Gasoline the reality for most folks

[ILUVRP]

$7.38USD/gallon @$1.345USD/EURO exchang rate.

At that price, America would be absolutely devastated.

the price of gasoline is about the same all over the world , the only difference is how much tax per gallon is added.

i have posted on forums sooooooo many time i should just cut and paste it , here we go again.

NO commodity that is mostly controlled by a cartel should be traded on our exchanges . the CFTC can do something about this , but big oil/banks/fed res run the world .

the CFTC should raise the margin requirement on crude oil from 6% ( about $6,000 ) to 75% ( $75,000 ) , each contract has a value of about $109,000 , meaning you can control $109,000 worth of crude oil with $6,000 , they should also make every contract for delivery only , if you buy one or a thousand contracts you must take delivery.

even Goldman Sacks says that 27-30% ( i think its much more ) of the crude price is because of big speculators/banks/headge funds. if anyone don't think the oil producing countries don't pump the prices up to sell their 10's of millions of barrels everyday at stupid prices , my advice is ---get out of the kool-aid line.

where is the free trade when we have a controlled commodity traded on our exchanges , the price of crude controles the cracks ( gasoline--heating oil--diesel fuel )

this is so stupid , whats going on i can't believe it . it is something we can do something about. someone tell me how raising margin requirements and making contracts for delivery only will hurt any normal avg american .

the real price of crude should be $50/ba--gas $1.60/gal--diesel fuel $1.65/gal--heating oil $1.60/gal

i do own USO stock that tracks crude prices , also have phy gold/silver.

i get tired of the --how much gas you can buy with a silver quarter or silver dime , when silver goes to $100/oz i guess gas will be about $11/gallon

get real.

 

[walt]

Another view:
Using constitutional money (gold and silver) gasoline is much cheaper now than in the 1950's when you could buy a gallon for a silver quarter. A silver quarter is now worth over $6.00 in Federal Reserve notes. So gasoline would need to be over $6.00 to be up to 1950's prices.

I expect to see whining like the others on this thread on some neocon site, not here. Kingfisher's post is one of the most rational I've seen.

$2,040 a year for increases in fuel are NOTHING compared to the $XX,000 per person increase in the national debt per year.

Until we get people to understand and emotionally care more about that latter then the former, we are f$&ked.

Unfortunately it will likely be once it is too late.

 

[slamhead]

Stop complaining. Buy a bike, put on your satgat hat and be happy. It works for the Chinese peasants. Just make sure you have your papers in order if you want to enter the elite economic areas.

 

[Danan]

$2,040 a year for increases in fuel are NOTHING compared to the $XX,000 per person increase in the national debt per year.

Well the two are interrelated.

 

[Just Flossin']

Gas and home heating oil, at their current prices, are a disaster for me. They severely limit my finances. At a certain point, it wouldn't even be worth going to work.

 

[walt]

Well the two are interrelated.

Exactly. the latter is cause, the other is effect. This is where Ron's message does indeed have sort of a cap, it is not translated into common impacts that the average folks can EASILY understand.

In my business consulting with mid-size company CEOs I have them get to root causes, most people are chasing the solutions to the symptoms (which is useless).

The ultimate issue is the wrong education and conditioning...that is another long thread.

 

[azxd]

An election won't save us from this ... The wheels have been in motion, and will not soon stop.

 

[slamhead]

People mentioned 1950. What is the percentage change in gas prices to average wage from that period?

 

[Danan]

the price of gasoline is about the same all over the world , the only difference is how much tax per gallon is added.

That's true.

i have posted on forums sooooooo many time i should just cut and paste it , here we go again.

NO commodity that is mostly controlled by a cartel should be traded on our exchanges . the CFTC can do something about this , but big oil/banks/fed res run the world .

the CFTC should raise the margin requirement on crude oil from 6% ( about $6,000 ) to 75% ( $75,000 ) , each contract has a value of about $109,000 , meaning you can control $109,000 worth of crude oil with $6,000 , they should also make every contract for delivery only , if you buy one or a thousand contracts you must take delivery.

even Goldman Sacks says that 27-30% ( i think its much more ) of the crude price is because of big speculators/banks/headge funds. if anyone don't think the oil producing countries don't pump the prices up to sell their 10's of millions of barrels everyday at stupid prices , my advice is ---get out of the kool-aid line.

where is the free trade when we have a controlled commodity traded on our exchanges , the price of crude controles the cracks ( gasoline--heating oil--diesel fuel )

this is so stupid , whats going on i can't believe it . it is something we can do something about. someone tell me how raising margin requirements and making contracts for delivery only will hurt any normal avg american .

the real price of crude should be $50/ba--gas $1.60/gal--diesel fuel $1.65/gal--heating oil $1.60/gal

Cartels are normally quite unstable. This case is a little diffrent, because the cartels (OPEC, etc) are formed by nations being able to use force and not by corporations.

If you ignore the moral reason for not interfering in the market place then: Yes, you maybe could increase consumer surplus by various regulations. But I don't see how "speculation" increases the price of oil in the longer term. Speculation flattens the volatility of the price of goods, it doesn't increase the price overall.

The only thing that really increases the price is that OPEC comes together and says: "Hey guys, let's not compete with each other but rather set the price at a monopoly level!"

But even that wouldn't be a big problem. As already pointed out in this thread: The oil price hasn't gone up messured against other commodities in the last decades. In fact it has gone down. The big problem is the other side of this transaction, the value of the Dollar. Without the FED, nobody would complain about high oil prices.

Personally, I sure wouldn't interfier in the oil market. Not only is it immoral to do so (a cartel is equivalent to a union if all it does is to decide to not sell it's product under a certain price and doesn't use force against others that don't stick to the bargain), but also it would be really difficult and very technical. The possibility of bad unintended consequences would be too high.

 

[Plague-of-Locutus]

The day the EPA mandated diesel fuel be refined to ULSD (ultra low sulfur) was when we got shafted at the pump. I think it was in 2006. Since the rest of the world uses the low sulfur diesel, the refiners started making more money exporting the fuel. You kick in the global market along with supply and demand and you get higher prices here at home. We were fine when we had our dirty fuel. The rest of the world didn't want it, we had a surplus of it and the thirsty trucking fleet didn't have to pay a small fortune to ship goods.

 

[Travlyr]

People mentioned 1950. What is the percentage change in gas prices to average wage from that period?

General labor paid @ $5/day in the early 50's. Today silver dollars are worth $27.50 ea. So, 5 x $27.25 = $136.00 per day.

 

[Travlyr]

I think you overlook the fact that everything you need/eat/use/wear/etc. travels on a truck running on diesel. Everything requires petroleum in today's world. So where you might be correct on the impact of gasoline costs being insignificant to a normal family (and I think you're a bit low on your assumption), the impact of price inflation in oil due to monetary inflation is much, much greater, the consequences of which are definitely being felt in household (and business) budgets across the nation.

What is crazy is that diesel fuel is more expensive than gasoline. That's crazy. That's a scam for sure.

 

[3kgt]

To fill my tank is $80 now. Its a big deal to me.

I make 11.75 per hour..

That is one of the things that makes me feel very un-free.

 

[ILUVRP]

"""But even that wouldn't be a big problem. As already pointed out in this thread: The oil price hasn't gone up messured against other commodities in the last decades. In fact it has gone down. The big problem is the other side of this transaction, the value of the Dollar. Without the FED, nobody would complain about high oil prices.

Personally, I sure wouldn't interfier in the oil market. Not only is it immoral to do so (a cartel is equivalent to a union if all it does is to decide to not sell it's product under a certain price and doesn't use force against others that don't stick to the bargain), but also it would be really difficult and very technical. The possibility of bad unintended consequences would be too high.""""

i say again what harm would be done if margins were upped and contracts were for delivery only ( anyone ever hear of Bunker Hunt )

name ONE other commodity that is controlled being traded on exchanges. the Texas Railroad Commission did control prices/production before OPEC , then in 1983 crude started trading as a commodity.

i wonder who this helped , anyone that thinks this helps america don't really understand where the bad guys of the world get their funds .


as far as the prices raise being the same as other products , tell that to open road truckers that cost them about $90 to drive a hundard miles , just for the fuel. people making $10/hr paying $400-$500 a month for gas/heating oil .

like i said a hundard times, who would be hurt by higher margins and making contract for delivery only.

i will answer that for everyone ---big specs--headge funds--big brokers---opec-- bad guys around the world.

 

[Lindsey]

$7.38USD/gallon @$1.345USD/EURO exchang rate.

At that price, America would be absolutely devastated.

Can't forget that most of Europe has reliable mass transit. Using mass transit to get around is really not an option for most Americans.

 

[azxd]

Most families I know burn through less than 2 tanks a week so even if gas prices at the pump rise $1.00 per gallon that works out to less than $40.00 per week.

Granted that amount of money isn't insubstantial but given all of the other factors affecting a families living standard it seems as though if a person looked at the costs of food and housing, clothing etc. the gas/oil part of the economy gets much more emphasis in the syndicated media than it deserves.

Most of us can regulate to some extent how much gas/oil we burn through but the other necessities of life are pretty much a given.

Am I the odd duck here who feels as though there's been some sort of diversion tactic going on?

$42+k per-person in government induced debt = 20 YEARS of $1.00 a gallon increase in gas! And that is with today's FRN value.

So, is the price of gas really that important to most folks here? Somehow I don't think so

The problem with your logic is that you are only applying it to yourself, and not accounting for all the items that will also increase (more slowly) if the price per dollar keeps climbing.

Translation = I can afford $8 per gallon due to my specific and planned lifestyle.
Many are currently balancing and weighing options like food versus getting to work, so they can continue to get paid a wage that is barely allowing them to survive, and that group has given up all luxury items ... They are living in economic survival mode !!!

Ask yourself one simple question, if you don't believe the mathematical logic others have expressed in this thread ... Have your daily expenses increased in the last few years ?
If you answer yes, then you can see how such an increase does in fact impact much more than what you put in YOUR vehicles tank.

 

[justatrey]

The problem is that so many Americans simply don't have that extra $40/week. They're living paycheck to paycheck and the coming inflation is going to be devastating.

Just remember the real cause of the problem: the Federal Reserve robbing us by printing (counterfeiting) our currency. Gas hasn't gone up at all when priced in gold:

 

[Tod]

$7.38USD/gallon @$1.345USD/EURO exchang rate.

At that price, America would be absolutely devastated.

In much of the US, public transportation is awful to non-existent. A few of the metro areas have better and I would guess a couple have pretty good, but they are nothing compared to what you find in much of europe.

A few years ago, when I was still in the corporate world, I was over in Cologne, and had some business meetings in a small town, Gevelsberg, about 45 min away. It was SO easy and convenient to make the trip by train (once I figured out how to buy the tickets! lol). Our last trip back, a guy from the company drove us back. It took longer.

I had a similar experience on several other trips over there to Bavaria, with excursions to Austria.

Can't really do that kind of thing over here: we are much more dependent upon the auto.


I'm seeing the effects of inflation with my own small business: people are definitely getting pinched.

The Farm Bureau does an annual computation of the cost of a Thanksgiving Dinner, and last year's was up 13% over the previous year.

 

[Johnny Appleseed]

The good thing though is that high fuel prices are going to force localization.

 

[slamhead]

General labor paid @ $5/day in the early 50's. Today silver dollars are worth $27.50 ea. So, 5 x $27.25 = $136.00 per day.

Actually this is what I was getting at.

1950
Average Hourly wage - $1.44
Gas $0.27/gal

2012
Average Hourly wage - $10.24
Gas $3.65/gal

1950 gas to hourly wage - 18.75%
2012 gas to hourly wage - 35.64%