Fed up: Anger rising across America

[osan]

If you mean the majority of people being on welfare an Achilles Heel to the regime, I don't see how it could be. People don't bite the hand that feeds and clothes them except in very unusual circumstances.

They do when the status quo is disrupted. If businesses began refusing EBT in sufficiently large numbers, some poo would collide with the fan.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

They do when the status quo is disrupted. If businesses began refusing EBT in sufficiently large numbers, some poo would collide with the fan.

That's exactly the sort of unusual circumstance I was speaking of, comrade.

 

[osan]

What if there is the slightest hiccup?

Poo ensues. Example: 2012, Charleston WV in the wake of storm that took out power to 500K homes for 2 full weeks. By day three there were fist fights over places in line at the ONLY gas station in town with a generator and, hence, available fuel. Mind you this is WV where just about everyone carries a gun and people are very polite when compared with most of the American population. THREE DAYS.

Of this I am confident: if a hiccup of even modest severity hits an area, mark my words there will be some interesting fireworks to ensue.

Americans may be "nice" people, but they are also assholes of the first order in the mean case - the same as with most of the rest of the "developed" world. In fact, I intend on writing a piece on this very topic before much longer, as I believe the topic could use some attention.

 

[Carson]

osan,

Your post number 20 reminds me of one of the aspects of war my Grandmother was trying to get through to me. She wasn't alive during the civil war but she said one of the things that happened during it was it seemed to take people over. People that all of their lives would have never thought of doing harm to others or others property just went off the deep end and were doing bad things wholesale. I guess everyone got caught up in themselves like a shark feeding frenzy.

Now I suspect they had a lot of pent up frustrations.

And I'm also thinking just because your weren't caught up didn't mean you might not be caught up.

 

[Anti Federalist]

osan,

Your post number 20 reminds me of one of the aspects of war my Grandmother was trying to get through to me. She wasn't alive during the civil war but she said one of the things that happened during it was it seemed to take people over. People that all of their lives would have never thought of doing harm to others or others property just went off the deep end and were doing bad things wholesale. I guess everyone got caught up in themselves like a shark feeding frenzy.

Now I suspect they had a lot of pent up frustrations.

And I'm also thinking just because your weren't caught up didn't mean you might not be caught up.

Imagine that happening now.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

Imagine that happening now.

It doesn't take a lot of imagination.

 

[osan]

osan,

Your post number 20 reminds me of one of the aspects of war my Grandmother was trying to get through to me. She wasn't alive during the civil war but she said one of the things that happened during it was it seemed to take people over. People that all of their lives would have never thought of doing harm to others or others property just went off the deep end and were doing bad things wholesale. I guess everyone got caught up in themselves like a shark feeding frenzy.

Now I suspect they had a lot of pent up frustrations.

And I'm also thinking just because your weren't caught up didn't mean you might not be caught up.

Is this so difficult to imagine as being the result of having been trampled upon by others who hold no authority to do so?

How far do people allow their fellows to abuse them with ever growing injustice? What does one do when those same fellows make it clear they are no longer listening because they feel they no longer need to, in turn because they no longer respect you because they no longer fear you as equals? Let us be crystal clear on this one point: if and when America blows its top it will be because Theye made it so. Theye set the stage that all but guaranteed the nation would arise in great anger and when Theye are flayed alive and hung from every lamp post from Portland Maine to Portland Oregon it will be impossible to rightly blame those who did the deeds. My only real apprehension on that point is that some of us may run amok for the reasons you cite... getting "caught up" in the frenzy, which is always a dangerous thing and which history shows us most often goes very wrong. Just consider the course the French Revolution took - a perfect example of people getting caught up in events such that their perspectives are grossly distorted, becoming the monsters against whom they initially rose.

But I have faith in the good and decent people of this country - that is, in the types of people who are most likely to stand up and say "no more!", because those are precisely the sorts of people who will most likely keep their heads about themselves and their decency fast in hand. The rest, the idiot meaners, they can burn for all I care.

 

[Carson]

Imagine that happening now.

I too was thinking it is happening now. More a reality coming to light than something imagined.

 

[DamianTV]

So who was the asshat who rated this thread 1 star when first posted?

 

[Anti Federalist]

So who was the asshat who rated this thread 1 star when first posted?

I was wondering that myself.

 

[tod evans]

Just gave 'er a bump....

 

[DamianTV]

Im actually kind of mixed on this whole thing:

On one hand, people are getting fed up and Anger is rising.

On the other hand, people ignore the most heinous of infringements on ALL Rights and cheer the Cops on, as long as they can still continue to collect their Welfare.

Maybe people are getting so pissed that they might actually complain to someone about it, from their couch.

 

[tod evans]

As long as farmers and utility workers are willing to work for paper chits [FRN's] or digital credits the masses will sit subserviently and suck on the tit...

The moment real money enters the equation all bets are off.......

 

[james1844]

Hi All,

For those of you thinking about what civil war in the US might look like...I'll just tell you this: I spent a year in Afghanistan back in 2011. You do not want to experience what a prolonged conflict will do to American society and social institutions. Its tremendously destructive in all respects. I would urge my fellow Ron Paul supporters not be naïve - don't focus on the potential for conflict, instead focus on getting politicians like Rand Paul elected or on supporting local initiatives which increase Republican values and pro-freedom policies.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

Hi All,

For those of you thinking about what civil war in the US might look like...I'll just tell you this: I spent a year in Afghanistan back in 2011. You do not want to experience what a prolonged conflict will do to American society and social institutions. Its tremendously destructive in all respects. I would urge my fellow Ron Paul supporters not be naïve - don't focus on the potential for conflict, instead focus on getting politicians like Rand Paul elected or on supporting local initiatives which increase Republican values and pro-freedom policies.

Nobody, or almost nobody on RPF's actually wants to see a hot conflict. We have been working since 2007 basically nonstop just to prevent that very eventuality. Seeing it coming and making ready for it, is not the same thing as wanting it to happen.

 

[Pericles]

Nobody, or almost nobody on RPF's actually wants to see a hot conflict. We have been working since 2007 basically nonstop just to prevent that very eventuality. Seeing it coming and making ready for it, is not the same thing as wanting it to happen.

Indeed, it is simply the case that this is very likely to happen:

when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.

 

[acptulsa]

Hi All,

For those of you thinking about what civil war in the US might look like...I'll just tell you this: I spent a year in Afghanistan back in 2011. You do not want to experience what a prolonged conflict will do to American society and social institutions. Its tremendously destructive in all respects. I would urge my fellow Ron Paul supporters not be naïve - don't focus on the potential for conflict, instead focus on getting politicians like Rand Paul elected or on supporting local initiatives which increase Republican values and pro-freedom policies.

Indeed, we have been.

And if we fail in that, we are hopeful that we will at least done enough to ensure that some of the pissed off people will know who they should actually be mad at. This, to me, is the big problem. The government will say those with jobs are to blame because those with jobs don't let the government rob them enough. That has the distinct advantage of being an extremely simple explanation. We still have our work cut out to counter it.

 

[Carson]

Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
Nobody, or almost nobody on RPF's actually wants to see a hot conflict. We have been working since 2007 basically nonstop just to prevent that very eventuality. Seeing it coming and making ready for it, is not the same thing as wanting it to happen.

Indeed, it is simply the case that this is very likely to happen:

Quote Originally Posted by The Declaration
when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.

when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.

I remember a teacher pointing this out to us in grade school.

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html

 

[DamianTV]

Violence really is an absolute LAST RESORT. Every effort to cause changes that benefit the people must be given serious effort prior to a violent revolution.

One of the things that scares me more than anything else is the reasons that people will commit to violence are in support of the very things that created the problems to begin with. I'd dare to go so far as to say that if Cops went into some school and summarily executed every single child in that school, no one would do a damn thing about it, but on the other hand, if you cut Welfare by 20% there would be violence in the streets by morning. Welfare itself is a form of control through dependancy, and those who would commit to violence for not getting Govt Welfare are supporting the very thing that has created the need for Welfare to begin with. It is as if people are demanding to be enslaved. And also the greatest threat that a Democracy poses to itself. When the people figure out they can vote themselves money out of the public coffers, your Democracy is done. The violence of protesting not getting enough from the Public Coffers is where that Democracy wastes and then murders itself. And it is pretty much exactly where we are at right now.

There are typically three stages to Revolution:

#1 Spread of Information
#2 Widespread Disobedience
#3 Violent Revolution

Thats what it takes for a Revolution, but all it takes for Violence is to piss a bunch of people off quickly. Rodney King (cant we all just get along) who was beaten by Cops, then all the Cops were found Not Guilty. Peole Rioted. But not all of those that engaged in those riots were protesting the verdict, many were so upset about things in general that they became violent for the sake of becoming violent.

The spread of information is very powerful as it enables people to enact changes without violence. We can act on that information and try to fix the problems that exist. If people in office do not listen to the demands of the people, the Revolution quickly falls to step 2. Step 1 is also quite suseptible to Propoganda and Disinformation. With the NSA, this is where people who share information about the wrongdoings of the controllers wil be silenced and why spying on an entire population is so incredibly dangerous. Using Disinformation to create confusion and mixed emotional responses is often crafted to prevent escalation. If people are unsure that something is wrong, they may not react in a violent manner against viewing said information, and may not share it with others. Look at all the confusion over every conflict we have right now. There is no clear "bad guy". Syria, Egypt, Ukraine. But look at Iraq, and ISIS is being painted as the "bad guy". Most likely this is because the plan of invading Iran requires a military presence in Iraq. The sinking of the Lusatania in WWI was used to gain the support of the American Public to enter into the War. It was clearly presented as who the "bad guys" were.

Stage 1 is where Control is still possible. A revolution can be stopped in its tracks my many means. Stop the spread of information. Poison the information with Confusion. Revolutions can also be manufactured. With enough propoganda, it is possible to Manufacture Conscent or Manufacture Dissent. The easiest way to destroy an enemy is to get the enemy to destroy itself first. The spread of Disinformation in enemy regions can have catastrophic consequences. One truly needs to be careful with information as it can easily go both ways, both toward a benefit of a people, or benefit of the powers that be.

Stage 2 is widespread disobedience. People stop obeying the rules, laws, and commands as dictated by the controllers. This is NOT a form of violence. A single individual can still resort to violence to protect themselves when they do not obey the dictates. Weed is illegal. How many times have Cops beaten the shit out of people for having / smoking pot? Yet, in and of itself, there is nothing wrong with pot. A person is still responsible for their actions while smoking pot, but our Govt would have you believe it is the most evil and vile act a person can take. The choice to disobey the dictates is an indication that Stage 3 is coming. Often in Stage 2 an order will be given to no longer spread information that is not "approved". Again, this Stage of a revolution is highly suseptible to external interference. Protestors and those who genuinely support a balanced power between Govt and People are again silenced.

Stage 3 is Violence, and the scenario that most Govts fear. Those with power think they have an exclusive Right to hold such power and will also commit to violence to maintain that power they have. If a person has not commited to either of the first two stages, you can pretty much guarantee that Stage 3 will fail. Its not about the numbers, its about the commitment that a person has. IE, its not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog. "Sure, I'll fight against my corrupt govt, if you PAY me". They have no genuine reason other than selfish greed to act on. They see very little wrong with the actions of a corrupt Govt because of all that Disinformation creating a sense of Confusion. They dont see Welfare as bad or wrong, but something "they deserve", just as they will think they deserve a "paycheck" for engaging in violence.

The violence is dangerous for many reasons. Active fighting will weaken the power of the controllers. This weakening could cause an even more dangerous entity to take up residence in the seat of power. Anarchy in concept is very different than the way it behaves. Total anarchy is much like a vacuum where something will rush in because the people want an end to the very thing they created in the first place. Take out Dianne Feinstein with violence and the risk is she will be replaced with Hitler. The violent Stage of a Revolution needs to have a very clearly defined set of goals for those who are still confused. This is one of the primary reasons why the Declaration of Independence was written. It is Informational and provided a clear set of goals. Very few have read the Declaration in its entirety, but in its time, was much more widely read and understood.

Violence also heavily operates on the Broken Window Fallacy. Destroy yourself and you end up doing your enemys job for them. Weakening of Power will occur on both sides. The violent stage of Revolution is where there is the most risk as one could end up with something far worse and much more sinister than the corrupt power that is being replaced. This means that the Revolutionaries really need to understand everything that is going on. Disinformation, Manufactured Concent and Dissent, Insurrection, Goals, Risks, Collateral Damage.

The Revolutionaries that do not clearly understand the numerous aspects of the situation are at risk of destroying the very civilization they are trying to save, and unfortunately, seems to be exactly where we are headed. Our citizens will revolt, not aganst Abuses of Power, but demand an even bigger and more pervasive System of Power than we had before. Knowledge can either free a society, or completely enslave it. If knowledge is controlled, it can be used to keep a populus dumbed down to the point where their actions inadvertently cause more problems than the ones they are revolting against. But knowledge of the Limitations of Power can keep those who hold such Power in check in order to maintain the Balance between the People and their Govt. This Knowledge can even prevent Violence from taking place to begin with. Knowledge is more powerful than Violence and the Pen truly is mightier than the Sword.

Violent Revolution, although sometimes very necessary, should be avoided AT ALL COSTS.

 

[osan]

Violence really is an absolute LAST RESORT. Every effort to cause changes that benefit the people must be given serious effort prior to a violent revolution.

Empty statement without knowing the parameters for determining when you have arrived at "last resort". What may qualify as last resort under one set of circumstances may prove too late or premature under others.

One of the things that scares me more than anything else is the reasons that people will commit to violence are in support of the very things that created the problems to begin with.

Eminent logic fail. This is analogous to the assertion that fighting off a rapist is tantamount to supporting rape. Not quite sure where you're coming from with all this, but so far you are off any mark with which I could agree.

I'd dare to go so far as to say that if Cops went into some school and summarily executed every single child in that school, no one would do a damn thing about it, but on the other hand, if you cut Welfare by 20% there would be violence in the streets by morning. Welfare itself is a form of control through dependancy, and those who would commit to violence for not getting Govt Welfare are supporting the very thing that has created the need for Welfare to begin with.

Wow... you need to take a week away from this and come back to it with fresh eyes. It's THAT bad, no offense. Here you are employing non sequitur a-la-grande. While you are correct about the problems of dependence, it has nothing to do with throwing off a tyrant with one's rifle. The two have little to do with each other.

It is as if people are demanding to be enslaved. And also the greatest threat that a Democracy poses to itself. When the people figure out they can vote themselves money out of the public coffers, your Democracy is done. The violence of protesting not getting enough from the Public Coffers is where that Democracy wastes and then murders itself. And it is pretty much exactly where we are at right now.

Sweet Jesus... my head's starting to hurt. Nobody is talking about rioting for a welfare check. We are talking about revolting against those who are destroying us. To rise up and smite down such tyrants is an act of self-defense; not one of piss and bile as one throws a hissy fit because they didn't get their check.

Rodney King (cant we all just get along) who was beaten by Cops, then all the Cops were found Not Guilty. Peole Rioted. But not all of those that engaged in those riots were protesting the verdict, many were so upset about things in general that they became violent for the sake of becoming violent.

A lot of those rioters were doing nothing more than taking advantage of mass chaos so that they could rob the local electronics stores and cop a free TV.

The spread of information is very powerful as it enables people to enact changes without violence.

Maybe. Bear in mind that thus far the spread of information has, at best, managed to slow Themme down just by some skinny margin. It has yet to do anything to roll back the tyrant's advances upon the territory of our rights... unless you can point to some event wherein our freedoms have expanded significantly from their current state of compression.

We can act on that information and try to fix the problems that exist.

People have been at this for at least 5 decades now. Either this is ineffective or we REALLY suck at it.

If people in office do not listen to the demands of the people, the Revolution quickly falls to step 2.

Perhaps, but one must wonder how long it takes because Theye have not been listening to us since at least 9/11/01. Actually, it si much longer than that, but let me be princely generous.

Stage 1 is where Control is still possible. A revolution can be stopped in its tracks my many means.

Thus far, Theye are making superb work of it.

Stage 2 is widespread disobedience.

And even after all these decades of taking it in the neck time over time, we are still apparently nowhere near Stage 2, as you call it. That isn't saying anything good about us.

People stop obeying the rules, laws, and commands as dictated by the controllers. This is NOT a form of violence. A single individual can still resort to violence to protect themselves when they do not obey the dictates. Weed is illegal. How many times have Cops beaten the shit out of people for having / smoking pot? Yet, in and of itself, there is nothing wrong with pot. A person is still responsible for their actions while smoking pot, but our Govt would have you believe it is the most evil and vile act a person can take. The choice to disobey the dictates is an indication that Stage 3 is coming. Often in Stage 2 an order will be given to no longer spread information that is not "approved". Again, this Stage of a revolution is highly suseptible to external interference. Protestors and those who genuinely support a balanced power between Govt and People are again silenced.

Laws are selectively enforced for a reason. Massive bodies of law are enacted for a reason. When you gather the wrong brand of attention, you risk death at the hands of state lapdogs with badges.

Stage 3 is Violence, and the scenario that most Govts fear.

Not interested in "most" governments, but only the one here. This one does not fear us. We are now apparently looked upon as incidental to Theire plans for the world.

Anarchy in concept is very different than the way it behaves.

Human history says otherwise. Anarchy is a way of life, which necessitates a way of thinking. PEOPLE behave atrociously. People fail, not "anarchy". This may seem picking of nits, but I assure you it is centrally important and fundamental.

Total anarchy is much like a vacuum where something will rush in because the people want an end to the very thing they created in the first place.

An issue of mindset. The meaner's mind is so hopelessly poisoned with tacit assumptions of monumental insanity that I see no obvious way that they are going to come to their senses. I may be grossly mistaken on this point and will readily admit it if someone can provide a compelling argument to the contrary. The only way I see people coming back to sense is under circumstances that make clear the immediate nature of their predicament, which would have by then become so severe that the imposition by those circumstance of the choice between living and dying becomes evident to all but perhaps the most intransigently stoopid among us.

Take out Dianne Feinstein with violence and the risk is she will be replaced with Hitler.

Hand-wringing reason fail here, pal. Bus accidentally runs over your child and perhaps the new Hitler arises because your baby wasn't there to befriend him when all others shunned him. It benefits one nothing to go through life like this. Before long you have no stomach lining of which to speak.

The violent Stage of a Revolution needs to have a very clearly defined set of goals for those who are still confused.

I strongly agree here. It is the absence of clear and unequivocal goals that has set so many nobly intended ventures to run awry and amok. Just look at the wars in Eye-Rack and Afghanistan. "Mission accomplished"... in microcosm, perhaps, but not on the broader strategic level, which is why we're still there and the one nation is now busily imploding.

This is one of the primary reasons why the Declaration of Independence was written. It is Informational and provided a clear set of goals. Very few have read the Declaration in its entirety, but in its time, was much more widely read and understood.

We still have it and it may still serve its purpose, which is perennial.

Violence also heavily operates on the Broken Window Fallacy.

Stated too categorically. You need to narrow this a good bit.

The Revolutionaries that do not clearly understand the numerous aspects of the situation are at risk of destroying the very civilization they are trying to save, and unfortunately, seems to be exactly where we are headed.

While I agree with the first part, and while I recognize the potential for the second part, the latter is not quite a foregone conclusion.

Another factor in all this is how will the knowledge of proper governance, human relations, and economics will be put into action in the aftermath of hanging Obama and the rest, en masse, by their necks until they stop twitching. The architecture of the post-fight order should have been worked out well in advance of throwing the first punch. But who is going to work it out? We are so poisoned with bad assumptions about what works and what does not that I do not trust for the briefest moment that we will be able to come to proper and broad consensus. Should we shove the "right" solution down everyone's throats? I don't know, and I mean that very seriously. I see the potential hazards, but if you know what is right... what do you do with those take a crap on your ideas? Problems like this illustrate why America is such an immense miracle.

Our citizens will revolt, not against Abuses of Power, but demand an even bigger and more pervasive System of Power than we had before.

Sadly, I cannot argue against this as being one of the most likely outcomes. The meaner is a dangerously ignorant asshole by any rational standard.

Knowledge can either free a society, or completely enslave it. If knowledge is controlled, it can be used to keep a populus dumbed down to the point where their actions inadvertently cause more problems than the ones they are revolting against. But knowledge of the Limitations of Power can keep those who hold such Power in check in order to maintain the Balance between the People and their Govt. This Knowledge can even prevent Violence from taking place to begin with. Knowledge is more powerful than Violence and the Pen truly is mightier than the Sword.

So what is your solution?

Violent Revolution, although sometimes very necessary, should be avoided AT ALL COSTS.

Disagree. One does not allow the rapist to have his way just to avoid violence. One takes out her pistol and shoots the life out of him without compunction, equivocation, or hesitation.

I get your ideas, but they need better semantic structure.