EVs can't work, and are just stepping stones to banning all personal transportation

[TheCount]

You're arguing the government position. And the government position is, everyone must.

Please point out where I advocated that.

 

[acptulsa]

Please point out where I advocated that.

Still trying to pretend I put words in your mouth, so you can play your little victim card? Why don't you just point out where I said you advocated anything at all?

I said you argued the government position, and in the context of the conversation, that's exactly what you did--government can put its fat thumb on the scale and supply will magically appear (never mind that consumers will have to foot the bill for development). You argued that position, end of sentence. I did not say you advocated it. Indeed, I said just the opposite, that you were nebulous, so you could provoke the reaction you were trolling for and play the victim card. You don't be nebulous by advocating. It's possible to be nebulous while regurgitating the argument. But you can't do that and advocate, too.

So here's your backfire, and I hope you enjoy it. Why don't you stop putting words in my mouth, troll?

 

[nobody's_hero]

When automobiles were invented, the government did not immediately order all horses to be slaughtered. But that seems to be the equivalent of what they're trying to do today.

 

[ClaytonB]

It's no different than, say, fusion. Right now you have to put more energy into a fusion plant than you get out the other side. A future advance may change that. If it does, then we'll be having this conversation all over again about yet another energy revolution.

Well, nuclear power has been viable for many decades, it is used to great advantage in France, but we have a big scam surrounding that, so the real reason it's "inefficient" is, as always, politics. Gotta love how DC ruins literally everything.

Economies of scale matter regarding the power generation itself. Right now we're using millions of tiny generators to move cars around. Your car engine is hilariously inefficient compared to a power plant. It's orders of magnitude cheaper to make the HP-equivalent of your car in a natural gas plant vs. your car's engine.

Energy-efficiency is only a means to an end. A parade is a massive energy-sink, but we put on parades because people enjoy them. It is human ends which are the final measure of "efficiency". This is what the Borg-mind Left cannot comprehend. The real problem with petroleum vehicles, for the Left, is that they empower the individual. And all of that self-determination doesn't promote the Woke Borg Hivemind....

... eventually that alternative method would become viable or dominant even absent subsidy.

... And Other Fairy Tales

 

[acptulsa]

... And Other Fair Tales

I know you weren't trying to say fairy tales. People live happily ever after in fairy tales. Nobody lives happily ever after in planned economies.

Oh, wait, you're right. He said, absent subsidies. Hm. Once upon a time, er... Must have been before recorded history, because I can't find a single real world example.

 

[Occam's Banana]

Energy-efficiency is only a means to an end. A parade is a massive energy-sink, but we put on parades because people enjoy them. It is human ends which are the final measure of "efficiency". This is what the Borg-mind Left cannot comprehend. The real problem with petroleum vehicles, for the Left, is that they empower the individual. And all of that self-determination doesn't promote the Woke Borg Hivemind....

Shut up and eat your crickets, prole.

 

[ClaytonB]

I know you weren't trying to say fairy tales. People live happily ever after in fairy tales. Nobody lives happily ever after in planned economies.

Oh, wait, you're right. He said, absent subsidies. Hm. Once upon a time, er... Must have been before recorded history, because I can't find a single real world example.

Dang typo. Edited.

 

[acptulsa]

Dang typo. Edited.

You typed it right. Autoincorrect is to blame.

Dang the coders. Present company excepted, of course.

Remember when autoincorrect didn't presume to change anything, it just made suggestions? Those were the good old days. If Mark Twain had all the modern inconveniences when he was writing all that regional dialect in The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, his computer would have landed on the lawn--along with all the pieces of the window.

 

[ClaytonB]

Shut up and eat your crickets, prole.

1 McCricket coming right up, super-size with soyfries and a Mt. Dow...

 

[Anti Federalist]

[MENTION=3169]Anti Federalist[/MENTION]

Check out "Aptera".. Disregard and Ignore the "green" propaganda.. and look at it from an Engineering standpoint.

It is designed with Max Efficiency in mind,,and does 0-60 in 3.6.

https://aptera.us/

Been watching development since it had a small gas motor getting 200 mpg.

It is very close to Production.

Affordable and Built to Last. and a Right to Repair as policy.

The fact that it has onboard ICE charging changes the whole game.

VW was ready to introduce a diesel/electric true hybrid, using Siemens control systems (which I am very familiar with), almost ten years ago now, that got 200 mpg.

The government killed diesels, and here we are.

Thanks for the link, I'll check them out.

 

[acptulsa]

Thanks for the link, I'll check them out.

It is interesting tech. Sorry, Pete, but I'm no fan of its looks. The best thing about it is three wheels. Legally, that makes it a motorcycle, and that gets it out from under a ton of incredibly onerous and stupid regulations.

Yes, AF, three wheels is enough, if your center of gravity is down nice and low.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Energy-efficiency is only a means to an end. A parade is a massive energy-sink, but we put on parades because people enjoy them. It is human ends which are the final measure of "efficiency". This is what the Borg-mind Left cannot comprehend. The real problem with petroleum vehicles, for the Left, is that they empower the individual. And all of that self-determination doesn't promote the Woke Borg Hivemind....

+ rep.

That is precisely what infuriates the Marxist left.

As with everything else with those demons, war is peace.

Nothing promotes egalitarianism, "equity" or individuality more than the freedom to go where you want, when you want.

Everything the Marxist Borg says it's in favor of.

From Robert Moses' crackpot progressive road building schemes, (Yes, nominally a Republican, Moses spent his life exercising power under progressive Democrat machine politics in NYC. And yes, the wokesters are right about this: he was a racist who deliberately designed roads to keep blacks away from beaches, and parks and such. Although I imagine more than a few shanty Irish and his fellow poor Jews found themselves blocked out as well.) to Ralph Nader's fictions, to the climate change horshit of today, the Marxist left has hated the "car for everyman" since the very first Model T rolled off the assembly line in Detroit.

 

[Anti Federalist]

It is interesting tech. Sorry, Pete, but I'm no fan of its looks. The best thing about it is three wheels. Legally, that makes it a motorcycle, and that gets it out from under a ton of incredibly onerous and stupid regulations.

Yes, AF, three wheels is enough, if your center of gravity is down nice and low.

 

[pcosmar]

When automobiles were invented, the government did not immediately order all horses to be slaughtered. But that seems to be the equivalent of what they're trying to do today.

It is being Pushed,,and I am opposed to that..

Build a superior Car,, and let the Market Decide..

There are a LOT of Teslas on the road,, and several Producers trying to copy that.

 

[pcosmar]

It is interesting tech. Sorry, Pete, but I'm no fan of its looks. The best thing about it is three wheels. Legally, that makes it a motorcycle, and that gets it out from under a ton of incredibly onerous and stupid regulations.

Yes, AF, three wheels is enough, if your center of gravity is down nice and low.

It looks like the stuff I was sketching as a teen. It is very "Form Follows Function".



Three wheels is less Rolling Resistance than 4.

 

[TheCount]

I said you argued the government position, and in the context of the conversation, that's exactly what you did--government can put its fat thumb on the scale and supply will magically appear (never mind that consumers will have to foot the bill for development).

I genuinely have no idea what your point here is. It's incoherent.

Do you think that government can't put its finger on the scale of the economy?

It can. It has. It is.


Through subsidy, tax break, and regulation (primarily CAFE) it has incentivized both EV usage and green energy. The supply (quantity supplied) demand (quantity demanded) for both are undoubtedly higher than they would be otherwise.

Do you disagree? Do you think that's not happening, that it won't happen? That it can't?



Unless you mean that the government position is... physics? Math? Logic? Reason?

 

[ClaytonB]

+ rep.

That is precisely what infuriates the Marxist left.

As with everything else with those demons, war is peace.

Nothing promotes egalitarianism, "equity" or individuality more than the freedom to go where you want, when you want.

Everything the Marxist Borg says it's in favor of.

From Robert Moses' crackpot progressive road building schemes, (Yes, nominally a Republican, Moses spent his life exercising power under progressive Democrat machine politics in NYC. And yes, the wokesters are right about this: he was a racist who deliberately designed roads to keep blacks away from beaches, and parks and such. Although I imagine more than a few shanty Irish and his fellow poor Jews found themselves blocked out as well.) to Ralph Nader's fictions, to the climate change hor$#@! of today, the Marxist left has hated the "car for everyman" since the very first Model T rolled off the assembly line in Detroit.

Yep. Here's the shortcut -- think of a daycare or kindergarten. Anything a kindergarten teacher would naturally want to do in the course of managing the kids, is precisely the kind of public-policy measure that the Marxists will always be in favor of (or actively engineer). Fences to keep them in. Check. CCTVs to track them at all times. Check. Daily roll calls. Check. A constant bustle of pointless, assigned activities. Check. You get the idea.

Of course, to scare us into the arms of the "reasonable" Marxists, the globalist Left also has to keep trained attack dogs to scare the living snot out of us. The deep ecologists are not like kindergarten teachers, they're more like the kennel operators at a pet cemetery. They want us kenneled, (physically sedated is preferable), ready to be put down and fed into the incinerator. "Don't worry, children, the attack dogs are behind the fence and can't hurt you. Recess is over and it's time to come inside -- Mx. Furrilove is going to read you all a gender-fluid story and then we're each going to make a tutu for ourselves out of paper plates and glitter!!"

 

[acptulsa]

I genuinely...

I don't believe you.

 

[CaptUSA]

The main driver for the downward trend in price of renewables is technology.

Nope. The MAIN driver is subsidy. There are direct subsidies for "renewable" technologies and there are indirect subsidies that increase the costs of grid operations by adding their intermittency on the grid. Without those subsidies, there is no way wind or solar could be a profitable grid resource. And it's not even close.

It IS possible now, through technology, that wind and solar can be the cheaper alternative for local energy production in off-grid situations, though. No need to throw the baby out with the bath water. But the ideologues pushing these policies don't care about the costs imposed on non-participants. They want what they want and they don't care about the harm done. And they completely ignore the shared benefits of low-cost energy.

As economist, Anthony Downs put it, “The elite’s environmental deterioration is often the common man’s improved standard of living.”

Through subsidy, tax break, and regulation (primarily CAFE) it has incentivized both EV usage and green energy. The supply (quantity supplied) demand (quantity demanded) for both are undoubtedly higher than they would be otherwise.

As typical with The Count, he finally gets around to contradicting his original point. (seriously, it's like nailing Jell-O to the wall with this poster)


This entire EV industry is a scam to get other peoples' money - not through market transactions, but through government.

 

[pcosmar]

Nope. The MAIN driver is subsidy

Coal, oil, and natural gas received $5.9 trillion in subsidies in 2020 — or roughly $11 million every minute — according to a new analysis from the International Monetary Fund.
https://e360.yale.edu/digest/fossil-fuels-received-5-9-trillion-in-subsidies-in-2020-report-finds