Gary Johnson booed at 2016 LP convention.

[CPUd]

This. I'm quite surprised by all the Gary hate in this (and other) threads. Johnson/Weld are the biggest names to run in the LP, ever. They're drawing major media attention to the liberty cause, and Johnson's polling numbers are huge (suddenly the biggest third party showing in over two decades). The LP would be crazy not to nominate Johnson, and liberty-minded folks would be crazy not to vote for him, simply because they disagree with him on some issues.

I think a lot of this is happening because of the increased media exposure. It's a great opportunity to turn people on to the LP who otherwise would not know it existed. Some people want their standard bearer to be the best representative of what the LP is all about, rather than the strongest possible candidate in a general election.

Not arguing either side, just pointing it out.

 

[phill4paul]

This. I'm quite surprised by all the Gary hate in this (and other) threads. Johnson/Weld are the biggest names to run in the LP, ever. They're drawing major media attention to the liberty cause, and Johnson's polling numbers are huge (suddenly the biggest third party showing in over two decades). The LP would be crazy not to nominate Johnson, and liberty-minded folks would be crazy not to vote for him, simply because they disagree with him on some issues.

I think the main issue with some is that if the LP makes a strong showing then it needs to be with a candidate that fully embodies libertarian principles. If Jeb Bush suddenly entered the LP race and was polling in the 20% I don't think that would necessarily be a good thing to support him, just because he was polling well.

 

[RJ Liberty]

I think a lot of this is happening because of the increased media exposure. It's a great opportunity to turn people on to the LP who otherwise would not know it existed. Some people want their standard bearer to be the best representative of what the LP is all about, rather than the strongest possible candidate in a general election.

Not arguing either side, just pointing it out.

Makes sense. But by the same token, without Johnson, the LP likely will go back to being a fringe party with no media exposure. There's very little media coverage of McAfee outside of "person of interest in a murder"-type stories. Petersen, too, has very little media coverage. I'd hate to see the LP, the only liberty-leaning party which will have 50-state ballot access, pass up a major boost over a "purity test" that no candidate can completely pass.

 

[RJ Liberty]

I think the main issue with some is that if the LP makes a strong showing then it needs to be with a candidate that fully embodies libertarian principles. If Jeb Bush suddenly entered the LP race and was polling in the 20% I don't think that would necessarily be a good thing to support him, just because he was polling well.

No indeed. But Gary is no JEB!, and Gary has a four-year history with the LP, while McAfee was forming his own party up until last year. Gary also has major media coverage and a host of major endorsements: Matt Welch, Drew Carey, Richard Winger, Jim Gray, Teller from Penn and Teller. Austin Petersen doesn't even have a Wikipedia article.

 

[Rudeman]

Makes sense. But by the same token, without Johnson, the LP likely will go back to being a fringe party with no media exposure. There's very little media coverage of McAfee outside of "person of interest in a murder"-type stories. Petersen, too, has very little media coverage. I'd hate to see the LP, the only liberty-leaning party which will have 50-state ballot access, pass up a major boost over a "purity test" that no candidate can completely pass.

The LP is a fringe party with limited media exposure. The reason GJ is getting the most attention is because he's the presumed frontrunner and a lot of people hate Hillary and Trump. It has little to do with GJ (2012). In fact I've seen more outsiders endorse AP.

 

[Anti-Neocon]

I don't really like Petersen but Johnson and McAfee both have their advantages.

 

[r3volution 3.0]

This thread is a prime example of why the LP and libertarians are a circular firing squad. You won't support Gary because of [insert your impossibly nuanced pet issue here].

We have a LP candidate polling double digits. He's a well liked 2 term governor and his likely running mate was a governor too. The presumptive nominees for the D and R are the least liked in generations. This could be a huge breakthrough in cracking the stranglehold of the 2 party system.

I don't think Gary is the greatest candidate. I don't agree with him on issues, I'm pro life, he isn't. I sucked it up and voted for him last time anyway and will again. He's the best candidate the LP has with the most name recognition. I say just go with it. He's not going to be potus anyway, but you might make a difference in the future voting for him.

^^^this

I think the main issue with some is that if the LP makes a strong showing then it needs to be with a candidate that fully embodies libertarian principles. If Jeb Bush suddenly entered the LP race and was polling in the 20% I don't think that would necessarily be a good thing to support him, just because he was polling well.

The libertarian credentials of the nominee don't matter, within reason (i.e. not Jeb of course). Gary's libertarian enough to get the job done. The vast majority of people we're targeting for recruitment into the broad liberty movement don't know the difference between Gary and a true libertarian, and never will. The kind of debates we have here over relatively trivial ideological distinctions are Greek to most everyone in the real world, including most people in the broad liberty movement who voted for Ron, Rand, Amash, and Massie and who we need to vote for similar candidate in the future.

 

[CPUd]

I bet McAfee or Petersen win the nomination they have the same shot at polling 15% within the next couple weeks. The LP needs to do its part as well to take advantage of the press attention.

 

[RJ Liberty]

The LP is a fringe party with limited media exposure.

If you had said this a few weeks ago, I would have agreed. But the fact is, Gary's been getting a ton of mainstream media attention after those double-digit polls came out. CBS News, NBC News, , LA Times, MSNBC, Washington Post, Politico, Fox News, Time, the Boston Globe, the Boston Herald, The Guardian, Salon, Yahoo, the New Yorker, AOL, the Washington Times, and Huffington Post all ran stories on Johnson in the last 48 hours, many of them serious stories reporting on his campaign and high poll numbers.

Do you really believe anyone in the MSM will treat Austin Petersen, who has no experience and in fact not even a Wikipedia article, or John "murder suspect" McAfee like a mainstream, credible candidate? If so, I have a bridge to sell you.

The reason GJ is getting the most attention is because he's the presumed frontrunner and a lot of people hate Hillary and Trump.

Sort of. The reason Johnson is getting attention is due to his (comparatively) huge polling numbers. AP and JM do not have any poll numbers.

 

[CPUd]

If you had said this a few weeks ago, I would have agreed. But the fact is, Gary's been getting a ton of mainstream media attention after those double-digit polls came out. CBS News, NBC News, , LA Times, MSNBC, Washington Post, Politico, Fox News, Time, the Boston Globe, the Boston Herald, The Guardian, Salon, Yahoo, the New Yorker, AOL, the Washington Times, and Huffington Post all ran stories on Johnson in the last 48 hours, many of them serious stories reporting on his campaign and high poll numbers.

Do you really believe anyone in the MSM will treat Austin Petersen, who has no experience and in fact not even a Wikipedia article, or John "murder suspect" McAfee like a mainstream, credible candidate? If so, I have a bridge to sell you.



Sort of. The reason Johnson is getting attention is due to his (comparatively) huge polling numbers. AP and JM do not have any poll numbers.

Considering the D and R candidates, I'd say none of the LP candidates have worries about being taken seriously this cycle.

 

[younglibertarian]

Considering the D and R candidates, I'd say none of the LP candidates have worries about being taken seriously this cycle.

Not that people vote on seriousness anyway.....

 

[nasaal]

I bet McAfee or Petersen win the nomination they have the same shot at polling 15% within the next couple weeks. The LP needs to do its part as well to take advantage of the press attention.

McAfee says sensational things far too often to have consistent polling. Talking about needing to be lunatics will not appeal to people who are frightened of lunatics like the D and R candidates. Johnson is the proper face of opening the movement up. He calls himself socially liberal, and fiscally conservative....that's where a ton of America believe themselves to be. I don't like him on some issues, but I find him far more likable than his competitors, and likable while being fairly libertarian is what is needed.

Purity will never be achieved at this point in a nation like this.

 

[CPUd]

Gary is currently getting booed again at the real debate. on CSPAN right now.

 

[Rudeman]

If you had said this a few weeks ago, I would have agreed. But the fact is, Gary's been getting a ton of mainstream media attention after those double-digit polls came out. CBS News, NBC News, , LA Times, MSNBC, Washington Post, Politico, Fox News, Time, the Boston Globe, the Boston Herald, The Guardian, Salon, Yahoo, the New Yorker, AOL, the Washington Times, and Huffington Post all ran stories on Johnson in the last 48 hours, many of them serious stories reporting on his campaign and high poll numbers.

Do you really believe anyone in the MSM will treat Austin Petersen, who has no experience and in fact not even a Wikipedia article, or John "murder suspect" McAfee like a mainstream, credible candidate? If so, I have a bridge to sell you.



Sort of. The reason Johnson is getting attention is due to his (comparatively) huge polling numbers. AP and JM do not have any poll numbers.

You said it yourself, Johnson only got media attention because of his poll numbers. Why is he getting those numbers? Because Hillary and Trump are 2 of the most hated nominees ever(?). Johnson hasn't done anything to gain that attention other than not being Trump or Hillary. In fact the only attention Johnson has garnered on his own as of late has been negative (mostly due to his VP pick).

Do I think Austin Peterson would get that attention if he won the nomination? Yes (if not more), he's already gotten multiple endorsements from conservative media, he's closer to Rand/Ron, Amash, Massie etc. than GJ. He has much greater appeal to the anti-Trump folks and can also appeal to the anti-Hillary people. He is much more capable of articulating his ideas than GJ. etc.

You keep downplaying Austin Petersen but why is he seriously challenging GJ? If GJ was as great as you portray him as then this wouldn't even be a discussion.

But hey Austin Petersen doesn't have a Wikipedia page...

 

[69360]

I think the main issue with some is that if the LP makes a strong showing then it needs to be with a candidate that fully embodies libertarian principles. If Jeb Bush suddenly entered the LP race and was polling in the 20% I don't think that would necessarily be a good thing to support him, just because he was polling well.

GJ mostly embodies their principles. Also he has a legitimacy and experience the others don't. If you haven't noticed yet, every libertarian has different principles...

I bet McAfee or Petersen win the nomination they have the same shot at polling 15% within the next couple weeks. The LP needs to do its part as well to take advantage of the press attention.

I'd take that bet. Name your amount and who you want to hold the money.

 

[69360]

You said it yourself, Johnson only got media attention because of his poll numbers. Why is he getting those numbers? Because Hillary and Trump are 2 of the most hated nominees ever(?). Johnson hasn't done anything to gain that attention other than not being Trump or Hillary. In fact the only attention Johnson has garnered on his own as of late has been negative (mostly due to his VP pick).

Do I think Austin Peterson would get that attention if he won the nomination? Yes (if not more), he's already gotten multiple endorsements from conservative media, he's closer to Rand/Ron, Amash, Massie etc. than GJ. He has much greater appeal to the anti-Trump folks and can also appeal to the anti-Hillary people. He is much more capable of articulating his ideas than GJ. etc.

You keep downplaying Austin Petersen but why is he seriously challenging GJ? If GJ was as great as you portray him as then this wouldn't even be a discussion.

But hey Austin Petersen doesn't have a Wikipedia page...

Zero name recognition, zero experience. He's a nobody. You don't start paying baseball in the majors.

 

[Rudeman]

Zero name recognition, zero experience. He's a nobody. You don't start paying baseball in the majors.

The vast majority of people have no clue who GJ or any other LP candidate is. All that matters right now is that they aren't Trump or Hillary, that's the only reason why anyone from the LP would get any attention right now. The key is who is most capable of growing that attention and actually getting people out to vote for them.

GJ had his chance last election and blamed the Paul's and pot smokers when he failed but in reality it's him. He isn't a good candidate, he's being handed votes on a silver platter and he's already going out of his way to blow it. He has done nothing to change or grow from 2012, in fact imo he's gotten worse.

 

[RJ Liberty]

You said it yourself, Johnson only got media attention because of his poll numbers. Why is he getting those numbers? Because Hillary and Trump are 2 of the most hated nominees ever(?). Johnson hasn't done anything to gain that attention other than not being Trump or Hillary.

And, of course, being the eight-year governor of New Mexico, which gave him the credibility and gravitas that Petersen has yet to earn.

In fact the only attention Johnson has garnered on his own as of late has been negative (mostly due to his VP pick).

While I agree that Johnson garnered negative attention due to picking Weld, the negative attention was not from the MSM but from within the LP. Yet in 2006, Weld ran for governor of New York under the LP, who nominated him, but somehow now he's "not good enough".

Do I think Austin Peterson would get that attention if he won the nomination? Yes (if not more),

Then you are kidding yourself. As 69360 succinctly put it, "He's a nobody. You don't start playing baseball in the majors." The MSM will emphatically not take his candidacy seriously.

he's already gotten multiple endorsements from conservative media,

Can you name more than three conservative MSM outlets which have endorsed him? And how does that compare to Johnson, hmmm?

You keep downplaying Austin Petersen but why is he seriously challenging GJ? If GJ was as great as you portray him as then this wouldn't even be a discussion.

Anything can be a discussion on the Internet, no matter how ridiculous. The other day, someone here actually wrote that they didn't support William Weld, due to "his stupid nose".

But hey Austin Petersen doesn't have a Wikipedia page...

69360 has already pointed out the problem with Petersen not having a Wikipedia page: he's no one. He has very few accomplishments, much less running a city, county, or state. I'll support anyone the LP nominates, but I think they'd be shooting themselves in the foot by nominating Petersen, who is a kid who won't be taken seriously, either by the media or by the general public.

 

[69360]

The vast majority of people have no clue who GJ or any other LP candidate is. All that matters right now is that they aren't Trump or Hillary, that's the only reason why anyone from the LP would get any attention right now. The key is who is most capable of growing that attention and actually getting people out to vote for them.

GJ had his chance last election and blamed the Paul's and pot smokers when he failed but in reality it's him. He isn't a good candidate, he's being handed votes on a silver platter and he's already going out of his way to blow it. He has done nothing to change or grow from 2012, in fact imo he's gotten worse.

Recent polling shows you are wrong. 1 in 10 voters not only know who GJ is, they say they will vote for him. From that I think we could fairly assume say 25% or so of voters may know who he is.

Yes, he is going to fail and blow it. He isn't going to be potus. But nominating 2 former governors will probably get the most votes for the LP.

 

[William Tell]

Recent polling shows you are wrong. 1 in 10 voters not only know who GJ is, they say they will vote for him. From that I think we could fairly assume say 25% or so of voters may know who he is.

No, you can't. Remember when Dees Nutz was polling so high?. If you see Gary at 10 percent it just means people hate Hillary/Trump. Virgil Goode polled about 10 in Virginia in 2012 but got less than 1 percent in the election.