Fox News Poll: Rand at 3%

There is some truth in what you say, but I think taking on Planned Parenthood strongly could help. Rand stood up to Obamatrade, and anti gun parts of the Patriot Act. He needs to start talking about this kind of stuff. Carson shot up in the polls and I don't recall him saying much hawkish in the debate.

Bottom line, talking about the 4th amendment isn't working for Rand. No, he shouldn't change his position, it just shouldn't be his main stump speech line anymore.

If abortion is the most important issue then there isn't any shortage of candidates that will go as extreme as they can on the issue, Huckabee literally wants to use the military.

Rand's only chance was to be a warrior against the establishment, he should of been blasting Neocons and GOP leadership the entire time instead of trying to buddy up to them. Rand's only chance was to double down as a libertarian, perception is reality and it didn''t matter how much pandering Rand did the establishment was never going to trust or support Rons son. All that matters is exciting the base, non-base voters get excited by excited base voters.
 
If abortion is the most important issue then there isn't any shortage of candidates that will go as extreme as they can on the issue, Huckabee literally wants to use the military.

Rand's only chance was to be a warrior against the establishment, he should of been blasting Neocons and GOP leadership the entire time instead of trying to buddy up to them. Rand's only chance was to double down as a libertarian, perception is reality and it didn''t matter how much pandering Rand did the establishment was never going to trust or support Rons son. All that matters is exciting the base, non-base voters get excited by excited base voters.
Nope. The people who don't think Rand is libertarian enough won't support him no matter what he says, they consider him a sellout. They seem to prefer true libertarians like Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump.:rolleyes:
 
Problem is that the only thing that fires up today's GOP base is hating some "other", Muslims and Mexicans being the popular choices, and sometimes blacks or Russians or Chinese or Norks.

The GOP that wanted low taxes and personal liberty is dead as a doornail. Anyone else been around the movement long enough to remember when they called us "one percenters"? It appears that we haven't really made too many converts in the final tally.

As I've said for years, we have to change the default framework and the resulting emotions of the voters, and that can't be done with reason alone. Ron Paul kept losing the war issue in the past primaries not because he was wrong about blowback (he wasn't), but because most people are centrally oriented (or hypnotized) around the fear mindset that "we have to defend ourselves against the threat from the terrorists/radicals," to which any other consideration is viewed as minor or irrelevant.

No amount of reason was ever going to prevail unless Paul attacked that fear framework, such as through waking people up about false flags/covert ops, to show the "threat" was basically manufactured, but Ron (and Rand) declined to go there. Rand's use of hawkish rhetoric and gestures gained him an opening to better dialogue with hypnotized voters, but he hasn't used it to wake them up. What happens when you talk to people who are asleep? They tend to stay asleep.

Notice by contrast, how fast Trump (perhaps accidently) created a new default framework for addressing illegal immigration. He didn't take time quietly "making a case," he directly attacked the controlling elite mindset that there was no problem, other than we were taking too long to give them amnesty. This involved him bluntly attacking the MSM and establishment for not raising the issue, and this is what energized supporters to get behind him. Until liberty candidates address changing the demagogic framework that is controlling policy debates head on, our articulate words will continue to fall on effectively deaf ears.
 
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You think somebody who has never held any political office running for potus is a serious candidate? Really? Especially a gaffe factory like Carson.

He has a solid base of support that isn't very likely to go away and that translates to grassroots success. I think he is serious and it is a mistake to laugh him off.

Many people here were laughing off Santorum while he was quietly working the counties of Iowa.
 
Wow, I just have a hard time believing less than 1 in 30 people would vote for Rand.
 
All Rand had to do was follow the advice of his advisers and play it safe in the debate. At the very least if he had done that he wouldn't be seen as unlikable like he is now. If he has the same type of debate performance at the CNN debate, he's finished.
 
Rand needs to really stand out in the next debate. That means trying something new, people already know his taglines about the entire bill of rights and all that. He needs to do something that fires up the GOP base.

I'm not sure whatever happened to "the debt, the debt, the debt." I'm not sure whatever happened to that. It's what worked for him when he ran for the U.S Senate in 2010. This whole "I'm a different kind of Republican" thing just isn't working. Most GOP voters agree with the policies that the Republican Party promotes and don't want a different kind of Republican.
 
Problem is that the only thing that fires up today's GOP base is hating some "other", Muslims and Mexicans being the popular choices, and sometimes blacks or Russians or Chinese or Norks.

The GOP that wanted low taxes and personal liberty is dead as a doornail. Anyone else been around the movement long enough to remember when they called us "one percenters"? It appears that we haven't really made too many converts in the final tally.
That's true. Rand really needs to get those 28 pages out there. We'd all find out that the rest of the GOP is made up of people close to terrorist sponsors like the Bush family and redirect some of that hatred onto them (or atleast complicate the picture): http://www.businessinsider.com/rand-paul-28-pages-of-secret-911-files-2015-6?op=1
 
Rand may have to spend some money on national ads. He cannot afford to miss the next debate.

I'm not really sure that it even matters at this point. Rand might actually be better off in the second tier debate as he would get a lot more time to speak.
 
Fox rigged the poll as a sign of faith in Trump. They probably promised Trump they would make sure Rand was not in the debate in exchange for him going on the network.
 
FoxNews is another entity we should ignore. The media is not on the side of liberty.
 
Fox rigged the poll as a sign of faith in Trump. They probably promised Trump they would make sure Rand was not in the debate in exchange for him going on the network.

Fox despises Trump. Ailes backed down when Trump called their bluff.
 
Fox despises Trump. Ailes backed down when Trump called their bluff.

Fox despises Trump, and Trump despises Rand, as he is the one contender who can legitimately burst his "anti-establishment" posturing. Rand does need to knock off the direct attacks, or at least broaden them into a triangulated response to both Trump and his critics. Fox also despises Rand, so if he includes them in his joint attack, all the better.
 
He has a solid base of support that isn't very likely to go away and that translates to grassroots success. I think he is serious and it is a mistake to laugh him off.

Many people here were laughing off Santorum while he was quietly working the counties of Iowa.

Carson is a complete joke. He will have no success at all. He will say something stupid, get called out for it and all his "support" will vote for Jeb like they are told to. He is the quintessential token negro this time around in place of Herman Cain.

Santorum was a joke too. He never had a chance in a million years of being potus. He had zero popularity beyond the american taliban "christians" who voted for him in the midwest.
 
Fox despises Trump, and Trump despises Rand, as he is the one contender who can legitimately burst his "anti-establishment" posturing. Rand does need to knock off the direct attacks, or at least broaden them into a triangulated response to both Trump and his critics. Fox also despises Rand, so if he includes them in his joint attack, all the better.

Trump doesn't despise Rand. He wasn't really attacking Rand at all until Rand went after him.
 
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