Ethics professor says Jesus would be a Dem.

[RonPaulVolunteer]

Jesus WAS/IS a libertarian...

 

[Truth Warrior]

Now if you want to see something neat about the development of religion... re-read the old testament. Take note of the focus.
There was no concept of "After-life" until later... as in your rewards were here on earth.
You did good. Good bless you here on earth. He'd give you your own kingdom.
You did bad. God punished you here on earth. God destroyed your city and turned you to stone.

The focus later changes as the years progressed.

It was an eye opener to me, when i went back through the entire bible in these collegiate studies, with new eyes.

I had 5 years of sociological and political studies before these theological classes.
With new lenses, it was amazing what i could see.. as far as religious/cultural changes through the bible.

Jesus was definitely unique. and definitely went against all previous theological thought prior to him in the Jewish traditions.
Probably why they didn't like him.

That is also where the theory came from that he studied in the east during the missing 30 years of his life.
Not that it was every written that he did that... but because he brought to the area a new philosophy that could have been taken from a civilization that existed at the same time, just furthur away.

We'd probably best leave it at that. or else we'll be getting into a whole "big thing" going on here.

Trust me!

Thanks!

 

[RonPaulVolunteer]

If you look at his philosophy seriously, it fits more into the truest meaning of the word communist.
His vision was solely of the heaven we are trying to obtain, thus earthly possessions are nothing.
"Give up your worldly possession and follow me" was his test of faith.

What he practiced in his life... wasn't capitalism, it was communalism or communism,

Now before the flame wars begin, let me state, this isn't ment to be insulting, just a political analysis of his teaching.

This is something we studied on the collegiate level at a Baptist University. (though i'm not Baptist in the least I studied there and was impressed by the openess on the Profs)

So, no he was no Dem., Dem are socialist, which is completely different from true communism, where there is no government. True communism is closer to the "Utopia" scenario. That could only exist in "another world". The one Jesus spoke of.. that was to come.

What does he think of property? "Give to Ceasars what is Ceasars". Gives the impression that he isn't against property, its just isn't important for salvation?

What a CROCK of SHIT. Read the words of Jesus in the Bible instead of popular opinion of Jesus.

His message was overwhelmingly about life here on THIS earth, NOT about some far off place/heaven.

The fact that Jesus claims to be GOD, and yet forces no one to follow Him, is about as anti-Commo as one could possibly get.

His encouragement to ONE PERSON to sell all they had and give it to the poor, is not a precedent for how we are all supposed to live. The guy was a seriously wealthy materialist who's life purpose was the accumulation of wealth to the point that it was a hindrance to him relating to God, it had become an idol.

I just love how the world loves to quote Jesus out of context and make Him something he was often the opposite of. Jesus was the master libertarian.

 

[torchbearer]

We'd probably best leave it at that. or else we'll be getting into a whole "big thing" going on here.

Trust me!

Thanks!

I know. I wish people could discuss this stuff without getting emotionally attached, but I will try to restrain from putting anymore of my thoughts out on this topic, though, it is very interesting.

 

[torchbearer]

What a CROCK of SHIT. Read the words of Jesus in the Bible instead of popular opinion of Jesus.

I did read the words, I read the words of many versions... of his many words.
I know. I wanted him to be libertarian too.
He really had no interest in over-throwing the empire, or having rome give civil rights.
But- if it makes your world a better place, i will just agree with you. Yes, yes, Jesus was the greatest libertarian ever.

 

[acptulsa]

The fact that Jesus claims to be GOD, and yet forces no one to follow Him, is about as anti-Commo as one could possibly get.

The man never said he was a totalitarian Stalinist. He said right in that post that he didn't mean it in the political sense. He just said that Jesus believed that the more successful members of a community should reach out to those less fortunate, that's all. Jesus also said we should turn the other cheek, and that a soft answer turns away wrath.

Handy philosophy for preventing misunderstandings from becoming actual fights.

 

[LittleLightShining]

I'm still sticking with anarchy. Any other system indicates law and the only law Jesus gave was to love your neighbor as your self. Following that concept there is no need for any other law. If Jesus was a communist he would have had to advocate for orderly distribution which would facilitate the need to have guidelines(laws) in place. There is always the possibility that any system could be corrupted whereas anarchy can not be corrupted because there is no system.

 

[The One]

I agree. Jesus would definitely be a member of the party of Bill Clinton.

 

[lynnf]

duh!

I took an ethics class a few years ago. One of my classmates asked how Jesus would affiliate himself politically. Our professor said he would lean Democratic. Nothing else was said about it. If I had known of Dr. Paul and his great Libertarian teachings at the time, I would have argued his answer. As I look back on it, I realize the professor didn't quite understand coercion vs. actual charity.

My question is: What are your thoughts on Jesus's possible political affiliation?

he's not here right now, so no political party

when he comes back, he will be THE law, no political party needed!

lynnf

 

[torchbearer]

I'm still sticking with anarchy. Any other system indicates law and the only law Jesus gave was to love your neighbor as your self. Following that concept there is no need for any other law. If Jesus was a communist he would have had to advocate for orderly distribution which would facilitate the need to have guidelines(laws) in place. There is always the possibility that any system could be corrupted whereas anarchy can not be corrupted because there is no system.

A monestary is a communist system. There really is no government only a divine.
A monestary is not anarchist because it has no government, in order to make sure enough is produced to sustain everyone, some local order is agreed upon to provide for all.
You could say Jesus was anarchist in the sense that he didn't really worry about earthly governments. But he did speak of a kingdom in heaven. And that implied order and rule. As in a monarchy with God as king.
So, yes, and no. To the anarchist argument.

 

[TheTruth]

Ummm... NO

Jesus would not be for abortion.

 

[torchbearer]

Ummm... NO

Jesus would not be for abortion.

Well in defense of libertarians, not all libertarians are pro-choice. And no libertarian is for force against another person. And no libertarian is for killing babies.
Where the disagreement comes into play is when does one become a human with rights. And the answers to that question is the heart of the debate.
No one in the LP is for killing babies.

 

[LittleLightShining]

A monestary is a communist system. There really is no government only a divine.
A monestary is not anarchist because it has no government, in order to make sure enough is produced to sustain everyone, some local order is agreed upon to provide for all.
You could say Jesus was anarchist in the sense that he didn't really worry about earthly governments. But he did speak of a kingdom in heaven. And that implied order and rule. As in a monarchy with God as king.
So, yes, and no. To the anarchist argument.

Where is the difference between a monastical commune and anarchism, then? People need to organize somewhat, whether it is on the level of family, tribal or other arbitrary grouping, but that doesn't necessarily mean that there is a government persay.

I'm saying that Jesus was an anarchist because "he didn't really worry about earthly governments." His descriptions of a kingdom in Heaven were not descriptions of of a kingdom that anyone on earth could relate to in terms of order and rule.

In parable after parable Jesus describes the Kingdom of God as the dividing of the good and the evil. It is a concept outside of what we humans on this earth can grasp as government. This is why there was no leader sent for the Israelites. But they wanted to be like the other nations and so God gave them judges-- to settle disputes. But they would not be content with God as their ruler. They wanted a man to lead them and make them powerful and feared by the other nations so God gave them a King. This is part of why the Jewish leaders rejected him.

"And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the Kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, 'The Kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or lo there! for behold, the kingdom of God is within you.'" Luke 17:20-21

 

[torchbearer]

Where is the difference between a monastical commune and anarchism, then? People need to organize somewhat, whether it is on the level of family, tribal or other arbitrary grouping, but that doesn't necessarily mean that there is a government persay.

I'm saying that Jesus was an anarchist because "he didn't really worry about earthly governments." His descriptions of a kingdom in Heaven were not descriptions of of a kingdom that anyone on earth could relate to in terms of order and rule.

In parable after parable Jesus describes the Kingdom of God as the dividing of the good and the evil. It is a concept outside of what we humans on this earth can grasp as government. This is why there was no leader sent for the Israelites. But they wanted to be like the other nations and so God gave them judges-- to settle disputes. But they would not be content with God as their ruler. They wanted a man to lead them and make them powerful and feared by the other nations so God gave them a King. This is part of why the Jewish leaders rejected him.

"And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the Kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, 'The Kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or lo there! for behold, the kingdom of God is within you.'" Luke 17:20-21

Actual those are all awesome points. I would love to have these discussion with you in person, we could probably learn a lot from each other.

You'l notice too, that Jesus did not fit their description of the Messiah... because the Messiah would come to be their new earthly king. To overthrow there enslavers. And start his kingdom on earth.

Jesus stated, his kingdom is still to come, so to the jews, this wasn't the messiah of their text.

So now, both the Jews and the Christians are waiting for the victorious Messiah to come to reign over the earth.

An intertesting way to percieve the messianic traditions of the bible. And it ties into the political expectations therein.

 

[weslinder]

Read my sig. Peacenik or not, Jesus wouldn't have supported the gun-grabbers.

 

[DriftWood]

I took an ethics class a few years ago. One of my classmates asked how Jesus would affiliate himself politically. Our professor said he would lean Democratic. Nothing else was said about it. If I had known of Dr. Paul and his great Libertarian teachings at the time, I would have argued his answer. As I look back on it, I realize the professor didn't quite understand coercion vs. actual charity.

My question is: What are your thoughts on Jesus's possible political affiliation?

Well as I see it the early christians where for handouts, sharing and communal living and against usury, profits, and the rich. You dont get much more socialist and anti-capitalist than that. (Then again im a atheist so what do I know

"give to the poor."

"go, sell what you have, and give to the poor."

"it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

"And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves [...] And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves."

Cheers

 

[torchbearer]

Read my sig. Peacenik or not, Jesus wouldn't have supported the gun-grabbers.

DIdn't say he was a hippy. Just communal in philosophy.

 

[acptulsa]

And it ties into the political expectations therein.

Why is it so incredibly difficult to untie religion and politics, anyway? They're apples and oranges but for some reason people seem to believe they come from the same tree. One should be a matter of faith and the other of reason. Instead they both seem to devolve into matters of power. Yuk.

 

[Truth Warrior]

"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." -- Mahatma Gandhi

 

[torchbearer]

Well as I see it the early christians where for handouts, sharing and communal living and against usury, profits, and the rich. You dont get much more socialist and anti-capitalist than that. (Then again im a atheist so what do I know

"give to the poor."

"go, sell what you have, and give to the poor."

"it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

"And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves [...] And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves."

Cheers

Yeh, but those weren't laws forced upon people, but a voluntary path one could take in order to follow in the footsteps of Jesus, both literally in his travels and in our life today.
The key word is voluntary. Where as Socialism is a state enforced. And yes, Jesus was anti-capitalist, he was about the heavenly, not the earthly. A capitalist aquires the earthly.
If your goal is heaven, then why do things that don't pertain to getting heaven matter... is more what i got from his teachings.
But then, go back and read my post on "afterlife" and its origin, then go do some research on it. look at all the rabbit holes it opens up and pick which one you want to dive down next.