Federal court rules state firearm laws invalid

[phill4paul]

lol
I had a hunch you would use this against my argument when I wrote it but wasn't
convinced that you would go there.
The big picture hasn't sht to do with Silencers, it has to do with the right to bear arms , we have
never been allowed to have silencers, this is the red herring the gun grabbers have all
been waiting for , a huge distraction and tool they will use to round up our weapons.
And as for swordsmyth , yes I stated that there are ways to kill without noise.

I find it very disturbing that either of you would latch on to this micro issue and equate it with the
right to bear arms, as a key point in the 'Grave importance' of our right to keep rogue government
at bay, because my friends that is the big picture.

If I invented an 'silent' bullet, should the government deny me the right to own one?

 

[phill4paul]

Catch up on your history and get back to me on this.

Edit: And I do concede your point on the terminology. As I described it is how it was taught to me.

Did you have a chance to catch up? Silencers, nod to your correct terminology, were entirely legal from 1909 until 1934. What happened in 1934? That one egregious period in time in which an act of Congress stripped away the Second Amendment. That's what happened. And the silencer and machine guns and short barreled shotguns and all the other crap that stripped away the rights of citizens to be on equal footing with the military squad that the Federal Government re-funds year after year despite warnings from the family of having a permanent Army.
Silencers, and the regulation thereof, are intricately tied into the demise of the 2nd Amendment.

 

[Stratovarious]

Did you have a chance to catch up? Silencers, nod to your correct terminology, were entirely legal from 1909 until 1934. What happened in 1934? That one egregious period in time in which an act of Congress stripped away the Second Amendment. That's what happened. And the silencer and machine guns and short barreled shotguns and all the other crap that stripped away the rights of citizens to be on equal footing with the military squad that the Federal Government re-funds year after year despite warnings from the family of having a permanent Army.
Silencers, and the regulation thereof, are intricately tied into the demise of the 2nd Amendment.

No Phil, I didn't do my 'homework' / 'research' ,
I'm not focusing on the fact that
as you say , 100 years ago they stripped our silencer right away,
though that is an interesting piece of history, thanks for posting
it.

My comments on this issue are from life experience , since the 60's ,
and likely as far back as the 40's , no one in their right mind in general society
would have thought they could legally use/posses silencers.
My concern is that of; where we are today, what can we do to
stop further erosion of the 2nd amendment.

Promoting and bringing silencers live is not where our energy should focus.
Silencers were always considered an assassin's tool, did we all want one,
hell yea what a cool way to target shoot etc.
Other ways of killing quietly?;
Sure, you can sneak up on someone and silently kill them
with a butter knife, a spoon , or a hammer, garrote, but you can
do so much more without getting blood on your clothes
or needing to get close and personal , and putting
yourself at 'risk' if you are there with a silencer, .
clean , anonymous.

With a Silencer;
No one needs to know what you did for up to hours/days or months.
The term suppressor in general society is a fairly modern term, my guess is that it
was borrowed from 'flash suppressor' nomenclature, possibly by accident,
but it stuck, and in the literal sense 'suppression' is more accurately
what they are, still 'suppressor' is somewhat of a euphemism today imv.
Silencers aren't silent, most people understand that, but the
noise reduction is enough to give a murderer anonymity , in practical scenarios.
The silencer issue as a splinter issue, the core issue is not
adding legal accessories to our weapons, rather preserving what we have,
stopping them from demonizing and banning bump stock/semi auto/
magazine capacities, registration , sales restrictions, etc.

Big Picture;
Preserving an armed population, to prevent the death of the first
amendment which is only in place because we are still armed.
Prevent genocide which never occurs until all our weapons are registered,
then confiscated.

Tiny Picture;
Adding a new accessory 'right' that will add to the
fuel of the left's arguments to take our weapons away.
This accessory is valuable to the left in that respect, it is just
what they need, the final 'nail' ......
I'm already being redundant so from here out I think I'll just leave it
at that.
And just so you know , I've written thousands of pro 2nd amendment
rants since 2002, I will paste a couple here if I can dig up copies that I
have saved , youtube stripped me of all my posts during the purge,
where most of them resided.
=============================

Some posts that I saved, nothing special here, just
some quick mini rants I found, the links won't work
due to the purge, but do show where they were posted.
Nothing is particulary edited either, they are close to
'live chats' :

New reply on "Thank God Alex isn't backpedaling for Trump's
turning his back 00:45:00 on the 2nd amendment, the issue
should be ending BIG PHARMA DRUGGING of our youth,
and enforcing already existing laws, as well as investigating
the FBI for ignoring youths that threaten to attack schools.
The media makes big stars out of all shooters, they cover it
so much that society begins to think it is acceptable to kill
people when 'you' get angry or aren't getting your way."
-------------------------------------------------
Govts kill Millions of times more innocent people than all the civilian caused
deaths throughout all of human history, the single most important task that all
civilians have is to prevent their own and foreign govts/entities ( read NATO)
from democide/genocide, wholesale slaughter of you , your sons and
daughters as well your pets, and subsequent acquisition of all your wealth
and belongings that you worked a lifetime for.
2nd Amendment , "...Right to Bear Arms Shall not be infringed" our
forefathers knew from experience how vitally important that
right is/was.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXZ4nSPwzNA
--------------------------------------------------
New reply on "Thank God Alex isn't backpedaling for Trump's
turning his back 00:45:00 on the 2nd amendment, the issue
should be ending BIG PHARMA DRUGGING of our youth,
and enforcing already existing laws, as well as investigating
the FBI for ignoring youths that threaten to attack schools.
The media makes big stars out of all shooters, they cover it
so much that society begins to think it is acceptable to kill
people when 'you' get angry or aren't getting your way."
-------------------------------------------------
Govts kill Millions of times more innocent people than all the civilian caused
deaths throughout all of human history, the single most important task that all
civilians have is to prevent their own and foreign govts/entities ( read NATO)
from democide/genocide, wholesale slaughter of you , your sons and
daughters as well your pets, and subsequent acquisition of all your wealth
and belongings that you worked a lifetime for.
2nd Amendment , "...Right to Bear Arms Shall not be infringed" our
forefathers knew from experience how vitally important that
right is/was.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXZ4nSPwzNA
------------------------------------------------
2nd Amendment wasn't really written with women particularly in mind*, but
does anyone ever find it very creepy that liberals want women completely
HELPLESS.......and they are so pro women's rights;;;;;;;;;???
* I say that 'not in mind' because back in the day , it was very obvious,
that the man was primarily in charge of that sort of thing, but today, a woman
probably has a hell of a lot more exposure to attack then days of old.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJ00wtium0I

When the military and law enforcement turn in their weapons, I will too, until then piss up a rope....We are a country with a Constitution that was an inspired work.
I suppose the idiots that don't believe in the 2nd amendment think women, or handicapped, or elderly should be stronger and bigger than thugs.
They don't deserve to defend themselves if they aren't
kung foo experts or pro cage fighters?
99% or the time law enforcement is going to be at your side just
in time to zip you into a body bag, they can't be everywhere all the time, they will never be able to prevent violent crime, an
armed citizenry does and can.
The biggest cause of homicide in human history is always governments, and genocide never occurs while the citizens are well
armed, arms are registered and rounded up first,
a rogue government is never routed through petition .
Citizens are never protected from any source , be it criminals or
tyrannical governments, through kind words and peaceful rhetoric.
Gun grabbing pc liberal pussies can kiss my ash...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-oJBnbaTvA

 

[Swordsmyth]

No Phil, I didn't do my 'homework' / 'research' ,
I'm not focusing on the fact that
as you say , 100 years ago they stripped our silencer right away,
though that is an interesting piece of history, thanks for posting
it.

My comments on this issue are from life experience , since the 60's ,
and likely as far back as the 40's , no one in their right mind in general society
would have thought they could legally use/posses silencers.
My concern is that of; where we are today, what can we do to
stop further erosion of the 2nd amendment.

Promoting and bringing silencers live is not where our energy should focus.
Silencers were always considered an assassin's tool, did we all want one,
hell yea what a cool way to target shoot etc.
Other ways of killing quietly?;
Sure, you can sneak up on someone and silently kill them
with a butter knife, a spoon , or a hammer, garrote, but you can
do so much more without getting blood on your clothes
or needing to get close and personal , and putting
yourself at 'risk' if you are there with a silencer, .
clean , anonymous.

With a Silencer;
No one needs to know what you did for up to hours/days or months.
The term suppressor in general society is a fairly modern term, my guess is that it
was borrowed from 'flash suppressor' nomenclature, possibly by accident,
but it stuck, and in the literal sense 'suppression' is more accurately
what they are, still 'suppressor' is somewhat of a euphemism today imv.
Silencers aren't silent, most people understand that, but the
noise reduction is enough to give a murderer anonymity , in practical scenarios.
The silencer issue as a splinter issue, the core issue is not
adding legal accessories to our weapons, rather preserving what we have,
stopping them from demonizing and banning bump stock/semi auto/
magazine capacities, registration , sales restrictions, etc.

Big Picture;
Preserving an armed population, to prevent the death of the first
amendment which is only in place because we are still armed.
Prevent genocide which never occurs until all our weapons are registered,
then confiscated.

Tiny Picture;
Adding a new accessory 'right' that will add to the
fuel of the left's arguments to take our weapons away.
This accessory is valuable to the left in that respect, it is just
what they need, the final 'nail' ......
I'm already being redundant so from here out I think I'll just leave it
at that.
And just so you know , I've written thousands of pro 2nd amendment
rants since 2002, I will paste a couple here if I can dig up copies that I
have saved , youtube stripped me of all my posts during the purge,
where most of them resided.
=============================



New reply on "Thank God Alex isn't backpedaling for Trump's
turning his back 00:45:00 on the 2nd amendment, the issue
should be ending BIG PHARMA DRUGGING of our youth,
and enforcing already existing laws, as well as investigating
the FBI for ignoring youths that threaten to attack schools.
The media makes big stars out of all shooters, they cover it
so much that society begins to think it is acceptable to kill
people when 'you' get angry or aren't getting your way."
-------------------------------------------------
Govts kill Millions of times more innocent people than all the civilian caused
deaths throughout all of human history, the single most important task that all
civilians have is to prevent their own and foreign govts/entities ( read NATO)
from democide/genocide, wholesale slaughter of you , your sons and
daughters as well your pets, and subsequent acquisition of all your wealth
and belongings that you worked a lifetime for.
2nd Amendment , "...Right to Bear Arms Shall not be infringed" our
forefathers knew from experience how vitally important that
right is/was.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXZ4nSPwzNA
--------------------------------------------------
New reply on "Thank God Alex isn't backpedaling for Trump's
turning his back 00:45:00 on the 2nd amendment, the issue
should be ending BIG PHARMA DRUGGING of our youth,
and enforcing already existing laws, as well as investigating
the FBI for ignoring youths that threaten to attack schools.
The media makes big stars out of all shooters, they cover it
so much that society begins to think it is acceptable to kill
people when 'you' get angry or aren't getting your way."
-------------------------------------------------
Govts kill Millions of times more innocent people than all the civilian caused
deaths throughout all of human history, the single most important task that all
civilians have is to prevent their own and foreign govts/entities ( read NATO)
from democide/genocide, wholesale slaughter of you , your sons and
daughters as well your pets, and subsequent acquisition of all your wealth
and belongings that you worked a lifetime for.
2nd Amendment , "...Right to Bear Arms Shall not be infringed" our
forefathers knew from experience how vitally important that
right is/was.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXZ4nSPwzNA
------------------------------------------------
2nd Amendment wasn't really written with women particularly in mind*, but
does anyone ever find it very creepy that liberals want women completely
HELPLESS.......and they are so pro women's rights;;;;;;;;;???
* I say that 'not in mind' because back in the day , it was very obvious,
that the man was primarily in charge of that sort of thing, but today, a woman
probably has a hell of a lot more exposure to attack then days of old.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJ00wtium0I

When the military and law enforcement turn in their weapons, I will too, until then piss up a rope....We are a country with a Constitution that was an inspired work.
I suppose the idiots that don't believe in the 2nd amendment think women, or handicapped, or elderly should be stronger and bigger than thugs.
They don't deserve to defend themselves if they aren't
kung foo experts or pro cage fighters?
99% or the time law enforcement is going to be at your side just
in time to zip you into a body bag, they can't be everywhere all the time, they will never be able to prevent violent crime, an
armed citizenry does and can.
The biggest cause of homicide in human history is always governments, and genocide never occurs while the citizens are well
armed, arms are registered and rounded up first,
a rogue government is never routed through petition .
Citizens are never protected from any source , be it criminals or
tyrannical governments, through kind words and peaceful rhetoric.
Gun grabbing pc liberal pussies can kiss my ash...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-oJBnbaTvA

The best way to avoid losing ground is to attack and take more.

 

[PAF]

[MENTION=65299]Swordsmyth[/MENTION]

I'm shocked! Is it just this topic? Or have you taken a new change of heart as of very recent?

 

[Swordsmyth]

@Swordsmyth

I'm shocked! Is it just this topic? Or have you taken a new change of heart as of very recent?

That is always my attitude when it is possible, I want to take America for freedom instead of surrendering it to the invading hordes.

 

[PAF]

That is always my attitude when it is possible, I want to take America for freedom instead of surrendering it to the invading hordes.

You blew it, I had my hopes up.

I'm still reading through that "emergency" spending bill +/- few hundred more pages. What you think about it?

 

[Swordsmyth]

You blew it, I had my hopes up.

I'm still reading through that "emergency" spending bill +/- few hundred more pages. What you think about it?

I don't like it but Congress was going to pass it over a veto anyway.

 

[PAF]

I don't like it but Congress was going to pass it over a veto anyway.

Aw, thanks for the heart. Does that mean you support that Global lgbtq initiative?

So, what you are saying is, trump gets a pass for demanding it, because if he didn't, they would have passed it anyway?

I'm confused now. Did trump like it and demanded it? Or did he not like it and demanded it?

Serious question... what parts did you not like?

 

[Swordsmyth]

Aw, thanks for the heart. Does that mean you support that Global lgbtq initiative?

I guess I should have used a after that broken heart but I thought it was obvious.

So, what you are saying is, trump gets a pass for demanding it, because if he didn't, they would have passed it anyway?

I'm confused now. Did trump like it and demanded it? Or did he not like it and demanded it?

Serious question... what parts did you not like?

He demanded funds for the wall, he did not demand the rest of what was in the bill.
The wall is not my preferred method of securing the border but it is better than doing nothing.
Almost everything else in the bill was terrible.

 

[PAF]

I guess I should have used a after that broken heart but I thought it was obvious.


He demanded funds for the wall, he did not demand the rest of what was in the bill.
The wall is not my preferred method of securing the border but it is better than doing nothing.
Almost everything else in the bill was terrible.

Fair enough, you support that stupid wall. So here's my question, keeping in mind I know exactly what's in that spending bill:

Trump, the business man that he is, is fully aware of contracts and expenditures. He is presented with well over a thousand pages, and out of that thousand pages he wanted one single thing: money for a wall. Because it's an "emergency".

Now, he demanded and knew the emergency bill would pass. But somehow there's not enough to do what he wanted. Taking that into account and wanting to MAGA, millions upon billions, go to International Organizations, Refugees in Africa, United Nations Population fund, Multilateral Fund for Montreal which is not even part of the U.S. (yet)...

Explain to me how or why he would demand over a thousand pages of bullsh|t as an "emergency" just to get a stinking bill or two out of $350,000,000,000 of tax payer money.

Is that really MAGA? Was it the "emergency" that he boasted?

At what point do people begin to figure things out and know that it's all a farce?

The bonus question: since that stuff is globalist, is trump a Globalist?

 

[Swordsmyth]

Fair enough, you support that stupid wall. So here's my question, keeping in mind I know exactly what's in that spending bill:

Trump, the business man that he is, is fully aware of contracts and expenditures. He is presented with well over a thousand pages, and out of that thousand pages he wanted one single thing: money for a wall. Because it's an "emergency".

Now, he demanded and knew the emergency bill would pass. But somehow there's not enough to do what he wanted. Taking that into account and wanting to MAGA, millions upon billions, go to International Organizations, Refugees in Africa, United Nations Population fund, Multilateral Fund for Montreal which is not even part of the U.S. (yet)...

Explain to me how or why he would demand over a thousand pages of bullsh|t as an "emergency" just to get a stinking bill or two out of $650,000,000,000 of tax payer money.

Is that really MAGA? Was it the "emergency" that he boasted?

At what point do people begin to figure things out and know that it's all a farce?

The bonus question: since that stuff is globalist, is trump a Globalist?

He didn't demand the other garbage, please post one example of him asking for any of that.
Congress put all of that in there and wouldn't pass anything without it.

 

[PAF]

He didn't demand the other garbage, please post one example of him asking for any of that.
Congress put all of that in there and wouldn't pass anything without it.

Don't side-step. Whether he asked for those things or not, don't tell me he was not aware of over 1,000 pages. As I stated, he is a business man privy to contracts and expenditures. I am certain he knew what was in it, whether he requested it or not.

AS PRESIDENT, was that $350,000,000,000 bill the emergency that he boasted it to be, and was it in the best interest of MAGA?

 

[Swordsmyth]

Don't side-step. Whether he asked for those things or not, don't tell me he was not aware of over 1,000 pages. As I stated, he is a business man privy to contracts and expenditures. I am certain he knew what was in it, whether he requested it or not.

AS PRESIDENT, was that $650,000,000,000 bill the emergency that he boasted it to be, and was it in the best interest of MAGA?

It was going to pass over his veto anyway and they may have cut out the money for the wall.

 

[PAF]

It was going to pass over his veto anyway and they may have cut out the money for the wall.

Again, do not side-step, please.

AS PRESIDENT, was that $350,000,000,000 bill the emergency that he boasted it to be, and was it in the best interest of MAGA?

Trump could have stated to the people what was in it to make the tax payer aware. He could have explained to the people that globalists agendas riddled the bill and refuse to sign it. At that point if it did pass, it would not be at his hand.

Please answer my question.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Again, do not side-step, please.

AS PRESIDENT, was that $650,000,000,000 bill the emergency that he boasted it to be, and was it in the best interest of MAGA?

The invasion is an emergency and stopping it is in the best interests of MAGA.

Trump could have stated to the people what was in it to make the tax payer aware. He could have explained to the people that globalists agendas riddled the bill and refuse to sign it. At that point if it did pass, it would not be at his hand.

Please answer my question.

And he could lose all cooperation from McConnell and the Republicans and be impeached, he may not be doing the best he can at this point or he may, in 2 more years we will see what he has done both good and bad and decide whether or not he has earned reelection.

 

[PAF]

The invasion is an emergency and stopping it is in the best interests of MAGA.


And he could lose all cooperation from McConnell and the Republicans and be impeached, he may not be doing the best he can at this point or he may, in 2 more years we will see what he has done both good and bad and decide whether or not he has earned reelection.

So what are eluding to is, it is better to withhold (lie) to the American people, because he would have risked impeachment because Republicans support a globalist agenda.

And as long as globalist agendas are passed (ie that bill, along with Omnibus), it reassures his election, which is in the best interest of the tax paying Americans who are trying to reclaim our country.


This is what being principled is all about. And until people realize that, you and others who support that NY Globalist are the very reason this country is a shi|t hole.


Do you understand now what my position is?


Btw, that $1.5 - $2B whatever it is for that wall just cost Americans a whopping extra $348,000,000,000 NOT used for that wall.




Apologies for side-tracking the OP topic, this conversation should have been a thread of its own.

 

[Swordsmyth]

So what are eluding to is, it is better to withhold (lie) to the American people, because he would have risked impeachment because Republicans support a globalist agenda.

And as long as globalist agendas are passed (ie that bill, along with Omnibus), it reassures his election, which is in the best interest of the tax paying Americans who are trying to reclaim our country.


This is what being principled is all about. And until people realize that, you and others who support that NY Globalist are the very reason this country is a shi|t hole.


Do you understand now what my position is?


Btw, that $1.5 - $2B whatever it is for that wall just cost Americans a whopping extra $648,000,000,000 NOT used for that wall.




Apologies for side-tracking the OP topic, this conversation should have been a thread of its own.

I'll take some good progress over none provided it is enough because it is better to get some good than all bad, that is a principled stand.

Whether Trump delivers enough remains to be seen.


And yes, let's stop derailing this thread.

 

[osan]

In fact, each of the reasons the Supreme Court gave in 1937, finding it to be a tax, no longer apply today, 82 years later.

It never applied.

Rather, the NFA has become what Justice Frankfurter once described as regulation “wrapped … in the verbal cellophane of a revenue measure” — an unabashed gun control regulatory scheme, designed not to raise revenue for the federal government, but instead to keep NFA items out of the hands of Americans.

Next, Jeremy’s petition challenges the Tenth Circuit’s absurd holding that the Second Amendment applies only to “bearable arms” — but not firearm accessories, such as suppressors. The petition points out that the Second, Third, Seventh, and Ninth Circuits all have concluded that the Second Amendment extends beyond actual firearms to ammunition, magazines, the ability to purchase firearms in gun stores, and the right to practice at shooting ranges.

If the NINTH gets something so obvious, then it must be REALLY obvious. Therefore, we cannot conclude error based in ignorance, but rather in purposeful corruption. Whoever was the judge should be quietly investigated, removed from the bench, and imprisoned for not less than ten years at hard labor at the military barracks. Hammering these bastards hard including the wrecking of their families is the only way to put this sort of thing to proper ends.

Finally, Jeremy’s petition argues that, if the Supreme Court continues to uphold the NFA as a “tax,” then it is allowing Congress to impose a tax on a constitutionally-protected right — something which the Supreme Court has long said to be unconstitutional.

That is an absolutely brilliant tack. Whoever coughed up that little gem should get a large raise because it is worth 1000x its weight in gold.

Prior to the confirmation of Justice Kavanaugh in October of last year, the Supreme Court had refused to hear numerous firearms cases, leading some members of the Court to comment on the “distressing trend” — “the treatment of the Second Amendment as a disfavored right.”

As if that were different from the previous years? The aberration there were the few short years where SCOTUS agreed to hear Heller and MacDonald. Prior, they had steadfastly refused to hear cases for at least a couple of decades. I remember because I was there, paying attention.

 

[TheTexan]

I love weapons and I love silencers, but in the wrong hands , which
would be many and varied, they are licenses to anonymously murder.
When someone is killed with a firearm, I appreciate a loud noise,
I don't see it as a lot to ask.
There are ways of deadening the noise without a 'silencer' but most
thugs aren't that smart, if they could buy silencers the
intelligence barrier is broken.
Ear protection is one of the arguments proponents use for the justification
of silencers, I get it, but, well I've got ear plugs, a small price to pay.

Point two;
This imv has nothing to do with the 2nd amendment and opponents will
use this 'effectively' to disarm us, that opens us up to a much more
important issue ; genocide , agenda 21, Globalism.

We are building a Trojan Horse here, much bigger fry to catch.

I couldn't agree more. Silencers are weapons of war, designed for killing people, and therefore are not protected by the 2nd amendment's constitutional right to bear traditional deer hunting weapons.