EVs can't work, and are just stepping stones to banning all personal transportation

[CaptUSA]

Coal, oil, and natural gas received $5.9 trillion in subsidies in 2020 — or roughly $11 million every minute — according to a new analysis from the International Monetary Fund.
https://e360.yale.edu/digest/fossil-fuels-received-5-9-trillion-in-subsidies-in-2020-report-finds

Really, quoting the IMF?!! Lol.

Listen, I've been VERY adamant in here that all subsidies need to end, including those for fossil fuels. The largest real subsidy being our military interventionism to fix the oil markets. But what the IMF is doing here is COMPLETELY disingenuous!

Explicit subsidies accounted for only 8 percent of the total. The remaining 92 percent were implicit subsidies, which took the form of tax breaks or, to a much larger degree, health and environmental damages that were not priced into the cost of fossil fuels, according to the analysis.

"Health and environmental damages"... Interesting. They NEVER calculate the health and environmental benefits that more than offset those "damages". Climate-related deaths and illnesses have never been lower thanks to fossil fuels. Low-cost energy is responsible for a 98% reduction in climate-related deaths. Just think of what the air was like in big cities prior to fossil fuels. Manure everywhere, wood smoke billowing, no plastics to store food... the list goes on. But the IMF has an agenda here.

As someone who has done the research here as part of my job, I will say that a price of carbon is warranted. The problem is that when you accurately price out what the cost of carbon should be, it's so low to make any sort of impact. The harm done per ton of carbon emissions is decimal dust compared to the cost of production or use.

 

[A Son of Liberty]

Coal, oil, and natural gas received $5.9 trillion in subsidies in 2020 — or roughly $11 million every minute — according to a new analysis from the International Monetary Fund.
https://e360.yale.edu/digest/fossil-fuels-received-5-9-trillion-in-subsidies-in-2020-report-finds

Pardon me for not reading the link, but (knowing the playbook) tax breaks do not equal subsidies.

Maybe I'm wrong and really governments are giving trillions of dollars to O&G companies and I just somehow missed it, but I'm guessing that's the angle, here.

ETA: Sorry, [MENTION=30558]CaptUSA[/MENTION] beat me to it! And brought the receipts!

 

[A Son of Liberty]

"Health and environmental damages"... Interesting. They NEVER calculate the health and environmental benefits that more than offset those "damages". Climate-related deaths and illnesses have never been lower thanks to fossil fuels. Low-cost energy is responsible for a 98% reduction in climate-related deaths. Just think of what the air was like in big cities prior to fossil fuels. Manure everywhere, wood smoke billowing, no plastics to store food... the list goes on. But the IMF has an agenda here.

Take a stroll thru old town Glasgow, and note the black soot that stains so many of the old sandstone buildings. That ain't from oil and NG... that's from the coal and wood smoke that heated and powered the city through the 19th and early 20th centuries.

It frustrates me to no end how oblivious people today are of the fact that O&G bi-products have made human civilization and life so immeasurably more comfortable and longer-lasting... humanity is literally - LITERALLY - choking the goose that laid the golden egg.

 

[ClaytonB]

Listen, I've been VERY adamant in here that all subsidies need to end, including those for fossil fuels. The largest real subsidy being our military interventionism to fix the oil markets.

CaptUSA wins the thread...

/thread

Everyone, time to go home, this thread is over.

Bye.

 

[pcosmar]

Take a stroll thru old town Glasgow, and note the black soot that stains so many of the old sandstone buildings. That ain't from oil and NG... that's from the coal and wood smoke that heated and powered the city through the 19th and early 20th centuries.

It frustrates me to no end how oblivious people today are of the fact that O&G bi-products have made human civilization and life so immeasurably more comfortable and longer-lasting... humanity is literally - LITERALLY - choking the goose that laid the golden egg.

I grew up on a Coal Dock.. Refueling Lake Freighters. Coal heat in the house.

Times Change..Sail was replaced by steam,,and then oil,, and now a few are Nuclear.

Lime Island Michigan was deemed "Contaminated",, and has been turned into a Park.

 

[ClaytonB]

tax breaks do not equal subsidies.

 

[Madison320]

Current energy supply meets current demand. If demand grows, supply will grow to meet it. If the demand is for green energy, then that is what will be supplied.

Unless the government interferes too much. There's always a point where government interference becomes too much and the suppliers stop supplying. The gas lines in the 1970s for example.

That being said I don't believe the govt is intentionally going to keep people from driving. Politicians want votes.

 

[A Son of Liberty]

Not sure what to tell ya, guy. A tax break is not a subsidy. It's just not.

 

[A Son of Liberty]

I grew up on a Coal Dock.. Refueling Lake Freighters. Coal heat in the house.

Times Change..Sail was replaced by steam,,and then oil,, and now a few are Nuclear.

Lime Island Michigan was deemed "Contaminated",, and has been turned into a Park.

Okay?

 

[ClaytonB]

Not sure what to tell ya, guy. A tax break is not a subsidy. It's just not.

 

[AngryCanadian]

Do they know that EVs dont work well in winter, cold climates?

 

[pcosmar]

Do they know that EVs dont work well in winter, cold climates?

https://www.taigamotors.com/products/nomad

https://www.aurorapowertrains.com/

 

[AngryCanadian]

https://www.taigamotors.com/products/nomad

https://www.aurorapowertrains.com/

That is just for snowmobiling.

 

[A Son of Liberty]

At least you spared us an unbearably long-winded, meandering reply.

 

[acptulsa]

That is just for snowmobiling.

So... You don't think it'll work on anything else?

 

[CaptUSA]

Here's a thought...

Has anyone added up the subsidies to the EV industry?

I can make this happen.

There's Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act (IIJA) [Also, marketed as the Bi-Partisan Infrastructure Law (BIL) by government officials, by the way]
There's the Inflation Reduction Act (IRA)
There's the VW Mitigation Trust Fund from the Volkswagen frame job
There's the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative (RGII)
Utility Ratepayer programs
Many states find money for programs in other areas of their budgets
Local municipalities and city investments
There are also "pseudo-subsidies" where speculative loans are given out because they're relying on the other subsidies

I can get people working on finding that number, but I may be out of a job for asking the question

 

[AngryCanadian]

So... You don't think it'll work on anything else?

You're actually defending EVs?

 

[CaptUSA]

You're actually defending EVs?

Nothing wrong with running your vehicle on electric. The right tool for the right job, you know. They have their place. I think we object to the manner in which the market is being distorted and the propaganda campaigns designed to rob people.

 

[Occam's Banana]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to A Son of Liberty again.

Not sure what to tell ya, guy. A tax break is not a subsidy. It's just not.

Why, of course it is.

And the reduction of a spending increase is a spending cut.

And trans-women are women.

And freedom is slavery.

And so on and so forth.

 

[TheTexan]

Just put some ski's on either side and problem solved