Even if you leave the US, you still have to pay taxes

[Howard_Roark]

The US is basically the only country in the world that will still tax you even if you leave and go somewhere else. Virtually every other country has a form of territorial taxation where if you aren’t a resident, you aren’t subject to paying taxes. So if a British citizen decided he wants to go live in Hong Kong, he isn’t subject to British taxation. In contrast, the roughly 5 million Americans living abroad have to continue to pay taxes to the IRS. The only way out of this is to renounce citizenship, and even then if you have enough money they will charge you an exit tax that is the equivalent of selling all your assets worldwide and paying tax on them. Something about this system just grates me the wrong way, because it essentially implies that US citizens are in way assets or property of the US government and even if they leave the country they still have to pay taxes.

 

[satchelmcqueen]

yep

 

[Schiff_FTW]

http://www.allgov.com/US_and_the_World/ViewNews/Tax_Evaders_Renounce_US_Citizenship_120124

Tax Evaders Renounce U.S. Citizenship
Tuesday, January 24, 2012

Rather than deal with the complexities of U.S. tax law, Americans living overseas are increasingly renouncing their citizenship in order to avoid paying their income taxes.

According to National Taxpayer Advocate Nina E. Olson, approximately 4,000 people gave up their citizenship from fiscal year 2005 to FY 2010. Renunciations increased sharply within the past three years, from 146 in FY 2008 to 1,534 in FY 2010. And during the first two quarters of FY 2011 alone, 1,024 Americans ditched their citizenship

The advocate’s report cites two reasons for the renunciations. First, many taxpayers abroad say they are confused “by the complex legal and reporting requirements they face and are overwhelmed by the prospect of having to comply with them.”

Second, others have accused the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) of “bait and switch” tactics, telling Americans they can resolve their unpaid taxes under an “older voluntary disclosure programs with the promise of reduced penalties, only to find themselves subjected to steeper penalties.”

According to tax attorney Andrew Mitchel, another factor has been a change of law in 2008 that means “non-U.S. citizen, nonresidents can now annually visit the U.S. for 120 or more days without becoming taxed as U.S. residents (under the pre-2008 rules, visits to the U.S. for more than 30 days during any of the 10 years following expatriation caused the individual to be treated as a U.S. resident for that year).”
-Noel Brinkerhoff

 

[mrsat_98]

I have not filed or paid in over twenty years, yawn.

 

[Revolution_Ready]

There is a 95K exemption or 180K exemption for married couples. Those numbers might not be exact but they are pretty close. They change every year. So unless your making over that you do not pay taxes here. So if you work out of Dubai, where there is no income tax, and make less than 180K if married, you could keep everything you make. Unless your like me and own rental properties in the US, then it gets complicated.

 

[Revolution_Ready]

I have not filed or paid in over twenty years, yawn.

How are you getting away with that? I'm guess because it isn't enough to make it worth them finding you?

 

[DogLover2113]

That is a bit if info I didn't know. Now I know what to say to the sheeple when they tell me "If you don't like it leave the country". That argument that a lot of them throw around annoys the heck out of me. Give me your freedoms, give me your liberties, give me your money and if you don't like it leave.

 

[Danke]

We have tax treaties with most other countries. Paying the US tax rate can many times be a better deal than paying the local tax.

Just being a US citizen does not make one liable for the income tax.

 

[RickyJ]

The US is basically the only country in the world that will still tax you even if you leave and go somewhere else. Virtually every other country has a form of territorial taxation where if you aren’t a resident, you aren’t subject to paying taxes. So if a British citizen decided he wants to go live in Hong Kong, he isn’t subject to British taxation. In contrast, the roughly 5 million Americans living abroad have to continue to pay taxes to the IRS. The only way out of this is to renounce citizenship, and even then if you have enough money they will charge you an exit tax that is the equivalent of selling all your assets worldwide and paying tax on them. Something about this system just grates me the wrong way, because it essentially implies that US citizens are in way assets or property of the US government and even if they leave the country they still have to pay taxes.

I never signed up to be a "citizen" of the USA, I was just born here. I am not going to pay for something I never agreed to. At one time I use to love this country, and was very patriotic, now that I know its true character and the evil people who rule it, I hate it. Ron Paul is a bright shining star in the midst of an corrupt evil regime. He and his supporters give me hope that there is a lot of good to be salvaged from the USA and quite possibly, start over again. Those that quit on this cause are quitting on freedom, that is something I can never do.

 

[Czolgosz]

I never signed up to be a "citizen" of the USA, I was just born here. I am not going to pay for something I never agreed to. At one time I use to love this country, and was very patriotic, now that I know its true character and the evil people who rule it, I hate it. Ron Paul is a bright shining star in the midst of an corrupt evil regime. He and his supporters give me hope that there is a lot of good to be salvaged from the USA and quite possibly, start over again. Those that quit on this cause are quitting on freedom, that is something I can never do.

I used to get chills attending live events where the National Anthem is sung.

 

[onlyrp]

http://www.allgov.com/US_and_the_World/ViewNews/Tax_Evaders_Renounce_US_Citizenship_120124

Tax Evaders Renounce U.S. Citizenship
Tuesday, January 24, 2012

Rather than deal with the complexities of U.S. tax law, Americans living overseas are increasingly renouncing their citizenship in order to avoid paying their income taxes.

According to National Taxpayer Advocate Nina E. Olson, approximately 4,000 people gave up their citizenship from fiscal year 2005 to FY 2010. Renunciations increased sharply within the past three years, from 146 in FY 2008 to 1,534 in FY 2010. And during the first two quarters of FY 2011 alone, 1,024 Americans ditched their citizenship

The advocate’s report cites two reasons for the renunciations. First, many taxpayers abroad say they are confused “by the complex legal and reporting requirements they face and are overwhelmed by the prospect of having to comply with them.”

Second, others have accused the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) of “bait and switch” tactics, telling Americans they can resolve their unpaid taxes under an “older voluntary disclosure programs with the promise of reduced penalties, only to find themselves subjected to steeper penalties.”

According to tax attorney Andrew Mitchel, another factor has been a change of law in 2008 that means “non-U.S. citizen, nonresidents can now annually visit the U.S. for 120 or more days without becoming taxed as U.S. residents (under the pre-2008 rules, visits to the U.S. for more than 30 days during any of the 10 years following expatriation caused the individual to be treated as a U.S. resident for that year).”
-Noel Brinkerhoff

renouncing your citizenship is probably OK if you don't intend to come back, it's highly unlikely, unless you're just plain rich, that they'll try to catch you in the foreign country.

 

[onlyrp]

That is a bit if info I didn't know. Now I know what to say to the sheeple when they tell me "If you don't like it leave the country". That argument that a lot of them throw around annoys the heck out of me. Give me your freedoms, give me your liberties, give me your money and if you don't like it leave.

No, they can't do much to you if you leave and never come back, just don't leave any goodies here for them to take. So the argument of "leave if you hate it here" still works quite well. And as some have said here, sometimes the US taxes are a better deal than in the foreign country.

 

[onlyrp]

I never signed up to be a "citizen" of the USA, I was just born here. I am not going to pay for something I never agreed to. At one time I use to love this country, and was very patriotic, now that I know its true character and the evil people who rule it, I hate it. Ron Paul is a bright shining star in the midst of an corrupt evil regime. He and his supporters give me hope that there is a lot of good to be salvaged from the USA and quite possibly, start over again. Those that quit on this cause are quitting on freedom, that is something I can never do.

do you disobey and ignore everything you didn't sign up for and dislike? Do you allow everybody to do the same?

 

[Pericles]

Not only do you have the demand that you fill out a US income tax form while living outside of the US, there is also the incompetence of the IRS to add to the experience. The IRS will conveniently forget to apply the provisions of the tax treaties that benefit the taxpayer, and demand additional tax and penalties based on the Internal Revenue code, rather than the provisions of the tax treaty which supercede the IRS code and regulations. Then you have to file with the Tax Court (in the US of course), to get the idiots at the IRS to realize that they are about to get slammed using their own rules against them. The IRS then removes the tax but not the penalty on the tax you didn't owe in the first place as a settlement offer.

Ask me how I know this - happens every year.

 

[oyarde]

Not only do you have the demand that you fill out a US income tax form while living outside of the US, there is also the incompetence of the IRS to add to the experience. The IRS will conveniently forget to apply the provisions of the tax treaties that benefit the taxpayer, and demand additional tax and penalties based on the Internal Revenue code, rather than the provisions of the tax treaty which supercede the IRS code and regulations. Then you have to file with the Tax Court (in the US of course), to get the idiots at the IRS to realize that they are about to get slammed using their own rules against them. The IRS then removes the tax but not the penalty on the tax you didn't owe in the first place as a settlement offer.

Ask me how I know this - happens every year.

Insane , how many years have you been there ?

 

[mrsat_98]

How are you getting away with that? I'm guess because it isn't enough to make it worth them finding you?

Beat the state in the tax appeal board without an attorney over sales tax, the state asked that I be dismissed and the Secretary of the Revenue Department resigned. Keep the same attitude and the IRS advised me to write not liable on the form if I am not required to file. Have not heard from them in twenty years in spite of the erronous 1099's they get. In the event something get withheld thet have been promptly returning it after writing not liable on the form. It been years since I let them get a dime.

 

[onlyrp]

Beat the state in the tax appeal board without an attorney over sales tax, the state asked that I be dismissed and the Secretary of the Revenue Department resigned. Keep the same attitude and the IRS advised me to write not liable on the form if I am not required to file. Have not heard from them in twenty years in spite of the erronous 1099's they get. In the event something get withheld thet have been promptly returning it after writing not liable on the form. It been years since I let them get a dime.

where do you live?

 

[Pericles]

Insane , how many years have you been there ?

Moved to Switzerland in January of 1997.

 

[Athan]

Beat the state in the tax appeal board without an attorney over sales tax, the state asked that I be dismissed and the Secretary of the Revenue Department resigned. Keep the same attitude and the IRS advised me to write not liable on the form if I am not required to file. Have not heard from them in twenty years in spite of the erronous 1099's they get. In the event something get withheld thet have been promptly returning it after writing not liable on the form. It been years since I let them get a dime.

You have achieved the rank of "Legendary Hero"
Rank achievement: "It's MY money, not theIRS"