Founded on Christian principles? Griffon believes otherwise.

[Truth Warrior]

"The Empire ( Roman ) Strikes Back"

Damn, maybe the US WAS founded on "Christian" principles after all.

Next time try Jesus principles.

 

[BeFranklin]

My cause?
Whats your claim to fame, besides being a resident NEOCON?
Your words reek of hatred. Congrats. You just re-enforced the reason why i don't go to church. I don't like getting fleas.

More insults. I've waited months of seeing this on these threads before I decided to stop turning the other cheek and call hypocricy and a condescending attitude what it is. The same things occured in Russia and China before they became atheist states, and the same thing occured in Nazi Germany before they killed the Jews. You have to start slandering people with insults before you can justify the killings.

The bible says a man is hated by the person who lies to him. When I see willful lying on these threads followed by insults when factual documentation is presented that can't be explained away, I don't see just ignorance. I see purposful hate.

In regards to Jefferson "really being a deist", so the "Declaration of Independence really doesn't mean what it says", here is another quote:

"My opinion on the right of expatriation has been so long ago as the year 1776 consigned to record in the act of the Virginia code, drawn by myself, recognizing the right expressly and prescribing the mode of exercising it. The evidence of this natural right, like that of our right to life, liberty, the use of our faculties, the pursuit of happiness, is not left to the feeble and sophistical investigations of reason, but is impressed on the sense of every man. We do not claim these under the charters of kings or legislators, but under the King of Kings. If He has made it a law in the nature of man to pursue his own happiness, he has left him free in the choice of place as well as mode, and we may safely call on the whole body of English jurists to produce the map on which nature has traced for each individual the geographical line which she forbids him to cross in pursuit of happiness." --Thomas Jefferson to John Manners, 1817.

King of kings, that is straight from the bible. Jefferson was no deist. Now follow it with another round of insults because those who know the truth must be killed.

 

[Chester Copperpot]

To say we were founded on Christian principles shows a complete lack of knowledge of most of the founders' thoughts on Christianity. Sure, some of them were Christian, but most were just deists. I think Franklin might have even been atheist though I'm not sure.

Franklin was no atheist. He believed in God.

 

[BeFranklin]

...

Ok, apology accepted, but it wasn't needed. I shouldn't have lost my temper, and have probably co-mingled your posts in memory with other posters less kind and more prone to insults over the months, so I also apologize.

...
If you think my arguments rest on what "everyone believes", you've misinterpeted me there too. If you follow my threads regularly, you know that I rather regularly rail against the MSM and other coporate/government institutions. If you refer to my varioius references to established facts that historians tend to agree on, then you're right.

As to NWO, I also oppose their attempts to eliminate spirituality. This is an attempt to institutionalize the "mechanical" worldview (which essentially views organisms as machines rather than individual humans).

The way I am looking at it is like the Roman Empire, they tried to absorb everyones religions into one, which, since it was all for political purposes, and truth didn't matter, resulted in emperor worship.

I'm tired of many posters characterizing Christian patriots who like the founders' Christian thoughts as right wing fasists. This is the left-right wing dichotomy of the modern day, and it isn't true. Christian patriotism in the Revolutionary day would be called liberal, not conservative. It certainly resembles nothing like divine rights of kings or priest worship. All men are created equal, and endowed by their Creator with rights. That is liberal.

So were the thoughts about religious liberty, such as expressed by Roger Williams, Thomas Jefferson, or Benjamin Franklin, or from the church who fought the first battle of the Revolutionary war i.e. the shot heard round the world, whose slogan was "No King but King Jesus" and no monarch. I believe those things, and just like any traditional protestant, I don't believe my children would be born saved or are saved as infants, but are just as my neighbor may be. In the pursuit of truth, the exchange of ideas is a good thing, and God leds people to find it and Him. It is imposible to separate the founders from what they believed, or hope to effectively tar it - because it was a good thing.

 

[BeFranklin]

...

 

[Truth Warrior]

It's really no wonder that almost any institutionalized HUMAN anything usually just tends to merely give me the creeps.

"By their fruits, ye shall know them."

 

[heavenlyboy34]

It's really no wonder that almost any institutionalized HUMAN anything usually just tends to merely give me the creeps.

"By their fruits, ye shall know them."

+1

 

[JK/SEA]

More insults. I've waited months of seeing this on these threads before I decided to stop turning the other cheek and call hypocricy and a condescending attitude what it is.

irononically, its christians who have more blood on their hands than any one cult.

how's that for historical facts?....

if i wanted to join a 'club' of murderers and drug dealers, i'd join the hell's angels.

 

[Republicae]

Ok, so you maintian that those things are bad? No wonder the USA has gone to hell in a handbasket. No moral compass. You can watch the further demise of our country then. Yes, I suppose you do have the freedom to destroy it. TONES

Ethics and morals are not exclusive to the christian religion, to imply such is a misapplication of the principles that preceded christianity for several thousands of years. A moral compass doesn't necessarily come in the form of a cross, in fact, more times than not, I have found some of the most immoral and hateful people to be wrapped up in cloak of christianity.

In terms of law, take common law, that was primarily of Saxon origin and preceded the advent of christianity to the British Isles by several hundred years.

 

[Conservative Christian]

Benjamin Franklin was no atheist. He may not have been a Christian, but he was most certainly a THEIST:

"I've lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing Proofs I see of this Truth — That God governs in the Affairs of Men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his Notice, is it probable that an Empire can rise without his Aid? We have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings, that except the Lord build the House they labor in vain who build it. I firmly believe this, — and I also believe that without his concurring Aid, we shall succeed in this political Building no better than the Builders of Babel: We shall be divided by our little partial local interests; our Projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall become a Reproach and Bye word down to future Ages."

Benjamin Franklin
Speech to the Constitutional Convention (06-28-1787). Manuscript notes by Franklin are preserved in the Library of Congress.


.

 

[hope7134]

Not all people who believe in God are christians. Christians are followers of Christ. But all people who profess some type of religion believe in some type of God. Ben Franklin believed in God, but he never said he believed in Christ. The bible says Demons believe and tremble. Does that make them Christians. So my fellow christians don't believe because the founding fathers believed in God they were Christians. Even witches believe in a God.

To answer the question about the declaration of Independence and the Constitution, they are moral documents, not christian documents. No where in these documents do you find christians have any other rights than any other religion. These documents are a moral code. If they were Christian documents, then they would require no wars, no abortions, no homosexual marriages, church required attendance, forgiveness, etc...! Sehe the problem here my fellow christians? You can't regulate christianity, as it is an aspect of the heart, it's about love not about regulations. So it is impossible for these documents to be christian documents. The only thing the christians have a right too with these documents, is the same rights of all other religious citizens. We have the right to freely worship or not.