Gallup Poll: 76% of Americans would vote to raise minimum wage to $9/hr

[parocks]

In a free society, those working menial jobs would have a far better chance of making ends meet than a person working a menial job in our current society. No need to demonize the poor; they didn't create society as it exists now.

Yup.

We've had the minimum wage for years and years. Periodically it goes up. Doesn't seem to hurt the economy at all. The minimum wage is supposed to keep pace with inflation. It's fallen behind, should raise it to keep up.

Very little of the extremely fd up st that we're experiencing now has anything to do, at all, with people with minimum wage jobs. There are a lot of "bad guys" you can point the finger at and say "it's your fault", or "the world would be a better place if you were dead". People making minimum wage are not those people. They're the good guys.

 

[CaptLouAlbano]

My son and daughter-in-law own a couple of those yogurt shops that are popping up all over the place. They have a self-serve machine that looks similar to the one in that article. It might be from that company. Their stores are about 500-750 sq ft, packed all the time and they have only two people on the floor at any given time. Huge, huge profits.

 

[parocks]

Oh I agree that the system sucks, we are all hurt by big government. But I am referring to someone earning minimum wage. Someone working at Walmart making $13 an hour is not earning minimum wage, even though the job is menial.

Nonetheless, if someone is 40 years old and the best job they can attain is a clerk at a mini market earning $7.25 an hour, they have made some choices in their life that have effected their ability to earn money. Eliminate all government, and those folks will still be at the bottom of the pecking order. Granted they may have an easier time making ends meet than they do today, but they will still be at the bottom of the rung.

Yes, there are smarter people and stupider people. Harder workers and lazier ones. There are people who will spy for the government, and take big paychecks for doing so, and people who won't. There are a lot of sick and evil people in the world who do evil things and make a lot of money doing that. And then there are the others, who won't do sick and evil things. They get paid a lot less. The CEO of Monsanto isn't making minimum wage. All the Fed Gov employees at the NSA are not making minimum wage.

McDonalds is not going out of business if the minimum wage is raised to $10 an hour. People are not going to stop going to drive thrus if a McChicken is no longer $1, but $1.25.

 

[CaptLouAlbano]

McDonalds is not going out of business if the minimum wage is raised to $10 an hour. People are not going to stop going to drive thrus if a McChicken is no longer $1, but $1.25.

Most McDonalds are independently owned. Business owners typically will cut costs before they have to raise prices.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Gallup Poll: "One Reason Why We Can't Haz Our Freedomz".

 

[parocks]

Most McDonalds are independently owned. Business owners typically will cut costs before they have to raise prices.

Yeah. And that meaning what?

People are still going to use drive thrus. People aren't going to start saying "I'm going to avoid eating today because my McChicken is a little more."

Remember the economic crash of 1962, when there was runaway inflation because the minimum wage went up 20%? Right, neither do I. Because it doesn't really matter. The minimum wage goes up all the time, and the economy doesn't get crushed when it does.

With fast food, we aren't competing with China, or with slave or prison labor. Fast food restaurants all have the same pool of workers to choose from. If the minimum wage goes up for McDonalds, it goes up for Burger King. And the people who buy fast food won't care.

Remember McDonalds? In 1965, the minimum wage went up. And that minimum wage hike killed McDonalds. They went out of business. Oh, wait, that didn't happen at all. McDonalds has been doing great pretty much our entire lives. McDonalds didn't even exist before the minimum wage. McDonalds started when there was a minimum wage, and was able to become a huge company, even though there was a minimum wage, and the minimum wage kept going up. No reason to think that the minimum wage is any sort of barrier to McDs

 

[Keith and stuff]

Yup.

We've had the minimum wage for years and years. Periodically it goes up. Doesn't seem to hurt the economy at all. The minimum wage is supposed to keep pace with inflation. It's fallen behind, should raise it to keep up.

Gonna have to disagree 100%. Minimum wage laws hurt everyone, but especially teenagers, minorities, less educated people and the elderly. Of course, I'm not saying you hate black people or anything, but minimum wage laws by design, target young, uneducated black people. My guess is that many of the people pushing for anti-liberty policies like taxes on groceries, minimum wage increases and welfare do it because they hate black people. It's the same reason many of the early gun laws in the US were created.

Race, Politics and the Minimum Wage
Minimum-wage proponents argue that a higher wage floor will improve the standard of living for poor families. The reality is that higher labor costs reduce employment, especially for young black men.
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748703859304576307201724065640

 

[gwax23]

Yup.

We've had the minimum wage for years and years. Periodically it goes up. Doesn't seem to hurt the economy at all. The minimum wage is supposed to keep pace with inflation. It's fallen behind, should raise it to keep up.

Very little of the extremely fd up st that we're experiencing now has anything to do, at all, with people with minimum wage jobs. There are a lot of "bad guys" you can point the finger at and say "it's your fault", or "the world would be a better place if you were dead". People making minimum wage are not those people. They're the good guys.

What?

How do you have 9400 posts on this forum and decent rep while you seem to not only be in favor of the status quo minimum wage but you think it should go up?

Read a book on economics please before you spout ignorant nonsense about how the minimum wage is harmless.

Whatever book you pick please start on the chapter that deals with a little concept called "Supply and Demand" read it once and then read it again. Maybe a third time.

 

[Feeding the Abscess]

What?

How do you have 9400 posts on this forum and decent rep while you seem to not only be in favor of the status quo minimum wage but you think it should go up?

Read a book on economics please before you spout ignorant nonsense about how the minimum wage is harmless.

Whatever book you pick please start on the chapter that deals with a little concept called "Supply and Demand" read it once and then read it again. Maybe a third time.

A more charitable take on his posts would be that it doesn't hurt the company, which either hires fewer employees, automates more positions, or cuts costs elsewhere. But it does harm those who would have been profitable at that lower wage, since they are no longer employable.

 

[gwax23]

A more charitable take on his posts would be that it doesn't hurt the company, which either hires fewer employees, automates more positions, or cuts costs elsewhere. But it does harm those who would have been profitable at that lower wage, since they are no longer employable.

Charity shmarity

Of course it hurts the company, now they will fire people yes, but they will have to make do with a smaller workforce. Say they need 5 people to effectively run the place, now they will have only 3. Automation is only a realistic option for some businesses and bigger ones at that. Even if they automate its still a big investment which will cost them in the short term and still might not be as effective as an actual human.

Cutting costs where? This will only reduce the quality of the good or services this company provides if it has to cut costs to keep up with a government regulation.

This stupid law hurts everyone. The Company, consumers and the employees.

Saying "Well it just hurts the company so its not that bad" is a ridiculous line of thinking.

Im registered on a few political forums. When I go to these forums I have to read through absolute statists, left wing, progressive trash. I look forward to coming to the Ron Paul forums hoping to see fellow libertarians and freedom lovers denouncing stupid government policies such as the Minimum wage. Yet I have to cringe when I read ignorant trifle such as parocks post which is not only excusing the existing minimum wage but calling for it to be constantly raised with inflation.

The best thing that could happen to the minimum wage is that it wont keep up with inflation to the point that its become so low its effect on the workforce will be minimal. The higher its raised the more people effective as it covers more levels of productivity in the work force. There was a huge period of time the minimum wage in this country wasnt raised (30 years I think) and it became so low most companies (Including ironically McDonalds) paid more than Minimum wage. Much more.

Also I havent even brought up the moral problems with the minimum wage (Forcing people to hire people at a government set price/wage, very contradictory to freedom and a belief in property rights)

Minimum wage is such an easy economic concept to grasp, and its negative consequences are recognized by most economists (mainstream and heterodox) so its baffles me that I read defense of it on these very forums.

 

[Feeding the Abscess]

Charity shmarity

Of course it hurts the company, now they will fire people yes, but they will have to make do with a smaller workforce. Say they need 5 people to effectively run the place, now they will have only 3. Automation is only a realistic option for some businesses and bigger ones at that. Even if they automate its still a big investment which will cost them in the short term and still might not be as effective as an actual human.

Cutting costs where? This will only reduce the quality of the good or services this company provides if it has to cut costs to keep up with a government regulation.

This stupid law hurts everyone. The Company, consumers and the employees.

Saying "Well it just hurts the company so its not that bad" is a ridiculous line of thinking.

Im registered on a few political forums. When I go to these forums I have to read through absolute statists, left wing, progressive trash. I look forward to coming to the Ron Paul forums hoping to see fellow libertarians and freedom lovers denouncing stupid government policies such as the Minimum wage. Yet I have to cringe when I read ignorant trifle such as parocks post which is not only excusing the existing minimum wage but calling for it to be constantly raised with inflation.

The best thing that could happen to the minimum wage is that it wont keep up with inflation to the point that its become so low its effect on the workforce will be minimal. The higher its raised the more people effective as it covers more levels of productivity in the work force. There was a huge period of time the minimum wage in this country wasnt raised (30 years I think) and it became so low most companies (Including ironically McDonalds) paid more than Minimum wage. Much more.

Also I havent even brought up the moral problems with the minimum wage (Forcing people to hire people at a government set price/wage, very contradictory to freedom and a belief in property rights)

Minimum wage is such an easy economic concept to grasp, and its negative consequences are recognized by most economists (mainstream and heterodox) so its baffles me that I read defense of it on these very forums.

I agree that minimum wage laws are terrible. As are all state-imposed regulations. (I fly the black and yellow flag)

I was just trying to be charitable to parocks.

 

[gwax23]

I agree that minimum wage laws are terrible. As are all state-imposed regulations. (I fly the black and yellow flag)

I was just trying to be charitable to parocks.

Your too nice then.

 

[parocks]

What?

How do you have 9400 posts on this forum and decent rep while you seem to not only be in favor of the status quo minimum wage but you think it should go up?

Read a book on economics please before you spout ignorant nonsense about how the minimum wage is harmless.

Whatever book you pick please start on the chapter that deals with a little concept called "Supply and Demand" read it once and then read it again. Maybe a third time.

I was an economics major.

Supply and Demand. If the price of good X goes up, people will switch to good Y. But here, all the prices at all the fast food would go up.

We don't live in a free market.

All Econ 101 about how prices are arrived at is wrong. Yes, if every purchase was bushels of wheat, and it was the 1800s, you would be right.

What does Econ 101 say about the power of brands, the power of monopolies and oligopolies to set whatever price they feel like?

You just ignoring that? Or maybe you weren't an Econ major?

All of these theories, all of these economic fixes, are all dependent on there actually being a free market. And there just isn't one.

 

[parocks]

Your too nice then.

You think we live in a free market.

You're delusional.

 

[parocks]

They're just going to raise prices.

All the competitors are facing the exact same labor situations.

There is no competition Chinese slave labor is not manning fast food joints in the US.

McDonalds charges whatever it feels like. It's an oligopoly. Do you even recognize that? Or were you not an Econ major?

Charity shmarity

Of course it hurts the company, now they will fire people yes, but they will have to make do with a smaller workforce. Say they need 5 people to effectively run the place, now they will have only 3. Automation is only a realistic option for some businesses and bigger ones at that. Even if they automate its still a big investment which will cost them in the short term and still might not be as effective as an actual human.

Cutting costs where? This will only reduce the quality of the good or services this company provides if it has to cut costs to keep up with a government regulation.

This stupid law hurts everyone. The Company, consumers and the employees.

Saying "Well it just hurts the company so its not that bad" is a ridiculous line of thinking.

Im registered on a few political forums. When I go to these forums I have to read through absolute statists, left wing, progressive trash. I look forward to coming to the Ron Paul forums hoping to see fellow libertarians and freedom lovers denouncing stupid government policies such as the Minimum wage. Yet I have to cringe when I read ignorant trifle such as parocks post which is not only excusing the existing minimum wage but calling for it to be constantly raised with inflation.

The best thing that could happen to the minimum wage is that it wont keep up with inflation to the point that its become so low its effect on the workforce will be minimal. The higher its raised the more people effective as it covers more levels of productivity in the work force. There was a huge period of time the minimum wage in this country wasnt raised (30 years I think) and it became so low most companies (Including ironically McDonalds) paid more than Minimum wage. Much more.

Also I havent even brought up the moral problems with the minimum wage (Forcing people to hire people at a government set price/wage, very contradictory to freedom and a belief in property rights)

Minimum wage is such an easy economic concept to grasp, and its negative consequences are recognized by most economists (mainstream and heterodox) so its baffles me that I read defense of it on these very forums.

 

[Keith and stuff]

All the competitors are facing the exact same labor situations.

Not at all. McDonald's competes with vending machines, grocery stores, farmer's markets, seed stores and so on. People want to eat but depending on how much food costs, they will get different amounts of it in different ways.

And remember, the government encouraging companies to increase prices is a really bad thing for people that live on saving for example. It lowers the quality of life for elderly people. Personally, I don't want to hurt people just because they are children or elderly or don't work. But increasing prices does just that.

 

[Grubb556]

People like to rail on the socialist Scandinavian countries, but they don't actually have a minimal wage.

 

[gwax23]

You think we live in a free market.

You're delusional.

What in heavens name are you talking about?

I dont think we live in a free market but that doesnt stop me for advocating a return to a free market economy.

Only one who is delusional is you.

They're just going to raise prices.

All the competitors are facing the exact same labor situations.

There is no competition Chinese slave labor is not manning fast food joints in the US.

McDonalds charges whatever it feels like. It's an oligopoly. Do you even recognize that? Or were you not an Econ major?

Theyll only raise prices if they can afford too. Some will cut costs and thus quality (including reducing workforce) some will do a combination of both, and who knows maybe some firms who run on tight margins will shut down completely.

Not all competitors where created equal. A big business with ties to government will not only be able to deal with new regulations imposed on businesses (such as minimum wage) they will actively encourage it to wipe out smaller competitors who cant deal with the regulatory burden.

After you done reading up on supply and demand I suggest another interesting concept for you to research on. Its called "Regulatory Capture"

What I can gather from your ever increasing ridiculous posts is that since the US does not currently have a perfect free market that we should give up on trying to promote free market policies? Or is it that since we dont have a free market a minimum wage doesnt have any effect?

Both are equally wrong. Minimum wage does have an effect even if we are living in a crony capitalist state. Again read up on supply and demand to get a better grasp of this.

 

[parocks]

A more charitable take on his posts would be that it doesn't hurt the company, which either hires fewer employees, automates more positions, or cuts costs elsewhere. But it does harm those who would have been profitable at that lower wage, since they are no longer employable.

Have you actually looked at the real world?

Are robots taking my orders at the drive-thru?

No.

Those are people. People probably on minimum wage.

And they've been working at McDonalds for years.

Or people like them.

The minimum wage was there when Ray Kroc opened the first McDonalds.

And year after year the minimum wage goes up, and yet McDonalds stays in business.

How can this be? Certainly by now, McDonalds should be full of robots. They aren't.

It's pretty amazing that you miss 1) cut hours and 2) raise prices when you're trying to determine what stores would do if the minimum wage goes up.

Actually, probably nothing. Or, whatever they ususally do when the minimum wage goes up. And the minimum wage always goes up, because there's inflation. And the idea is for the minimum wage to keep pace with inflation.

The people who work at McDonalds are benefit from the minimum wage going up. McDonalds has no robots, and is not about to replace their workers with robots. So, there will be minimum wage workers working there. And they all will get a few dollars more in their paychecks. Or, maybe they get the same amount, but work a couple hours less.

Don't forget, free market principles DO NOT APPLY to McDonalds. In a free market, a McChicken would cost exactly the amount is costs to make. If someone can make a McChicken for a penny less, everyone would go to that other place, because McDonalds is too expensive. That's how the free market works. They didn't have expensive Super Bowl ads to pay for in the "free market" days. In a free market, there is no "McChicken". There are only Chicken sandwiches. They're commodities, and people buy the cheapest one. Period. That is how the free market works. Today, McDonalds spends a ton of advertising to tell us that their food is different in some real way from BKs food. This does not happen in a free market.

 

[Southron]

40% of US workers make less than the 1968 minimum wage and that's just using official inflation statistics. It really hasn't kept pace with inflation.