For those of us on "The Right" the time has come for clear thinking.

[phill4paul]

The only clear thinking is separation. Where, when and in which states? Balkanization. I think Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia and Florida would be a good take over/hold. Farm land, oil production, military base holdings. I dunno.

 

[Sonny Tufts]

"Union" Forts? I don't recall the Confederate States of America signing any diplomacy agreements with the United States that would provide the Union with that land title.

That's because it was already owned by the United States. South Carolina ceded Fort Sumter to the federal government in 1836.
https://books.google.com/books?id=f...h Carolina to the site of Fort Sumter&f=false

 

[Pauls' Revere]

Hold on. Are you saying there is no secret billionaire?

He died.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/12/business/sheldon-adelson-death/index.html

 

[69360]

The only clear thinking is separation. Where, when and in which states? Balkanization. I think Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia and Florida would be a good take over/hold. Farm land, oil production, military base holdings. I dunno.

Northern Virginia is solidly democratic. GA just went democratic. South Florida is democratic. Those are just some examples of why the US couldn't Balkanize.

 

[acptulsa]

The only clear thinking is separation. Where, when and in which states? Balkanization. I think Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia and Florida would be a good take over/hold. Farm land, oil production, military base holdings. I dunno.

Any secession plan that doesn't include flyover country, the Great Plains, the Breadbasket of the World, is a bad plan.

1. Food is power, and we feed the world.

2. If we don't secede with you, we'll secede on our own. We will tell Washington, D.C. to go to hell sooner or later.

Northern Virginia is solidly democratic. GA just went democratic. South Florida is democratic. Those are just some examples of why the US couldn't Balkanize.

Uh huh. Look between the Mississippi and the Cascades, and recalculate.

 

[Suzanimal]

I hear ya. I was wondering where you were going with that at first. There is some "pretense" though the pretense makes no sense. I listened the other day to CBS news "debunking" Q-Anon by saying there is no pedophile conspiracy in high levels of government. Hello? Dear memory hole? Jeffery Epstein was a real pedophile with a real island with real underage sex slaves on it visited by real powerful people. All of that is just reported in the open. But then Q-Anon went crazy train with trying to convince everyone that Jeffery Epstein's pal, Donald Trump, who bought the Miss Teen USA pageant and then bragged about being able to walk in on the minor girls getting dressed, was somehow the "savior" of sex slaves. Ummmm...that made no freaking sense!

I still listen to conspiracy theorists like James Corbett who don't carry Trump water. I did hold out faint hope that Trump would pardon Assange and Snowden. But.....nope. Kwame Kilpatrick, corrupt liberal disgraced former mayor of Detroit, got a pardon though.

So....nobody is going to save us. Got it. Agorism for the win! We all need to as individuals learn to live as best we can outside of the system and coordinate with others who share that belief system.

This^^^ x1000

 

[devil21]

That's because it was already owned by the United States. South Carolina ceded Fort Sumter to the federal government in 1836.
https://books.google.com/books?id=f...h Carolina to the site of Fort Sumter&f=false

That could be accurate, however quoting a book printed in 1916 by the United States War Department, purporting to detail official acts of a southern state prior to the Civil War isn't very convincing. The Reconstruction period was used to extensively rewrite history in favor of the "victors", as is always done in the period following a war.

 

[TheTexan]

That's because it was already owned by the United States. South Carolina ceded Fort Sumter to the federal government in 1836.
https://books.google.com/books?id=f...h Carolina to the site of Fort Sumter&f=false

And who owns the "federal government"? The people. The land in SC ceded back to the people when SC seceded.

Thought experiment: if every state simultaneously secedes from the US, how much property does the "federal government" own? The answer is zero, because the federal government doesn't own anything. Only people can own property.

When SC seceded, that included the forts. The "federal government" no longer had any legitimate claim to it.

If the other states felt financially wronged by this, they could sue SC for the balance of payment they believe they are owed.

What they didn't have the right to do, was squat on property that they no longer held any legitimate title to.

 

[TheTexan]

That's because it was already owned by the United States. South Carolina ceded Fort Sumter to the federal government in 1836.
https://books.google.com/books?id=f...h Carolina to the site of Fort Sumter&f=false

Your book says that Fort Sumter was ceded in 1836 with the below condition:

"Provided, that all processes civil and criminal issued under the authority of this State, or any officer thereof, shall and may be served and executed upon any of the land so ceded, or structures to be erected upon the same, and any person there being who may be implicated in law"

The South effectively gave them an eviction notice in 1861 and they had every right to do so based on this language alone.

 

[A Son of Liberty]

Any secession plan that doesn't include flyover country, the Great Plains, the Breadbasket of the World, is a bad plan.

1. Food is power, and we feed the world.

2. If we don't secede with you, we'll secede on our own. We will tell Washington, D.C. to go to hell sooner or later.



Uh huh. Look between the Mississippi and the Cascades, and recalculate.

I'm in Southwest PA and I'd love to stay here, but if I can't, WV is very nearby and would probably be a secessionist state.

 

[TheTexan]

The South seceded and attacked Union Forts to protect slavery but you are correct that the North didn't fight back to end slavery. As for the president that destroyed the idea of peaceful secession, why that would be Lincoln's fellow Southerner and slave holder Andrew Jackson. He threatened to hang secessionists as traitors including his own vice president John C. Calhoun. Of course the only state serious about secession then was South Carolina. And the "nullification crisis" ended without bloodshed. Nullification >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> secession. State don't like a federal mandate? Don't enforce it. People are angry at the liberal cities and states creating "sanctuary cities." Well conservative cities and states could do the same thing for other issues like protecting the 2nd amendment. What would happen in state governments quit enforcing all federal gun laws at any level? Say if the feds weren't allowed to temporarily house federal criminal defendants and/or convicts in state facilities? States should stop cooperating with federal drug enforcement as well.

Nullification is all good and dandy - to the extent that the Federal government allows it; you are still their slave.

Lasting freedom can only be found when its recognized that people have the natural right to peacefully separate.

Rights can only be attained through sovereignty. Any "rights" you have otherwise, are mere allowances granted by your masters.

 

[GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged]

It doesn't actually matter. [1]

But the belief that it matters arises from the (false) hope that someone is going to save us, and that we just have to elect them first.

The sooner we disabuse ourselves of that pernicious and debilitating notion, the better. To paraphrase Michael Malice: "I hope [people] are starting to see that the [Bill of Rights and elections] are red herrings of little use. [Things like t]echnology and gun proliferation are the answer, not the Constitution."



[1] However, the perception that the election was "stolen" (or was otherwise invalid) might be of some use, in so far as that perception serves to undermine trust in elections as a means of achieving significant and substantive change. But this is the case regardless of whether any perception of electoral invalidity is "true" or not. (And I put "true" in quotation marks here because one's determination of "truth" in such matters is contingent upon the narrative frame one adopts.)

I appreciate your well thought out response, the reasonse. If the Election was fair and square then maybe my CT meter needs calibrating. I agree that the response needs to be different than status quo. If the radical left believes the hogwash they are swallowing, how does anyone know if what they believe is reality? Trump was not the Savior or the enemy as much as Competition for the Lying Left and Right. If nothing else The Great Donald exposed the media.

 

[TheTexan]

While I appreciate your well thought out response, the reason I asked was because part of the OP was discussing not falling for Conspiracy Theories. If the Election was fair and square then maybe my CT meter needs calibrating. I agree that the response needs to be different than status quo. If the radical left believes the hogwash they are swallowing, how does anyone know if what they believe is reality? The enemy was not the enemy as much as Competition for the Lying Left. If nothing else The Great Donald exposed the media.

Unfortunately the only way to be sure about anything these days is to dig into the primary sources, and make up your own decision. Most people don't have time for that. In the case of the election irregularities, there are 100's of witness testimonies, official responses, court cases, that you would need to go through to have an informed opinion of what happened in each state.

Ain't nobody got time for that.

Which is why the left was able to get away with their lies. What's the point in spending literal days of research to fact check something that 99.9% of the media tells you is some baseless conspiracy theory?

 

[GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged]

Unfortunately the only way to be sure about anything these days is to dig into the primary sources, and make up your own decision. Most people don't have time for that. In the case of the election irregularities, there are 100's of witness testimonies, official responses, court cases, that you would need to go through to have an informed opinion of what happened in each state.

Ain't nobody got time for that.

Which is why the left was able to get away with their lies. What's the point in spending literal days of research to fact check something that 99.9% of the media tells you is some baseless conspiracy theory?

When the media is trying that hard to push a narrative it must be wrong = Stupid Conspiracy Theorist. Tower 7 falling into its own footprint seems like a demolition. George W Bush having a demolition team plant explosives in the Towers seems kinda Conspiracy Theorist Nonsense.

 

[TheTexan]

When the media is trying that hard to push a narrative it must be wrong = Stupid Conspiracy Theorist.

That's pretty much what pushed me to pay attention to something I ordinarily wouldn't care about. The fact that media was pushing the narrative so hard from the very beginning. It was clear they didn't spend even one nanosecond to even consider the claims.

 

[GlennwaldSnowdenAssanged]

That's pretty much what pushed me to pay attention to something I ordinarily wouldn't care about. The fact that media was pushing the narrative so hard from the very beginning. It was clear they didn't spend even one nanosecond to even consider the claims.

My wish is they will stop trying so hard to look out for my safety.

 

[Mike4Freedom]

I'm in Southwest PA and I'd love to stay here, but if I can't, WV is very nearby and would probably be a secessionist state.

A few acres of land in WV is still cheap. I was thinking of buying some in the woods as a plan B just in case. Perhaps putting a small trailer there as well with solar panels. I would need an outhouse though.

 

[Working Poor]

Elections don't matter that is for sure. I hope that people who support Trump will realize that he has turned his supporters into criminals. That is something they need to be concerned about.

 

[jmdrake]

Nullification is all good and dandy - to the extent that the Federal government allows it; you are still their slave.

Lasting freedom can only be found when its recognized that people have the natural right to peacefully separate.

Rights can only be attained through sovereignty. Any "rights" you have otherwise, are mere allowances granted by your masters.

When you "peacefully separate" into another government you are a slave to that new government. The southern states enslaved poor whites too by implementing a draft from which slave owners were exempt. The only people who were ever free were the pre colonial native Americans.

 

[belian78]

Nullification is all good and dandy - to the extent that the Federal government allows it; you are still their slave.

Lasting freedom can only be found when its recognized that people have the natural right to peacefully separate.

Rights can only be attained through sovereignty. Any "rights" you have otherwise, are mere allowances granted by your masters.

Woah man, I'm not sure I'm ready for this account to start making real and contributing posts! 0.0 LOL