Gasoline the reality for most folks

[TheNewYorker]

I never understood people who moan about gas prices. At worst, you're looking at an additional $20-30/week in family transportation expense. If that is such a burden, perhaps you should take a step back and reevaluate your financial situation and stop living beyond your means.

How do you come up with $20/30 a week? Maybe if you can afford $17,000 cash for one of those new fuel efficient vehicles. I have one not so fuel efficient and I'm paying $100+ more per week than I was 3 years ago. That's $400 a freaking month. That's more than my electric bill and insurance combined

 

[TheNewYorker]

Something you are all not considering is ETHANOL in the fuel. It's a HUGE conspiracy that should be investigated but won't because the corn industry owns the government. Basically speaking they add ethanol to your fuel (it's 10% ethanol in most fuel in the country now), WHICH LOWERS the MPG rating of the fuel substantially (causing you to buy more of it more frequently) and at the same time it's cheaper for them to make the fuel (ethanol is cheaper than oil) so their net profits go up, and yet.. hmm. At the same time they are raising the prices of gas? THIS IS THE BIGGEST SCAM the country has ever seen. But Americans will never catch on.

They put the ethanol in your fuel because it's supposedly better for the environment. But my old car, before they switched to 10% ethanol here in my state, I was getting about 30mpg with my OLD 1994 Nissan Maxima. When they switched to ethanol it dropped to about 22MPG which is a HUGE decrease. Which means I had to fill up more often. Which MEANS more profits for them. But it's all in the name of using a renewable resource (corn!) and being better for the environment. Never mind the fact that it's actually worse for the environment becaues I'm consuming more oil too by filling up more frequently. But the corn industry lobby is huge and they are making billions by selling the corn-refined ethanol to gas companies and the congress allows it.

Here in NY you can't even find any gas that is not 10% ethanol. It's pretty much outlawed now. And worse, ETHANOL DESTROYS your engine if you have an older car, ATV, or boat, lawn mower, etc. Ethanol FUEL destroys boat moters. Lots of boaters are upset here, I live in the finger lakes where there's a lot of boaters. They have to buy new motors for their boats every year because the ethanol destroys it. Same for older cars, it will eventually destroy your engine. Which the car companies love, because they cannot be liable for it, but you have to buy new cars from them when it happens. it's a huge scam triangle, everyone but you profits.

Gas companies are making RECORD PROFITS than they ever have before. (not revenue mind you, but PROFITS, so you can't say it's because of more people using more gas). But yet supposedly they keep raising the gas prices because of unreset in the middle east or whatnot.. yet their profits keep going up. If there was really a shortage of oil, the prices would go up but their profits wouldn't raise that much.

HERE's just one SOURCE
http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/content/may2009/bw20090514_058678.htm


I can verify everything here.

There is a small boat shop about 45 miles from where I live that still sold ethanol-free, good old gasoline. I filled some up and ran it in my vehicle (Jeep Wrangler) for a month. I saw an immediate increase of about 7mpg (was getting 13mpg, went up to about 20mpg), engine ran much better and smoother with no knocking, and she drove with a lot more power.

But unfortunately NY has just about outlawed ethanol free fuel here in this state except for specialty boat shops and such so the drive 45 miles away to fill up on gas hasn't really been worth it in the amazing savings the REAL GAS provides. Wish there was a place closer and I had more storage space, I'd fill up barrels full of the stuff.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Most people in this thread seem to be missing the forest for the trees. When measured in sound currency (gold/silver), gas is at record low prices. As RP said in the debates, sound money could get you gas for a dime/gallon or less.

 

[tod evans]

Most people in this thread seem to be missing the forest for the trees. When measured in sound currency (gold/silver), gas is at record low prices. As RP said in the debates, sound money could get you gas for a dime/gallon or less.

Thank you!
And honestly gas isn't the issue it's a diversionary tactic (I think)

 

[kahless]

The most stupid leftist talking point I keep hearing over and over again, "buy a fuel efficient vehicle". How do people think any kind of delivery, construction, trade or public transport work gets done in this country. The higher prices drives up the cost of everything. The more money people spend on gas the less they have to spend on everything else. The economy is already teetering on collapse and another spike to kill consumer spending will be enough will push it over the edge.

Your average vehicle still is breaking the average families budget. Not everyone can afford a Prius. What ever happened to people complaining that we do not actually have a free market that would provide price competition and all the taxes that drive the price per gallon up.

/rant off

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Thank you!
And honestly gas isn't the issue it's a diversionary tactic (I think)

It is! It's thrown around to set up a dialectic the statists can exploit. (the masses' ignorance doesn't help this )

 

[Danan]

It is! It's thrown around to set up a dialectic the statists can exploit. (the masses' ignorance doesn't help this )

The sad thing is that none of these "experts" seems to know the real answer to rising oil prices. The pseudo-conservative/freemarket guys say it's due to Iran's "saber-rattling" while leftist "economists" tell their audience that it's the fault of some evil oilcompanies and of course speculators.

How difficult can it be to blame the FED, considering the gigantic amound of money they created in the last few years. And the worst part is, if you argue that case to those clowns they say stuff like: "Oh yeah but it can't be the FED's fault, inflation is just ~2-3% and oil prices are increasing much faster!"

I hate them.

 

[Travlyr]

The most stupid leftist talking point I keep hearing over and over again, "buy a fuel efficient vehicle". How do people think any kind of delivery, construction, trade or public transport work gets done in this country. The higher prices drives up the cost of everything. The more money people spend on gas the less they have to spend on everything else. The economy is already teetering on collapse and another spike to kill consumer spending will be enough will push it over the edge.

Your average vehicle still is breaking the average families budget. Not everyone can afford a Prius. What ever happened to people complaining that we do not actually have a free market that would provide price competition and all the taxes that drive the price per gallon up.

/rant off

I dono. The electric vehicle tops that. Coal is burned to make electricity. Why people want to trade their perfectly functioning gasoline engine for coal burning electric is beyond me. Plus, the electric car will burn a lot of energy to keep occupants warm in the winter. I visualize a lot of electric car people stranded in the middle of North Dakota in January wishing they had their internal combustion engine back. It may be good for AAA and for the tow truck business but not for people.

 

[szczebrzeszyn]

I'd love to have your problems. =D

Here in Europe the price for regular gas is at ~1,45 €/litre which is ~ 7,34 $/gallon if I didn't mess up the units...

LOL, yes. And let's not forget, that in some parts of Europe (e.g. Poland), most folks earn $500/month. We got Western goods prices and Eastern wages I'm sure we're only afloat because of the Poles working in UK etc. and sending back the money.

 

[tom7126]

How do you come up with $20/30 a week? Maybe if you can afford $17,000 cash for one of those new fuel efficient vehicles. I have one not so fuel efficient and I'm paying $100+ more per week than I was 3 years ago. That's $400 a freaking month. That's more than my electric bill and insurance combined

I purposefully exclude people with gas-guzzlers because I feel it is their own fault if they cannot afford the exuberant amount of fuel they consume. Sell and reinvest, nobody is forcing you to take 15 miles on the gallon.

Also, since you are consuming so much fuel, I'll just assume you are a professional driver. Average households aren't filling up their tank 4 times a week.

 

[Tod]

It takes more than $40 to fill my tank and I drive a 4 cyl Honda accord

I haven't filled my tank in quite a while (stopped driving last June to save money) but it would run me over $90 with current prices. GMC Sierra P/U.

 

[Travlyr]

I haven't filled my tank in quite a while (stopped driving last June to save money) but it would run me over $90 with current prices. GMC Sierra P/U.

You do realize that that is less than three bucks ... real money ... right?

 

[MelissaWV]

I purposefully exclude people with gas-guzzlers because I feel it is their own fault if they cannot afford the exuberant amount of fuel they consume. Sell and reinvest, nobody is forcing you to take 15 miles on the gallon.

Also, since you are consuming so much fuel, I'll just assume you are a professional driver. Average households aren't filling up their tank 4 times a week.

Commutes in various parts of the country are far longer than in others.

In Miami it took me a steady 45 minutes to get to work.
From where I lived in Maryland to where I worked in Virginia, going around the Beltway, it would take me 1.5 hours most days.
Where I am now, it takes me maybe 20 minutes to get to work... in stop-and-go traffic.

There are other concerns, such as nursing home visits, grocery shopping, and so on.

I do not currently go through four tanks of gas per week... but it's likely close to two. It isn't the lack of fuel efficiency (I get a modest 26-30 mpg depending on where I am driving, but that also comes of having to haul a lot of heavy things all the time), but the number and nature of trips necessary throughout the week.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

I never understood people who moan about gas prices. At worst, you're looking at an additional $20-30/week in family transportation expense. If that is such a burden, perhaps you should take a step back and reevaluate your financial situation and stop living beyond your means.

I am sympathetic for independently owned small transportation and logistics companies. These are the guys who really suffer. And unless we bring back railroads in a big way, the problems will roll over into the retail market.

You have got to be kidding me. An extra $20-30/week adds up huge over time. That's over a thousand bucks subtracted from your yearly salary. If you keep doing that, how long will it take before you are living in poverty conditions, even if you keep "reevaluating" your expenses, that's still money coming out of your paycheck and it's eventually going to bring you down because money doesn't grow on trees.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

The most stupid leftist talking point I keep hearing over and over again, "buy a fuel efficient vehicle". How do people think any kind of delivery, construction, trade or public transport work gets done in this country. The higher prices drives up the cost of everything. The more money people spend on gas the less they have to spend on everything else. The economy is already teetering on collapse and another spike to kill consumer spending will be enough will push it over the edge.

Your average vehicle still is breaking the average families budget. Not everyone can afford a Prius. What ever happened to people complaining that we do not actually have a free market that would provide price competition and all the taxes that drive the price per gallon up.

/rant off

Absolutely 100% right on. I work for a newspaper delivering papers on a country route at night. I get paid about $450-500/week depending on mileage, and that's just the profit. Since I have a job that requires me to drive about 140 miles/day, I get reimbursed for gas, and as gas prices go up, my pay goes up. I consider myself lucky for this, but the company suffers from this because they have to spend more money on their employees that they wouldn't otherwise need to spend. It hurts the business, and although my job is safe for now and the company is still safe, I can guarantee you this is hurting many small businesses because gas is such a necessary commodity, especially today.

 

[tom7126]

Which further confirms my point that the average household spends $20-40 additional on gas per week due to the increased price. Assuming that we are talking $2/gallon vs. $3.50/gallon, if you are filling your tank up 1 1/2 times per week, the price difference is $36 if you have a standard 16 gallon tank.

Myself, I use about half a tank per week. Nobody in America has the right to complain about gas prices while Europe have been chipping away at the $6 ceiling for awhile now.

And for the $1000 in annual income that the price increase consumes, at a mere $25,000 year income that only represents 4% of your money. I think we can all find bigger fish to fry.

 

[gte811i]

Which further confirms my point that the average household spends $20-40 additional on gas per week due to the increased price. Assuming that we are talking $2/gallon vs. $3.50/gallon, if you are filling your tank up 1 1/2 times per week, the price difference is $36 if you have a standard 16 gallon tank.

Myself, I use about half a tank per week. Nobody in America has the right to complain about gas prices while Europe have been chipping away at the $6 ceiling for awhile now.

And for the $1000 in annual income that the price increase consumes, at a mere $25,000 year income that only represents 4% of your money. I think we can all find bigger fish to fry.

Bull

The entire continent of Europe fits well within the US boundaries. When everything is connected closely the increase isn't so painful. Many goods ship from China to the West Coast and are then transported across the entire continental US to get to the East coast. Europe had a vastly interconnected network of trains and alternate transportation. Comparing gas prices at $6 in europe to gas at $3.75 US is apples to oranges.

And it isn't just a 1k increase in the cost of living. That is just the direct cost. Let's follow the money. Fed bails out banks, AIG, etc. Banks park the money at the Fed. Eventually banks decide to risk money. Great ROI right now is commodities and oil (plus geopolitical junk). Money flows to oil. prices go up. Money spills over into other commodities they start to go up. Money starts to spill into the stock market it goes up. Companies now have a little more money, now that the chaft has been sifted during the great recession only the strong are left. Companies now have pricing power, their costs go up, so they raise prices. Finished goods get more expensive. And viola we have the "magic" of inflation.

All the while Joe Blow can't get a raise b/c there are 10 other people just itching for a job, so Joe Blow has no pricing power with his company. His wages stay stagnate while everything else goes up. Eventually, that 1k in direct increase becomes a 2k, 3k, 4k increase as all the other goods increase.

You can see that here. Demand for oil hasn't increased, it has gone down . . . yet oil prices increase. Either the supply of oil is going down (maybe a little but not much), or the supply of dollars is getting bigger.

 

[gte811i]

Man . . . do I hate inflation.

 

[thoughtomator]

I paid $3.75 today to fill my tank... I hardly ever drive so it had been a while for me. It's got to hurt like a bitch for people who drive a lot - the exurbs are going to take another price hit on housing as a result, that much is certain.

 

[Bossobass]

The most stupid leftist talking point I keep hearing over and over again, "buy a fuel efficient vehicle". How do people think any kind of delivery, construction, trade or public transport work gets done in this country. The higher prices drives up the cost of everything. The more money people spend on gas the less they have to spend on everything else. The economy is already teetering on collapse and another spike to kill consumer spending will be enough will push it over the edge.

Your average vehicle still is breaking the average families budget. Not everyone can afford a Prius. What ever happened to people complaining that we do not actually have a free market that would provide price competition and all the taxes that drive the price per gallon up.

/rant off

Commercial use is irrelevant.

Americans burn 400 million gallons every day. 150 BILLION gallons every year. Doubling fuel economy would cause an ocean of unused gasoline to appear as suddenly as the fuel economy rose. Americans could triple fleet fuel economy and just be catching up to Europe and Asia.

The Prius is a joke. The rest of the world drives diesel and the VW Polo (one example) nearly doubles the fuel economy of the Prius and...IF it were available for sale in the US... (remember, Americans don't want those cars) let's just say it isn't an expensive vehicle to buy, maintain or operate.

What the hell does leftist have to do with gas guzzling?

Supply and demand. Slash demand and prices will drop. Keep making excuses to continue driving a dinosaur and prices will be what they'll be.

Bosso