GMO labeling on the Ballot in Oregon

[specsaregood]

The only libertarian thing you GMO people should be fighting for is allowing non-GMO producers to be able to label their food as such, something currently illegal. Why is that not the focus of your fight? I'll tell you why...infiltration.

I've been hearing that for years, and yet everytime I go to the store I find more and more products labeled non-gmo.

 

[parocks]

Yeah, it's a hoot. Heh. We'll know tomorrow around 5pm though, for sure. It's guess work at the moment.

You have a link to precinct by precinct results in Multnomah? Plus maybe one from 2010?


New Numbers from Multnomah

State Measure 92
Vote for 1
Yes . . . . . . . . . . . . 177,830 62.40
No. . . . . . . . . . . . . 107,150 37.60

These new numbers do not help as much as expected. the margin goes from 66K to 70K, a gain of 4K, but not the 7K or 10K as expected.

New Clackmas
YES 0 0.00% 70,351 46.76% 70,351 46.76%
NO 0 0.00% 80,102 53.24% 80,102 53.24%

This is about 500 more nos. Not as bad as predicted which was 2K. 10000 + 500 - 4000.

Lane appears unchanged - or those were final numbers above.

 

[Natural Citizen]

You have a link to precinct by precinct results in Multnomah? Plus maybe one from 2010?

Only for the general elections. Ballot measures I have what everyone else has with the exception of some word of mouth here and there. Working with paper ballots as well.

 

[Natural Citizen]

You have a link to precinct by precinct results in Multnomah? Plus maybe one from 2010?


New Numbers from Multnomah

State Measure 92
Vote for 1
Yes . . . . . . . . . . . . 177,830 62.40
No. . . . . . . . . . . . . 107,150 37.60

These new numbers do not help as much as expected. the margin goes from 66K to 70K, a gain of 4K, but not the 7K or 10K as expected.

New Clackmas
YES 0 0.00% 70,351 46.76% 70,351 46.76%
NO 0 0.00% 80,102 53.24% 80,102 53.24%

This is about 500 more nos. Not as bad as predicted which was 2K. 10000 + 500 - 4000.

Lane appears unchanged - or those were final numbers above.

Lane is only reporting around 93% the last I heard. Where are you getting these from?

Technically waiting on 4 counties.

 

[invisible]

You have a link to precinct by precinct results in Multnomah? Plus maybe one from 2010?


New Numbers from Multnomah

State Measure 92
Vote for 1
Yes . . . . . . . . . . . . 177,830 62.40
No. . . . . . . . . . . . . 107,150 37.60

These new numbers do not help as much as expected. the margin goes from 66K to 70K, a gain of 4K, but not the 7K or 10K as expected.

New Clackmas
YES 0 0.00% 70,351 46.76% 70,351 46.76%
NO 0 0.00% 80,102 53.24% 80,102 53.24%

This is about 500 more nos. Not as bad as predicted which was 2K. 10000 + 500 - 4000.

Lane appears unchanged - or those were final numbers above.

What percentage of precincts is counted for Multnomah and Clackamas Counties? I want to plug these new numbers back into my spreadsheet.

 

[Natural Citizen]

What percentage of precincts is counted for Multnomah and Clackamas Counties? I want to plug these new numbers back into my spreadsheet.

I don't know if those Clackamas numbers are accurate.

 

[parocks]

What percentage of precincts is counted for Multnomah and Clackamas Counties? I want to plug these new numbers back into my spreadsheet.

http://www.clackamas.us/elections/results.html
https://multco.us/elections

100 on both, according to this but you should check them out.

 

[invisible]

http://www.clackamas.us/elections/results.html
https://multco.us/elections

100 on both, according to this but you should check them out.

Plugging these new numbers into my spreadsheet as per post #86, my projection now looks like:
yes - 738277 = 49.85%
no - 742799 = 50.15%

So it's widened slightly, for failing. However, this new projection factors in the final tally from the county it was doing worst in. Therefore, the final tallies from the last two counties (where it was doing better) will narrow the gap again. If the projections hold exactly to the current percentages in the last two counties, it will very narrowly fail (to the point of recounts, lawsuits, etc), and the previous projection will be pretty accurate. The only chance of it outright passing (even very narrowly) is if the remaining votes to be tallied outperform the current percentages in the two remaining counties. This is going to be very, very close.

 

[Suzanimal]

The only libertarian thing you GMO people should be fighting for is allowing non-GMO producers to be able to label their food as such, something currently illegal. Why is that not the focus of your fight? I'll tell you why...infiltration.

+rep

 

[Natural Citizen]

Originally Posted by green73
The only libertarian thing you GMO people should be fighting for is allowing non-GMO producers to be able to label their food as such, something currently illegal. Why is that not the focus of your fight? I'll tell you why...infiltration.

+rep

green73 said quite a mouthful there when he summed up his logic with that line about infiltration. Hopefully he decides to follow up on that so that we may better understand the phenomenon. That's a rather broad topic itself aside from placing it into context with these particular citizens initiatives.

 

[donnay]

 

[invisible]

green73 said quite a mouthful there when he summed up his logic with that line about infiltration. Hopefully he decides to follow up on that so that we may better understand the phenomenon. That's a rather broad topic itself aside from placing it into context with these particular citizens initiatives.

Actually, his argument is also correct. The real problem here is that the gov't has stacked the deck, allowing fraud to take place. The GMO people aren't required to tell you what they are actually selling you, and those who want to sell non-GMO aren't allowed to tell you what they're selling you (although, as correctly pointed out, some products ARE labeled non-GMO --how is this possible?). Solving either half of this equation would protect against fraud, either or both solutions are legitimate and would remove the distortions of the free market.

Also, as you point out, you can't say that something is the same, when that same something HAS to be unique for a patent to be issued. This is another case of out gov't being bought off, and the deck being stacked so that the free market is being distorted and not allowed to work. There is also the issue of cross-contamination, with the courts stacking the deck even further.

The real infiltration happening here is that of the monsanto shills into every thread where the topic of GMO's happens to pop up. Every time it happens, out come the shills, like clockwork. They trot out the same old arguments against a mandate, and while those arguments may look correct on the surface, they do not address the entire picture of how the deck has been stacked on several levels. Looked at from the narrow perspective of which it is presented, their argument is correct. However, it fails when ALL of the distortions of the free market are examined as a whole, and viewed from the correct perspective of BOTH the free market being allowed to work without being distorted, and that preventing fraud is a legitimate function of gov't.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Actually, his argument is also correct. The real problem here is that the gov't has stacked the deck, allowing fraud to take place. The GMO people aren't required to tell you what they are actually selling you, and those who want to sell non-GMO aren't allowed to tell you what they're selling you (although, as correctly pointed out, some products ARE labeled non-GMO --how is this possible?). Solving either half of this equation would protect against fraud, either or both solutions are legitimate and would remove the distortions of the free market.

Also, as you point out, you can't say that something is the same, when that same something HAS to be unique for a patent to be issued. This is another case of out gov't being bought off, and the deck being stacked so that the free market is being distorted and not allowed to work. There is also the issue of cross-contamination, with the courts stacking the deck even further.

The real infiltration happening here is that of the monsanto shills into every thread where the topic of GMO's happens to pop up. Every time it happens, out come the shills, like clockwork. They trot out the same old arguments against a mandate, and while those arguments may look correct on the surface, they do not address the entire picture of how the deck has been stacked on several levels. Looked at from the narrow perspective of which it is presented, their argument is correct. However, it fails when ALL of the distortions of the free market are examined as a whole, and viewed from the correct perspective of BOTH the free market being allowed to work without being distorted, and that preventing fraud is a legitimate function of gov't.

Yes, I actually agree with his argument. It's his justification there with the line about infiltration that caught my interest. Especially when placed into context with "you GMO people". This personifies green73'sbenchmark for demonstrating political infiltration. libertarianism often serves as the very stalking horse for fascism itself and so infiltration could be debated in a very broad way. I was just thinking that if we want to point fingers then lets do it right is all. You know? Although I do tend to try to avoid that kind of I, me, they, them, us discussion in practice.

Of course, If we take the single case where we saw Monsanto, and the so called all wonderful, all mighty, glorious defenders of liberty, the Koch netork , and what they did when they teamed up and hired the services of Congressman Mike Pompeo to introduce that mercantilist legislation that they penned up that would enforce into law to make it so that people had no means to know what was in their food and that states had no right to protect their citizens from this "government" intrusion we could certainly call that infiltration. What that serves is to protect these mercantilist monopolies from the free market by legally blocking any means for the consumer to make an informed choice. That's political infrastructure that they are using there. And I'll tell you what. It's strikingly similar to the logistics of the TPP in that we see these mercantilist companies and the politicians that they're funding setting up a system where they can legally trash the sovereignty of those whose laws they think will affect their future profits.

Backstory to that is here, btw, but I'll share a snippet below. Of course, we didn't seem to see anyone chime in on that thread with any accusations of infiltration. As I said, libertarianism is often the stalking horse for fascism itself and this is merely one specific example. And, really, I'm only sharing this because it is specific to what is being discussed here in this thread. It's actually a very broad phenomenon that could be expanded upon with regard to many political issues and legislation...

Here is a thread with a bit more thorough discussion that particualr bill and the work of these so called liberty loving superstars...

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...highlight=Koch+ally+introduce+Monsanto-backed

Rep. Mike Pompeo will introduce legislation backed by powerful trade groups to prevent states from passing laws requiring the labeling of genetically-modified foods, according to reports. The bill is linked to biotech giant Monsanto and Koch Industries.

Pompeo will offer the bill in the US House before Congress leaves for Easter recess later this month, The Hill newspaper reported, citing industry sources. Politico also reported on the impending proposal. Pompeo’s office would not comment on the congressman’s intentions for a labeling restriction. The bill includes a “prohibition against mandatory labeling,” according to The Hill, echoing powerful interest groups that have already declared war against such “right to know” labeling laws around the nation.

It was revealed in recent months that powerful farming and biotechnology interest groups like Monsanto were joining forces – under the name 'Coalition for Safe Affordable Food' – to push a federal voluntary labeling standard for food made with genetically-modified organisms (GMOs) in an effort to stem the tide of state legislation seeking to mandate labeling.

Pompeo, a Republican from Kansas, has numerous ties to Charles and David Koch, heads of the formidable multinational corporation Koch Industries.
Pompeo founded Thayer Aerospace (now Nex-Tech Aerospace) with investment funds from Koch Industries. He then was named president of Sentry International, an oilfield equipment company that partners with Koch Industries.

In his initial run for Congress in 2010, Pompeo received more money from the Kochs than any other politician. Once in the House, the congressman introduced bills sympathetic to Koch Industries, The Washington Post reported.

Koch Industries’ subsidiary, Georgia-Pacific, is also a member of the Grocery Manufacturers Association.

“GMA’s selection of Congressman Pompeo as their champion shows how extreme the proposal really is,” said Colin O’Neil, director of government affairs for the Center for Food Safety. “Selecting Pompeo creates an unholy alliance between Monsanto and Koch Industries, two of the most reviled corporations in America.”

But green73's labeling argument itself, yes, I agree.

 

[PRB]

How can you beware or be resposible, if you have no idea what you are buying?

Be responsible by asking what you want to ask, be aware by being aware.

If you have no idea, you can ask, don't complain if nobody wants to answer though.

Nobody is stopping you from asking, and nobody is forcing you to buy, buy what you like, stop making me pay the government to force people to label when only you want to know.

Wanna play this "flip the script" shit game? Oh, so you must already know every bit about every single process and atom of the food you buy, or else you refuse to buy or want to force a label on it?

 

[Natural Citizen]

95% of est. votes counted

[TD="class: candname"]Yes
[/TD]
[TD="class: candbar"][/TD]
[TD="class: candvote"]719,551
[/TD]
[TD="class: candpct"]49.7%
[/TD]

[TD="class: candname win"]No
[/TD]
[TD="class: candbar"][/TD]
[TD="class: candvote"]729,641
[/TD]
[TD="class: candpct"]50.3%
[/TD]

Should pop open here soon with the last couple of counties due out. Those were voting overwhelmingly in the yes side of things. Will see, I suppose. Still paper ballots mailed and post dated out there...

 

[PRB]

95% of est. votes counted

[TD="class: candname"]Yes[/TD]
[TD="class: candbar"][/TD]
[TD="class: candvote"]719,551[/TD]
[TD="class: candpct"]49.7%[/TD]

[TD="class: candname win"]No[/TD]
[TD="class: candbar"][/TD]
[TD="class: candvote"]729,641[/TD]
[TD="class: candpct"]50.3%[/TD]

Should pop open here soon with the last couple of counties due out. Those were voting overwhelmingly in the yes side of things. Will see, I suppose. Still paper ballots mailed and post dated out there...

Wow, insanely close. Whatever the outcome, I'm sure that'll teach people to vote.

 

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

Who the hell needs Monsanto? Their biggest GMO foods are basically unnecessary for human existence anyway. White potatoes and soy are garbage. Oil has some limited use, but the fact that people mostly cook it makes it crap. Corn is so sweet today that you might as well scrap it with the cotton candy-no taste-hybridized apples. Animals that are fed grain are nowhere near the quality of grass fed, so scrap that. And they think they're going to concoct a salmon as good tasting as wild? Yeah, lay it on me, dipshits.

Tomatoes are about the only thing worthwhile; however, those are so easy to grown, that many should be able to cut down on store bought.

 

[PRB]

Who the hell needs Monsanto? Their biggest GMO foods are basically unnecessary for human existence anyway. White potatoes and soy are garbage. Oil has some limited use, but the fact that people mostly cook it makes it crap. Corn is so sweet today that you might as well scrap it with the cotton candy-no taste-hybridized apples. Animals that are fed grain are nowhere near the quality of grass fed, so scrap that. And they think they're going to concoct a salmon as good tasting as wild? Yeah, lay it on me, dipshits.

Tomatoes are about the only thing worthwhile; however, those are so easy to grown, that many should be able to cut down on store bought.

so who/what DO we need?

 

[Natural Citizen]

what DO we need?

 

[Natural Citizen]

Trimming...

> 95% of est. votes counted as of 6:24 pm

[TD="class: candname"]Yes
[/TD]
[TD="class: candbar"][/TD]
[TD="class: candvote"]729,797
[/TD]
[TD="class: candpct"]49.8%
[/TD]

[TD="class: candname win"]No
[/TD]
[TD="class: candbar"][/TD]
[TD="class: candvote"]736,711
[/TD]
[TD="class: candpct"]50.2%
[/TD]

11th we should have all of the mail ins tallied also.

Put my helmet back on fer battle.

I think they're stalling, boys. Heh...