For those of us on "The Right" the time has come for clear thinking.

[acptulsa]

My point is, had Hillary been president and told people they had to stay home for Easter Sunday?? Not only every team red member in the country but also more than half the team blue members would have told her to shove it up her ass. The reason most people that consider themselves left leaning never took even a second to look into the actual science behind all this is that the argument got boiled down to "Trump says CV not real, Trump killing people, Trump bad". That's what his entire presidency got boiled down to. 'Anything Trump supported or stood for or spoke out for was EVIL' And the kicker? His grand finale was utterly destroying the republican party and white america for decades to come. NONE of that happens they way it did if Hillary is president.

The greatest strength of Republicans is they're team players. And the fact that they're such good team players is also what makes them as useless as teats on a boar hog.

 

[Cleaner44]

I now dismiss, out of hand, anybody who rejects force and violence as means to defend or further our goals with no qualifications.

Anybody in these current times, who will not even accept the notion as a last resort, is full of $#@!, AFAIC.

I am hesitant to say much online these days. Anything can and will be used to declare those that don't bend the knee, to be domestic terrorists. The threat is real. They have transformed our nation into a place where silence = violence. If you aren't vocally supportive of the liberal state, you are an enemy of the state and thus a domestic terrorist.

With all of that said, I note that this nation was founded on armed resistance to English tyranny.

Self-defense is not murder.

 

[Anti Federalist]

I am hesitant to say much online these days. Anything can and will be used to declare those that don't bend the knee, to be domestic terrorists. The threat is real. They have transformed our nation into a place where silence = violence. If you aren't vocally supportive of the liberal state, you are an enemy of the state and thus a domestic terrorist.

With all of that said, I note that this nation was founded on armed resistance to English tyranny.

Self-defense is not murder.

No it is not.

Nor is it preemptive or a violation of the NAP to use to be left alone.

 

[jmdrake]

Ok, fine...I'm not at all convinced that it was all about Trump, but OK, I'm not going to push that aspect of it.

The point is this:



Exactly and so was I. And IIRC Jones ran them into the dirt as well.



And that shows that it works.

The left has shown us over the last year that it works.

If some of these folks want to charge the ramparts for Trump, OK fine, at least they are charging.

Which is more than we can say either one of us have done. I'm not suggesting we do so either, but whatever it tales to motivate people, even if only marginally correct, is good enough for me at this point.

Okay. "It" works. But what is "it?" What are the objectives and what are the methods? Alright. January 6th wasn't all about Trump. I'll by that. What was "it" about? Election fraud? Okay. I'm still waiting for the krackalaken. That issue can only be dealt with through meaningful dialog. Had the GOP kept the Senate they could have had hearing. But the energy (and money) that should have poured into winning two seats went into what led up to Jan 6th.

The Bundy standoff had a clear objective. And IMO it was totally non-violent. (I know the left would disagree but screw them.) The Michigan anti lockdown protest objective was clear. And yes, the BLM protests worked. The media was not fair in it's coverage. I expect the media not to be fair at this point. But the other issue is that the objective of BLM was not support for any particular politician, even though particular politicians did exploit what was going on. If you have an objective that's independent of a party or political figure you can draw a broader base of support. Q-Anon's apparent object is stopping powerful people doing sex trafficking. Who can argue with that? But making Trump, a man who bought a teen beauty pageant and bragged about walking in on the under aged contestants undressed, the focal point of their movement tainted their movement.

The Soviet states separated with almost no gunfire at all.

The Newfoundland and Labrador separated from England peacefully.

The Soviet Union collapsed. If the U.S. collapses there may be a peaceful "separation." But we aren't there yet. And the Balkans, which was once part of the Soviet Union, broke up with much bloodshed. The U.S. political map is much like the Balkans. It's not "red states" vs "blue states" so much as it is "red swaths vs blue swaths." Newfondland and Labrador are separated from England by an ocean.

 

[jmdrake]

I would not dispute that Trump was a tool. I would bet that COVID would have shut down the country regardless he was powerless to stop it. Turn on your TV to any channel and all you hear is New Strain COVID, When can you get your vaccine? New strain not as deadly but more contagious. Doesn't that fit the mask narrative? Is COVID a conspiracy? Is social distancing a fallacy? Does it come down to anything that MSM is saying is not true?

Trump ran on shutting down the Mexican border. In January 2020, based on what he told Bob Woodward, he should have shut down all the borders including international airports and seaports. And he should have fired Fauci.

 

[belian78]

No it is not.

Nor is it preemptive or a violation of the NAP to use to be left alone.

Hopefully most will not share this sentiment with you. It's akin to asking to have your head put in a woodchipper. NAP literally stands for Non Aggression Principle. I hope you're not one of the ones that will be trying to herd people to extremism around here along with BWPaulsen or however it's spelt.

 

[Invisible Man]

I would not dispute that Trump was a tool. I would bet that COVID would have shut down the country regardless he was powerless to stop it. Turn on your TV to any channel and all you hear is New Strain COVID, When can you get your vaccine? New strain not as deadly but more contagious. Doesn't that fit the mask narrative? Is COVID a conspiracy? Is social distancing a fallacy? Does it come down to anything that MSM is saying is not true?

He was powerless to stop the pandemic itself. But that's no big deal. We've had worse pandemics without the thought even crossing anybody's mind that trying to stop them was worth having the government even bother with.

But where he wasn't powerless was in the government response to the pandemic. And that government response was many times more harmful to our nation than the pandemic itself was.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Hopefully most will not share this sentiment with you. It's akin to asking to have your head put in a woodchipper. NAP literally stands for Non Aggression Principle. I hope you're not one of the ones that will be trying to herd people to extremism around here along with BWPaulsen or however it's spelt.

If you use force to stop force being done to you against your will, is that a violation of the NAP?

ETA - I'm not "herding" anybody.

Free men of good judgement will look at the situation and gauge for themselves, who and what is right.

You have an absolutely equal ability to speak to people here and convince them that your view is the correct path forward.

Let me be unequivocally clear in what I think: our current state of oppression is nothing to what is coming.

There will be no stopping it, there will be nothing left, "we" will not survive, unless we fight.

And unless we fight with a tenacity and toughness and force of will and creativity ten times that which drove men across Bunker Hill or up the mountains of Iwo Jima, we will fail.

And I do mean "fight" in the purest, literal meaning of the word: open bloody violent deadly armed conflict head to head with an enemy that has vowed to utterly crush us and reduce us to absolute despotism.

If this is too much for you, may I suggest the "Ignore" feature of the board.

 

[TheTexan]

Hopefully most will not share this sentiment with you. It's akin to asking to have your head put in a woodchipper. NAP literally stands for Non Aggression Principle. I hope you're not one of the ones that will be trying to herd people to extremism around here along with BWPaulsen or however it's spelt.

NAP is a funny thing.

Even the bureaucrats have no issue with invoking a small army to kill or capture you, for refusing to heed whatever petty dictate they chose that day to enforce.

Seems like a violation of the NAP to me.

 

[Invisible Man]

My point is, had Hillary been president and told people they had to stay home for Easter Sunday?? Not only every team red member in the country but also more than half the team blue members would have told her to shove it up her ass. The reason most people that consider themselves left leaning never took even a second to look into the actual science behind all this is that the argument got boiled down to "Trump says CV not real, Trump killing people, Trump bad". That's what his entire presidency got boiled down to. 'Anything Trump supported or stood for or spoke out for was EVIL' And the kicker? His grand finale was utterly destroying the republican party and white america for decades to come. NONE of that happens they way it did if Hillary is president.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to belian78 again."

 

[BSWPaulsen]

Hopefully most will not share this sentiment with you. It's akin to asking to have your head put in a woodchipper. NAP literally stands for Non Aggression Principle. I hope you're not one of the ones that will be trying to herd people to extremism around here along with BWPaulsen or however it's spelt.

Nobody is being herded toward extremism by anyone. Every individual is going to act according to their own will. If you think these discussions are some kind of contest for the minds of the undecided, then the truth contained within your rhetoric should be sufficient to sway them, and there is no cause for concern.

If you want to be the kind of person that cannot act until it is too late to effectively respond, then be my guest. Eunuch Libertarians exist for a reason.

 

[DamianTV]

My point is, had Hillary been president and told people they had to stay home for Easter Sunday?? Not only every team red member in the country but also more than half the team blue members would have told her to shove it up her ass. The reason most people that consider themselves left leaning never took even a second to look into the actual science behind all this is that the argument got boiled down to "Trump says CV not real, Trump killing people, Trump bad". That's what his entire presidency got boiled down to. 'Anything Trump supported or stood for or spoke out for was EVIL' And the kicker? His grand finale was utterly destroying the republican party and white america for decades to come. NONE of that happens they way it did if Hillary is president.

Is anyone gonna be surprised if they literally cancel 4th Of July because we no longer have FREEDOM? I refuse to celebrate that day any longer until LIBERTY is restored. ... if I live that long.

 

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

TBH I feel it's only a matter of time until forums like this one are shutdown for hate speech/inciting violence, using their definition of both.

 

[BSWPaulsen]

TBH I feel it's only a matter of time until forums like this one are shutdown for hate speech/inciting violence, using their definition of both.

Any defense against leftist activity is regarded as violence in their minds, so you are correct.

 

[Cleaner44]

We have a right to Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

The state is aggressively infringing on these rights.

The state is violation of the Constitution that they swear an oath to defend.

The people in the highest levels of our government openly despise the Constitution.

The state refuses to entertain any petition to the government for a redress of grievances.

It is not a violation of the NAP to provide for a defense against aggressive actors that seek to rob you of your life, your liberty and/or your property.

 

[Occam's Banana]

Any defense against leftist activity is regarded as violence in their minds, so you are correct.

Worse yet, any lack of support for (or defense on behalf of) leftist activity is regarded likewise.

IOW: "Silence is violence"

 

[BSWPaulsen]

Worse yet, any lack of support for (or defense on behalf of) leftist activity is regarded likewise.

IOW: "Silence is violence"

Correct, and I thank you for expanding on what I wrote. It is a very important point.

 

[Warrior_of_Freedom]

Correct, and I thank you for expanding on what I wrote. It is a very important point.

Their definition of "unity" is "assimilation" social media sites condition people to give the right opinion to receive the most likes/upvotes/etc otherwise what they say/post disappears or is bumped down until no one sees it.

 

[belian78]

We have a right to Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

The state is aggressively infringing on these rights.

The state is violation of the Constitution that they swear an oath to defend.

The people in the highest levels of our government openly despise the Constitution.

The state refuses to entertain any petition to the government for a redress of grievances.

It is not a violation of the NAP to provide for a defense against aggressive actors that seek to rob you of your life, your liberty and/or your property.

To say, "if/when these people come for me then I will fight" is a whole lot different than "we need to radicalize and go after these crazies before they can do the same to us".

 

[belian78]

Nobody is being herded toward extremism by anyone. Every individual is going to act according to their own will. If you think these discussions are some kind of contest for the minds of the undecided, then the truth contained within your rhetoric should be sufficient to sway them, and there is no cause for concern.

If you want to be the kind of person that cannot act until it is too late to effectively respond, then be my guest. Eunuch Libertarians exist for a reason.

I love that you are using that dogwhistle word, Eunuch. You're using it as a weapon, anyone that doesn't take your stance doesn't have balls. To those that see, it is ineffective. Point is, you and AF are championing preemptive aggression based off assumptions. I hope that it does not take hold around here.