call. Notice that my projections only differ by 51 votes! I predict that this will go to a recount, lawsuits, etc and will not actually be settled one way or the other for some time to come.

I'm thinking it passes by a little over a thousand votes. Doesn't mean I'm correct. Is just what I'm thinking. Multnomah county, I think, will do it.

But, you know, tomorrow is another day. And so we keep on keeping on. The results thus far here with regard to this citizens initiative while up against these out of state companies is a very good indicator of the model we're seeing nation-wide as people become active in the issues that they care about. Is, I think, refreshing when we see folks begin to count the issues as opposed to the number of status quo being elected to office during these mid-terms. Will need more of this going into 2016 because changing the course of history, I think, is far more practical than just trying to hurry up and get elected where, really, nothing will change save the transfer of political power.
 
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For those arguing against gov't forcing food retailers or producers to label their products accurately, what if I was to sell you a turd, nicely wrapped up and packaged and marked as "fudge"? When you found out what it really was, wouldn't you feel like I had defrauded you, or falsely advertised my product? A tomato does not contain frog genes. If you sell me a vegetable that has frog genes in it, and advertise and market it as anything but a vegetable that contains frog genes, you have falsely advertised your product, and defrauded me. Isn't preventing and prosecuting fraud a legitimate function of gov't? If none of you think so, I'd be more than glad to sell you some "fudge".
 
Ha! Ha! That is admirable of you--so I guess you never go grocery store shopping? The problem is you have NO IDEA if the food you are eating is GMO or not. If you want to sell food, you need to let the people, you want to buy it, to be informed.

I do go grocery shopping, but I am not forced to.

You seem to assume I care whether it's GMO.

So much for buyer beware or personal responsibility.
 
What do you make of food companies that have no problem putting labels on their food packages with regards to sporting events (i.e.; Super Bowl) but cannot put on that very same package whether or not the corn chips contain GM corn?

Conspiracy? Yeah, I think so, but I am not crying by any stretch of the imagination.

I am against food companies being forced to label anything at all. Get it?!
 
For those arguing against gov't forcing food retailers or producers to label their products accurately, what if I was to sell you a turd, nicely wrapped up and packaged and marked as "fudge"? When you found out what it really was, wouldn't you feel like I had defrauded you, or falsely advertised my product? A tomato does not contain frog genes. If you sell me a vegetable that has frog genes in it, and advertise and market it as anything but a vegetable that contains frog genes, you have falsely advertised your product, and defrauded me. Isn't preventing and prosecuting fraud a legitimate function of gov't? If none of you think so, I'd be more than glad to sell you some "fudge".

I disagree with you about the definition of a tomato. To me a tomato food item with a certain appearance, flavor, texture, etc - whatever its genetics.

Consequently, a GMO tomato is a tomato, and calling it such is not fraudulent advertizing.

But, as you can see, this is highly subjective. It depends on how different people understand different words. Generally speaking, the law considers the "normal" definition to be the decisive one. For example, if you're the only person in the world who thinks a GMO tomato isn't a tomato, there's been no fraud - because the producer is advertizing to the general population, not just you. If, on the other hand, everybody in the world but the producer considers a GMO tomato to not be a real tomato, then it would be fraud.

In any case, whether there is fraud or not, the proper way of curbing it is to file a lawsuit - not to impose new business regulations.
 
I do go grocery shopping, but I am not forced to.

You seem to assume I care whether it's GMO.

So much for buyer beware or personal responsibility.

If you don't care whether the food you buy is accurately labeled or not, would you like to buy some "fudge" from me? I'd be glad to give you a really great price!
 
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