Free Staters Not Welcome in New Hampshire

[invisible]

Now for a different perspective:

Sadly, freestaters themselves are the FSP's own worst enemy. Of the dozens and dozens I've met, most of them are truly awful people. Many are very stuck up, cliquish, and think they are better than other people. They constantly deride and make fun of the locals. For as much as they claim they don't want to be told how to live, they are very quick to pass judgement on others, and try to tell them how to live. For all the drama creation, backstabbing, two-faced crap, you'd think you were back in high school. Seriously. There are plenty of ripoff artists, who operate under the guise of "this is the free market at work". I've had MUCH better results doing business with the locals, rather than other freestaters. If you don't kiss up to the "right people", then you're not part of the clique and are out of the loop on anything fun or interesting going on.

If you don't have a lot of money to throw around, then you're SOL again. It's expected that you in one way or another give considerable amounts of your money to other freestaters who moved before you. If you can't afford to do that, then you are obviously doing something wrong. More so than the promotion / celebration of freedom, events seem more designed to get freestaters and potential movers to give their money to those that came before them. If you don't have money to throw around, your opportunities to participate in anything are extremely limited.

I even overheard a conversation once between two people who are "highly placed" in this clique. They were talking about how the FSP should be "more exclusive", and how they (personally, along with a few people they are close to) should be screening people considering moving, and deciding whether or not they are "worthy". One HUGE mistake that was made was the creation of a formal organization. Now people elected to this organization want to be paid for positions that they originally volunteered for. Put the two of these things together, and this is a train wreck waiting to happen.

Not even activism is safe from this. Even various forms of activism are seen as "exclusive", that only the "right people" get to participate in. I've been told more than once that my participation in various activist activities was neither necessary or desired ("we already have enough people", "we already have the people we want involved in the project", etc). I suppose that we must already be completely free, and there are already more than enough activists in the state.

So if you enjoy kissing the asses of "the right people", playing high school drama and popularity games, and are eager to conduct business with those who are equally eager to rip you off, then you'll probably fit right in and have a lot of fun. But if you're not into that, my advice is to just move here, and not even bother with the freestaters who are already here. Just move, and become one of the locals. Don't even bother to tell people you have any association with the FSP. The FSP organization will implode from drama and internal politics, that's just a matter of time. This democrat lady doesn't need any help with her efforts, many of the freestaters are already doing her work for her.

 

[muzzled dogg]

Now for a different perspective:

Sadly, freestaters themselves are the FSP's own worst enemy. Of the dozens and dozens I've met, most of them are truly awful people. Many are very stuck up, cliquish, and think they are better than other people. They constantly deride and make fun of the locals. For as much as they claim they don't want to be told how to live, they are very quick to pass judgement on others, and try to tell them how to live. For all the drama creation, backstabbing, two-faced crap, you'd think you were back in high school. Seriously. There are plenty of ripoff artists, who operate under the guise of "this is the free market at work". I've had MUCH better results doing business with the locals, rather than other freestaters. If you don't kiss up to the "right people", then you're not part of the clique and are out of the loop on anything fun or interesting going on.

If you don't have a lot of money to throw around, then you're SOL again. It's expected that you in one way or another give considerable amounts of your money to other freestaters who moved before you. If you can't afford to do that, then you are obviously doing something wrong. More so than the promotion / celebration of freedom, events seem more designed to get freestaters and potential movers to give their money to those that came before them. If you don't have money to throw around, your opportunities to participate in anything are extremely limited.

I even overheard a conversation once between two people who are "highly placed" in this clique. They were talking about how the FSP should be "more exclusive", and how they (personally, along with a few people they are close to) should be screening people considering moving, and deciding whether or not they are "worthy". One HUGE mistake that was made was the creation of a formal organization. Now people elected to this organization want to be paid for positions that they originally volunteered for. Put the two of these things together, and this is a train wreck waiting to happen.

Not even activism is safe from this. Even various forms of activism are seen as "exclusive", that only the "right people" get to participate in. I've been told more than once that my participation in various activist activities was neither necessary or desired ("we already have enough people", "we already have the people we want involved in the project", etc). I suppose that we must already be completely free, and there are already more than enough activists in the state.

So if you enjoy kissing the asses of "the right people", playing high school drama and popularity games, and are eager to conduct business with those who are equally eager to rip you off, then you'll probably fit right in and have a lot of fun. But if you're not into that, my advice is to just move here, and not even bother with the freestaters who are already here. Just move, and become one of the locals. Don't even bother to tell people you have any association with the FSP. The FSP organization will implode from drama and internal politics, that's just a matter of time. This democrat lady doesn't need any help with her efforts, many of the freestaters are already doing her work for her.

cool bro i moved up a year ago and have been active promoting and attending every liberty event since then and have no idea what you are talking about.

have we met before? have you ever come out to any liberty events?

 

[invisible]

cool bro i moved up a year ago and have been active promoting and attending every liberty event since then and have no idea what you are talking about.

have we met before? have you ever come out to any liberty events?

Yes, three times.
Depends on what you call a "liberty event". I don't go to ones you have to pay for. For one, I don't have money for that. For another, I have a lot more fun hanging out with the locals, than I do trying to deal with the above mentioned attitudes.

edit: I live here too (moved about the same time you did), so I DO know what I'm talking about

 

[cbrons]

Tom Woods writes:


The great Free State Project (FSP) involves having pro-freedom individuals and families move to the Granite State in order to create an environment for the realization of "liberty in our lifetime," as the FSP puts it. Democratic State Rep. Cynthia Chase calls them "the single biggest threat the state is facing today."Whatever can be done about these people who favor nonviolence in interpersonal relations?

Her answer: "There is, legally, nothing we can do to prevent them from moving here to take over the state, which is their openly stated goal. In this country you can move anywhere you choose and they have that same right. What we can do is to make the environment here so unwelcoming that some will choose not to come, and some may actually leave. One way is to pass measures that will restrict the 'freedoms' that they think they will find here.... Cheshire County is a welcoming community but not to those whose stated goal is to move in enough ideologues to steal our state, and our way of life."

Let's translate this from Politico into English: "Unfortunately, people have the right to move anywhere they like in this country. There's nothing we can do about that. But if we make New Hampshire a less desirable place to live, with fewer freedoms, maybe people seeking freedom will be less likely to settle here. We have a way of life here, you see. Our way of life consists of sticking a gun in people's ribs and taking their things, in order that those things may be distributed to powerful constituencies from whom we public servants expect to win votes. This is one of our sacred traditions. If you are philosophically opposed to the use of violence in the service of political ends, you are an ideologue. Ideologues are not welcome here. We are welcoming to everyone who delights in having a gun shoved in his ribs."

The above originally appeared in Tom's free monthly email newsletter. You can sign up here.​

http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2012/12/free-staters-not-welcome-in-new.html

More at
http://www.dailypaul.com/267569/free-state-project-is-winning

I don't want to annoy good people at the FSP but why in the world New Hampshire or anywhere on the East Coast for that matter? That entire region is a denizen of drone-ery, stupidity, and left-wing fascism. Because leftists will destroy one state and move to another (ask Oregon which was destroyed by Cali leftists), you just know that most of them migrated away from other surrounding states like termites in search of their next bark feast.

 

[Keith and stuff]

cool bro i moved up a year ago and have been active promoting and attending every liberty event since then and have no idea what you are talking about.

have we met before? have you ever come out to any liberty events?

I also have no idea what he is talking about. I do admit that some of us know substantially more about effective NH politics than almost all of the nonFSPers. That is how we have been so successful in such a short period of time. For every 10 FSPers in NH, we have won 1 election. So maybe I come off as click like when there is a group of people in a room and I stay in one area talking about state politics. Otherwise, I am confused by his post.

Invisible, if you PM me, I'll be glad to talk to you on the phone. Feel free to call me from a fake number and not use your real name if you want.

 

[itshappening]

I don't want to annoy good people at the FSP but why in the world New Hampshire or anywhere on the East Coast for that matter? That entire region is a denizen of drone-ery, stupidity, and left-wing fascism. Because leftists will destroy one state and move to another (ask Oregon which was destroyed by Cali leftists), you just know that most of them migrated away from other surrounding states like termites in search of their next bark feast.

Indeed, they should have gone to Wyoming. NH is a Democrat stronghold.

 

[mac_hine]

 

[AGRP]

Indeed, they should have gone to Wyoming. NH is a Democrat stronghold.

Theres nothing wrong with having multiple states. I wouldnt object to having 4 to cover the north, south, east, and west.

 

[Keith and stuff]

Will her comments be picked up by the major NH newspapers? National newspapers? Doubt it. Just imagine if she singled out another minority group. "_________ are unwelcome here! We need to create laws that make them unwelcome or leave!"

Also, this blog covered it http://nalert.blogspot.com/2012/12/free-staters-are-single-biggest-threat.html and the main conservative blog in NH covered it today.

The Free State Project gonna get your momma!
http://granitegrok.com/blog/2012/12/the-free-state-project-gonna-get-your-momma

There have been around 700 known shares of this photo on Facebook

 

[itshappening]

Why didn't they go to Wy and take over the GOP there. Wy. is a GOP stronghold. No matter what you do in NH you cannot get them to vote for a hardcore conservative that will actually do anything. The senators and reps are all lousy.

You can take over the statehouse for a few years, big deal. Sending a liberty senator to DC in a GOP stronghold is much more worthwhile to the movement i.e see Rand Paul in Kentucky and Thomas Massie.

Sending a pair of determined Wyoming liberty senators to Washington DC would have a massive impact on national politics and it's totally disproportionate because of Wyoming's size. There is no hope in hell that N.H will send two decent GOP senators for example Ayotte already hangs around with McCain and is basically a waste of time.

 

[Keith and stuff]

Thanks for posting. It was great to see the Judge share the video on his Facebook page. He is a nice man and has spoken at the Liberty Forum in the past. Like how Tom Woods is speaking this year. If you haven't liked the Judge on Facebook yet, there is still time. https://www.facebook.com/JudgeNapolitano

This video has already been shared 400 times on Facebook. Combine that withe the articles, blog posts and picture... The story will likely be shared over 1500 times on Facebook. Thank you Ms. Chase for the free promotion of the FSP.

Edit: I take that back. It is over 2000 shares on Facebook and still growing.

 

[itshappening]

The best thing FREE staters can possibly do is help Rand Paul win the state in 2016 and help get behind liberty presidential candidates in the future since NH is the first primary in the nation and has a disproportionate impact on the process. That's the only benefit I can see and even then they dont have much clout i.e McCain and Romney won big but hopefully their clout will increase.

 

[mport1]

Excellent endorsement of the Free State Project! That statist wouldn't be saying anything if the FSP wasn't a threat to their big government ways.

And that is the success with just 5% of movers! Imagine what would happen if 20 times as many liberty lovers moved. Their success would be more than 20 fold what it is now.

 

[itshappening]

Excellent endorsement of the Free State Project! That statist wouldn't be saying anything if the FSP wasn't a threat to their big government ways.

And that is the success with just 5% of movers! Imagine what would happen if 20 times as many liberty lovers moved. Their success would be more than 20 fold what it is now.

The people from MA and other areas in the North east totally cancel out anything FSP can bring in. NH is NOT liberty friendly, look at the senators and reps. it's a lost cause. The only benefit is NH's disproportionate impact on the presidential nominating process but even then they picked two big fat losers in the GOP primary: McCain and Romney. Establishment/centrist GOP is strong there. They like their GOP people to be 'moderate' i.e big spenders.

 

[mport1]

The people from MA and other areas in the North east totally cancel out anything FSP can bring in. NH is NOT liberty friendly, look at the senators and reps. it's a lost cause. The only benefit is NH's disproportionate impact on the presidential nominating process but even then they picked two big fat losers in the GOP primary: McCain and Romney. Establishment/centrist GOP is strong there. They like their GOP people to be 'moderate' i.e big spenders.

Almost none of those statists are activists though. Libertarians will always be outnumbered everywhere. The point is to get a small number of very active libertarians concentrated in one area. From what I've seen NH, is one of the best states for doing this.

 

[itshappening]

Activists don't matter as much when it gets to the general election. It's better to take over a GOP stronghold. Look at Lamontage, he managed to win the nomination with the support of good conservatives to get the GOP gubernatorial nomination but he cannot win the general election because they vote for statist pigs.

Best to take over a reliable GOP state like Wyoming. See Rand Paul in Kentucky or Thomas Massie. In Massie's district you could put a dog on the ballot in a GOP rosette and it will win so winning the GOP primary which is much easier to do for a constitutional conservative is tantamount to winning the election and hence a win for the movement at a very small cost.

Getting Mike Lee nominated at the Utah convention is basically getting a US Senator for a few hundred thousand dollars. These are huge wins at small costs. Running a hardcore real conservative in NH is not going to ever work because of the leftist MA/Democrat and North east mentality that is prevalent there. Also the Metro area media market is too expensive because I think it includes Boston. It's just not good value and the only hope is their influence is felt in presidential primaries but even then I suspect they will get drowned out by the kinds of statists who see McCain and Romney as good picks.

 

[Keith and stuff]

Indeed, they should have gone to Wyoming. NH is a Democrat stronghold.

NH is certainly not a Democratic stronghold. That is a ignorant statement. In 2010, 3/4 of the state house and senate candidates elected were Republican. NH is a traditionally fiscially conservative and socially liberal state. It had leaned GOP for over 100 years but since 2000 has been a swing state. When it has selected as the FSP state, we knew it was a swing state.

As for WY. Some people were annoyed the NH won the vote so they copied the FSP idea in WY. There is maybe 1 politically active mover in WY because of that and by politically active, I mean he voted for Ron Paul at his county convention. That is it. Clearly, all of the evidence shows that WY would have been a bad choice.

As for why NH won the vote... NH was selected because the people of NH worked harder to recruit us, the governor of NH joined the project, NH was the freest state, had the 2nd best job prospects, the 3rd best weather and the easiest system of government to get involved with of the 10 states looked at, among other reasons. There was a vote and NH won.

 

[itshappening]

State houses don't matter Keith. NH swings around too much. They took it over but lost it again 2 years later, if they held it for a decade i'd be impressed but they didn't and it's not a GOP stronghold like Wyoming. They should have gone there and taken over the GOP because people who live there and who dont pay attention to politics vote reliably GOP. people who vote in NH will vote reliable Democrats or big government conservatives and that's evident with them rejecting Lamontage, Ayotte as senator, McCain and Romney in the presidential primary, the list goes on and on.

 

[Adrock]

NH has a PVI of D+2. While it did vote statewide for Obama, they also passed some pretty liberty friendly state initiatives too. It is hardly a Liberal Democrat Stronghold. It's combination of fiscal conservatism and liberal social leanings would make it one of the best incubator environments for growing liberty in my opinion. I think it is ultimately about concentrating liberty folks in one place in order to effect the rest of the population in the city and state as a whole toward liberty.

 

[itshappening]

Keith, i'll give you an example. We want to build careers and have lasting effects. Massie for example is in a reliable GOP district. What's the point in working hard and donating money to a Massie equivalent in NH if he just gets in for 2 years and then tossed out when the State 'swings'? it would be an utter waste of time and resources. Also the media market is expensive there because it includes the Boston metro area so millions are needed for federal races. Thats why I advocate taking over GOP strongholds...

NH has a role to play in presidential primary politics only and i hope FSP can help there but i'm not encouraged by them picking the likes of McCain and Romneya and fear you will get drowned out on polling day by the voters who only pay slight attention selecting another statist loser.