Email Database and The Grassroots HQ: Tick,Tock,Tick,Tock......

[goldenequity]

Update No.3

Here is a recap of contributions so far.... for those not wanting to read 14 pages

roxic27

"Here’s the gist of it. The FEC (Federal Election Commission) has a code of rules and regulations that apparently makes the IRS codebook look like nursery rhymes. And, because other groups are not, shall we say, encouraging our campaign it is especially important that we follow the code to perfection. The code mostly deals with money - how it is received by the campaign, how it is used, etc. The tricky part for grassroots campaigns is that our activities must clearly be separate (in general) from the National campaign or someone is gonna end up in a little prison cell with a roommate named Bubba.

What they explained to us is this: They hate it, but they have to live by it. They want, they need for us to do what we’re doing and do more of it.

Do you see what this means? It means we don’t have to wait on the national organization to make decisions. We don’t have to feel stymied because we don’t know what they want. The truth is this: they can’t tell us! It’s not that they don’t want to, it’s just that they aren’t allowed to. So, you and I can promote Dr. Paul with our best efforts. We can coordinate with each other and help each other as we have been doing. And we can do more of it.

That’s the only direction we really need. In the end, there are two campaigns - national and grassroots."​

cujothekitten Moderator

"This should probably be done. One massive mailing list would make communication a lot easier."​

tmg19103

"I for one would be happy ot be part of a communications team to help get ideas out to all the MeetUps and any other grassroots."

"I think where we need a "command and control" is for sharing ideas. We have some great ideas on this board, but how to easily get them to 30,000 plus MeetUp groups?"

"THEN let the MeetUp groups (and their 30,000 members) decide how to use the info/ideas they are sent. "

"what we need is better communication and ways to share info with 30,000 (and growing daily) people FAST."

"let ALL the MeetUp groups know at the same time and let it happen spontaneously. That is the key to grassroots - it has to be a groundswell of people WANTING to do something as opposed to being told to do something."​

ghemminger

"HQ set me an email list of 400+RP leaders I have available"
​

pwnsey

"I'm willing to get some money together to run a sever capable of handling this if someone gets the database and scripts together."​

DjLoTi

"I think this is a good idea. If I could, I'd like to make my radio station a part of such effort."

"The 'Grassroots' HQ has much more freedom and flexibility. This will require a team."​

Andrew76

"I'd only suggest that a major next step up would be a link between all the various forums and meetup groups. One giant email list that people could be a part of, in which, in it's ideal form, would contact everyone. There doesn't need to be any forced organization, but at the same time, there are many people in my meetup group, (at least half, I'd bet) who don't know about this forum, even after I mention it in various emails. This is mostly about communication."​

isufferfromronpaulfever

"Perhaps a formal network that provides an easier means of communication (dedicated IRC server, etc) would be a great start"​

Jennifer Reynolds

"I haven't read this board, but someone asked me what it took to email 676 Meetup members. I was on this board for 11 hours asking for help due to the 25 email max at Meetup. I finally gave up and opened up 11 accounts of my own at Meetup, along with 11 new email addresses so I could do most of the work myself. I ended up with 12 volunteers in 11 hours."​

LibertyEagle

And some of you don't think we have a problem COMMUNICATING with others if we have a need? Geesh.

"how about when Jennifer was trying to do the same with her University idea? I couldn't even assist her, because I was maxed out. I think she finally found the people, but it was an ALL DAY EFFORT to do so and I mean, ALL DAY." [*trying to just EMAIL out to multiple Meet-up groups with a single message].
see Jennifer thread: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=10998&page=6

"All we need is a way to send a simple email out to all the Meetup Organizers. That would be enough. "

"What about a repository for high resolution video? How many times have we heard people on here griping that the only video they could get was from YouTube and the quality was horrible?"

I think one of the guys in the Austin Meetup is working on it. [harvesting meet-up emails] I'll check with them when I get a chance and see how its progressing.
​

Lord Xar

"this is NOT a HQ or a LEADERSHIP or CONTROL type thing.... this would be a bustop for information and ideas and dissemination of the grassroots level..."

"You divide the united states into regions."
"I can set up the site and get the hosting, that is not a big deal, what we need is representatives. Also, lets talk about how to divide the regions."

"let me set this up tonight.. I will set up the site to maintain this.. "​

DIGG TYPE CONCEPT​

Man from La Mancha

"Could an auto program like digg it, send a message out to all meetup groups when the digg hits a certain number of interested individuals of various topics and projects listed? It could be sub grouped for states and counties. Then they would get hold of the people suggested in the article."​

robatsu

"Ultimately, there may have to be some sort of gatekeeper, a digg mechanism, etc, to keep such a network from becoming overloaded with random half baked ideas."

"You see this in, for example, in Apache, where certain ideas have to get enough traction before they become official projects."

"develop enough support for their idea to prove that it was worthy. Without this impedance, filtering, a nationwide network with unlimited access would just become spam, and with it, you get things that you know have some traction already."

"The way to get most meetups informed: First, publicize it on this forum, probably most meetups have at least one member who reads this, publicize that we're setting up a grass roots comm network and looking for points of contact in local meetups that would be relay points for info."

"There are two pieces to this......The first is just some giant mail list, or distribution mechanism, the second is a piece that moderates what would get distributed."
​

Wyurm

"A website with links to various ongoing projects so we can donate to them and so we can participate ----- that would be a very GOOD thing."​

austin356

"Its not necessarily that we need central authority, but rather communication and organization. Central authority is only one way to achieve such."​

Horatio Negersky

"I think that if the main point is communication that we shouldn't add extra levels of administration to this process by creating shell heirarchy after shell heirarchy which takes a group of individuals and makes a group of groups of individuals instead. It's like purposefully installing middlemen."​

DeadheadForPaul

"Contact Frazee. He has asked a number of college students (including one of my friends) to head up efforts on campuses across the country. He has contact info for hundreds of colleges"​

Revolution9

"I can see the need for an indexing of events and requests specific to those events. I can see a need for an email broadcast system for getting the word on important issues out."​

Will
Dabase architect/administrator

"I'm a database guy."​

mdh

I have unmetered 100mbps bandwidth and can throw about 50 gigs of space to start with at this. With about a week's notice (ie - if it grows quickly) I can pull down another ~100mbps of bandwidth and a couple of terabytes of disk space. Just say the word, and we'll roll.

How do you propose harvesting all of those emails without bringing them on board? I don't believe meetup.com makes all email addresses public by default.
​

Suzu

http://ronpaulnetwork.info/forumA forum is available, with a few special features - designed by and for meetup members:
1.) capacity to target email to specific groups of members - e.g. every meetup organizer; every member in a given state or states; etc.
2.) no infiltrators, moles, spies for the opposition - each full member is a verified, active Ron Paul supporter.
3.) a voice-enabled conference room with 200-participant capacity.
4.) private boards and/or groups created on the fly for special projects.
​

danda

all we need is a simple mailing list that meetup.com leaders can subscribe to. So I created one at yahoo groups.
Group home page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ronpau...roots-announce
Group email: [email protected]​

 

[Suzu]

Suzu: stand by.....you have a "forum" format....not sure we want that.K?

A forum, yes, with a few special features - designed by and for meetup members:

1.) capacity to target email to specific groups of members - e.g. every meetup organizer; every member in a given state or states; etc.

2.) no infiltrators, moles, spies for the opposition - each full member is a verified, active Ron Paul supporter.

3.) a voice-enabled conference room with 200-participant capacity.

4.) private boards and/or groups created on the fly for special projects.

http://ronpaulnetwork.info/forum

 

[mdh]

A pal of mine on the IRC chat can hook us up with conference calling on-demand as well if we decide we need it - toll-free or via local access numbers across the US. He owns the systems, so we can have a greater level of control over it and all. This is a real phone system, and doesn't require any special computer hardware or software.
Additionally, we can setup private IRC chat channels for just specific folks. These can be moderated with a pretty fine degree of granularity.

Suzu, how do you vet people? Seems like that'd become a massive undertaking for a large number of people. Is a forum like that useful - maybe... but most of us are already on so many forums and sites lol, I already neglected some that I am signed up to, I don't know that it's in our interests in terms of using activists' time to have to follow *another* forum site.

isufferfromronpaulfever mentioned a dedicated IRC server - I have this already. irc.ronpaul.name.

Will mentioned being a database architect - we could do something like CiviCRM (http://www.civicrm.org) if he wanted to invest the time to manage the data, etc, and I could host this - I have experience adminning it as well, and I have nothing but good things to say about it. It may well solve the majority of our problems in terms of data organization, but the problem of actually gathering the contact info for the people still exists.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Having a more secure site for brainstorming on a project or idea, would be really nice. We used the chat feature of justintv the other day, for part of the work on the latest ad. Not exactly what you could call secure. It worked ok for that, but if the project was more strategic in nature, it wouldn't have been a good idea at all.

 

[mdh]

Having a more secure site for brainstorming on a project or idea, would be really nice. We used the chat feature of justintv the other day, for part of the work on the latest ad. Not exactly what you could call secure. It worked ok for that, but if the project was more strategic in nature, it wouldn't have been a good idea at all.

Yeah, we can setup secure chats pretty easily. Right now the web clients and the instructions for real IRC client users on www.ronpaul.name point folks to a large general Ron Paul chat channel. We can just as easily set something private up, and for those who use a real IRC client such as xchat, they can even connect via SSL. All very easy stuff to do. The hard part is figuring out who to let in, how to publicize the access control measures, etc if you want it to be *really* private.

 

[Suzu]

A pal of mine on the IRC chat can hook us up with conference calling on-demand as well if we decide we need it - toll-free or via local access numbers across the US. He owns the systems, so we can have a greater level of control over it and all. This is a real phone system, and doesn't require any special computer hardware or software.

I've been on a few of the telephone conference calls. The sound quality, compared to what I set up, is terrible, and there's no way to know who's on the call, who wants to speak next, and no orderly fashion to "pass the talking stick", as it were. But my online conference room does have all of the above - plus the capacity to boot anyone who doesn't belong there.

Additionally, we can setup private IRC chat channels for just specific folks. These can be moderated with a pretty fine degree of granularity.

I can do the same.

Suzu, how do you vet people? Seems like that'd become a massive undertaking for a large number of people.

Moderators handle it. Check the forum for an intro.

Is a forum like that useful - maybe... but most of us are already on so many forums and sites lol, I already neglected some that I am signed up to, I don't know that it's in our interests in terms of using activists' time to have to follow *another* forum site.

This is exactly why the RPVN forum was created. All the other forums have a much more casual tone, and no secure discussion area(s) for grassroots planning. The RPVN is strictly for activist planning and communications - out of sight of the rest of the world - rather than "check out my latest youtube video" and "what do you think of this/that/other article/blogpost/whatever.

Will mentioned being a database architect - we could do something like CiviCRM (http://www.civicrm.org) if he wanted to invest the time to manage the data, etc, and I could host this - I have experience adminning it as well, and I have nothing but good things to say about it. It may well solve the majority of our problems in terms of data organization, but the problem of actually gathering the contact info for the people still exists.

We've got an installation of Advokit already, and a calendar. Whatever other modules members want, can be installed on request, as needed.

 

[constituent]

do we have any verification of the folks over at RPVN? where do you go to lookup who owns a domain again? i'm sure they're fine, just wondering.

 

[mdh]

I've been on a few of the telephone conference calls. The sound quality, compared to what I set up, is terrible, and there's no way to know who's on the call, who wants to speak next, and no orderly fashion to "pass the talking stick", as it were. But my online conference room does have all of the above - plus the capacity to boot anyone who doesn't belong there.

There are some challenges with regards to 'passing of the stick', but nothing that can't be overcome. I'm not sure what conference calls you were on with poor quality, the quality on our setup is excellent. The main thing, though, is that it doesn't require special hardware or software to use. Does yours require special software? Many of us don't use windows, and many of us won't use closed-source unverifiable code on our computers...

I can do the same.

You run a Ron Paul specific IRC server? Cool, let's talk about linking up. We've got several servers linked in with ~100 users across all of them and maybe a dozen chatting at any given time.

This is exactly why the RPVN forum was created. All the other forums have a much more casual tone, and no secure discussion area(s) for grassroots planning. The RPVN is strictly for activist planning and communications - out of sight of the rest of the world - rather than "check out my latest youtube video" and "what do you think of this/that/other article/blogpost/whatever.

Yeah, I definitly see where you're coming from. But then you run into the problem of only reaching a small group of people with the ideas... It's a tough balancing act.

We've got an installation of Advokit already, and a calendar. Whatever other modules members want, can be installed on request, as needed.

I've found CiviCRM to be quite a bit friendlier than advokit. I actually tried playing with advokit, but for whatever reason, it wasn't working out real well (the important links for activists not showing up in their left nav bar). CiviCRM does everyone advokit can, automates it, and makes it tons easier to use with some sexy ajax and cms integration on the frontend. I also have gotten to know the developers of CiviCRM on IRC, and they are pretty bright folks and very willing to help with stuff; advokit doesn't have real-time support like that. It's something I really value, to be able to discuss issues in real-time with knowledgeable folks.


Well, anyways, I think we should do some collaborating. It sounds like we both have some awesome stuff going.

 

[ronpaulhawaii]

yea.. i agree..

control

command

we need more control, more command

must control the message

must command the message...

must crush dissenting voices...

more control..

must command...

i love sean hannity..

more control...

how will i ever stand out w/out a crowd.... how can i bully w/out backup???

must control..

more command.

Seems like you're the only one really fighting this, while most people seem to agree that it's a good idea. If you don't like it, don't get involved. Don't help. But don't damper our idea just because you don't like it. It's not about you. It's about what WE wanna do. And it's NOT going to be easy.

I know all the bitching people sent my way when I was talking about something major really sucked. But I didn't hear anybody complaining when 400 people heard Ron Paul got 5th place first on my radio station.

The more time you spend fighting something, the less time you have building something. We want to build something. If you don't like it, go build something else yourself. Good Luck!

djloti-

as stated by myself
I applaud your efforts, just think that you should consider calling yourself something other than Headquarters or anything that suggests.. "we're in charge here." because no one is in charge, nor should they be... that's the key to success here and in the future.

simple as that...
as for the post you are referencing, that was in response to a statement made, in very poor form, by another member participating in the thread...

the basic idea, i'm not fighting... go back and catch up before poppin' off.

p.s., i really like your station and thought it was a great idea from the start!

COMMAND
CONTROL
COMMUNICATION

gee... what ever might have given us that idea?

I see an inflammatory post, followed by a recap of the majority opinion, followed by (IMO) suck-up BS, followed by an inflammatory post.

p.s., i think constituent has valid concerns

the problem that this thread started off with was simply communication but now there's all these other organizational and command things being tacked on

Perhaps he does, unfortunatly, it seems he is the one tacking on, repeatedly, the inflammatory side of the words. ISTM, this aversion, among some, to any reference of, what amount to a military analogy, is so strong they fail to recognize that their concerns were addressed on the 2nd page.

From my read, no-one wants a dictatorial GR psuedo HQ. That is obvious, indeed was never the intention. It was just a valid suggestion to address a real problem, worded in military jargon.

To have continued spreading false fears through 14 pages is lame, IMO. A distraction from our purpose, and an insult to our intelligence and efforts.

http://ronpaulnetwork.info/forum

Just went there.. No need to set up anything when it already has been. Check it out.. I am bookmarking it.

Best Regards
Randy

This could work quite well, does anyone have any problems with integrating this site into the bigger picture being painted here?

I don't think we need any kind of big command and control structure. Not for a minute. Paulitics said it well. "I'm talking about ideas that will work on a national level that a few people can brainstorm together and present to the group and it can be voted on and implemented." This would only be a small fraction of the total things that were done and wouldn't in any way infringe on the freedom of Meetup groups, or individuals to do their own things. All we're talking about here are some tools to operate and possibly putting together a few strategic initiatives that will work on a national level.

Exactly, how many others are going to have to say something similar to people who don't seem to read entire threads?

Plus, have a major PAC where there's universal involvement and we vote on what we feel is the best product. I think that'd be a good thing to do.

I fully agree a PAC is a good thing.

EMILY's List was started by 25 women at someones house and now is huge, powerful and effective. Their contributions in the 2004 elections far surpasses any other PAC in the nation. How and Why are they so effective?

I haven't read this board, but someone asked me what it took to email 676 Meetup members. I was on this board for 11 hours asking for help due to the 25 email max at Meetup. I finally gave up and opened up 11 accounts of my own at Meetup, along with 11 new email addresses so I could do most of the work myself. I ended up with 12 volunteers in 11 hours.

Don't know what ya'll are talking about, but I hope this helps.

Yes, this board has certainly let me down and marginalized good efforts in the past. Again, we have to work with the sysyem we have and improve it constantly

bygone...

For the 19th time, NO ONE WANTS TO CENTRALIZE LEADERSHIP!!!

My point exactly.

I like the idea of using the existing under-utilized site for this. I like the idea of a committee of professionals to help us laymen understand various realities. The DIGG kine idea is good, also, for inclusivness.

Meanwhile, I'm gonna go start on some BurmaShave style signs, my mother is working on helping my missionary brother in Thailand understand RP's stances on Gay Marriage and Abortion, and our friends in Hawaii are being invited and going to GOP meetings, while keeping a weather eye on Flossie.

Man, I get ticked off at time wasters...

 

[CountryB4Party]

Rpvn

do we have any verification of the folks over at RPVN? where do you go to lookup who owns a domain again? i'm sure they're fine, just wondering.

Constituent and Others, RP Volunteer network was set up by Suzu, a RP supporter who is a forum specialist with experience in this area, at my request and that of another supporter, David Sadler, a RP supporter and a business person who has experience in campaigning and running for state office.

I am a 20-year tenured marketing professional who is vehemently opposed to conducting strategy discussions in public forums. I am also the author of the Saul Anuzis-RNC petition.

The three of us saw the need for a better communication tool to handle the business of getting RP elected, so we created it. We are not an 'organization', and we are only interested in providing a central point for effective communication, strategizing, and information dissemination. This is about efficiencies not control.

If anyone is interested, I can provide a resume or you can contact me through PM to set up a discussion for verification. I feel certain Suzu and David will do the same.

Yours in Liberty,
Dena Turner

 

[BLS]

Hey, I can build an Exchange email server and host it at home.
I would need to purchase a domain name (suggestions are open for discussion, but please let's not get carried away).

That way we could all have [email protected] email addresses.
It would be free to everyone.

 

[mdh]

Hey, I can build an Exchange email server and host it at home.
I would need to purchase a domain name (suggestions are open for discussion, but please let's not get carried away).

That way we could all have [email protected] email addresses.
It would be free to everyone.

Reinventing of the wheel... also, exchange sucks.
If someone wants to buy a domain for this, I can setup email accounts for folks on it. I use secure technologies (encryption for all authenticated procedures, etc.) Many of you know my professional background is in information security, so...

 

[goldenequity]

Open Chat Invitation

Ok.... How about this?

Suzu, can we set up a room at RPVN today, open invitation, to brainstorm real-time and get more done now?

If so, please post instructions.

Thanks,

randy

 

[danda]

danda: thanks for your get'r done post.... but I think we will come up with something better than a Yahoo group room/chat/page. .... we'll see....but stand-by and THANKS for your effort.

Standing by... ;-)

Just remember, the technology is not the hard part. Getting people to use it, is.

What problem are you guys trying to solve, exactly, that would not be solved if 1000+ people were subscribed (via email) to a single, simple, MODERATED, announcement list with no off-topic discussions? (Whatever, and wherever that list might be)

So far, I think the closest widespread mechanism we have, as a community, is the Daily Paul. And that still requires that one actively seek the news, rather than having it delivered to an inbox. ( RSS readers aside ).

I think it's sad that we can't even get behind a concept so simple as a grassroots announcements list.

But I wait to be awed by the new paradigm, whatever it turns out to be....

 

[Shink]

This is quite good evidence of the 'angry cats' thing. I don't know if it'd be meant for a wiki, a database that people could just add to, or what, but all that needs to happen is a better means for getting in touch with people. No orders, no heirarchy, just a list of meetup contacts, voter lists (like those who voted for Buchanan, etc.), etc. Maybe not, I don't know. I'm getting tired of reading the back and forth. I stomached about 11 pages of it. There's nothing anti-grassroots about a list of registered voters in my opinion.

I think an open source (preferably easy-as-hell to use...I'm no computer guy) spreadsheet listing voters and a column to mark if they've already been reached would be good.

 

[mdh]

Well, the general and open Ron Paul chat channel already exists (link in sig) if you'd like to connect and use that instead of making Suzu reinvent that wheel. It also has a quite large existing userbase of folks who would likely be interested in contributing as well.

 

[inibo]

OK, I have read through most of this thread and I appreciate the skepticism people might have about centralization and bureaucratization. They can be the death of spontaneity and nimbleness. That being said I am currently experiencing just the type of problem that seemed to spawn the suggestion for some type of centralized communication effort.

I am currently trying to get the word out about the Maryland Straw Poll coming up next week. I'm trying to work through MeetUp and have discovered that I can only send to three groups per day (I haven't hit the 25/day issue yet). The fact is I just found out about this straw poll on Friday and I am flailing around like an idiot try to make sure all 17 MeetUps in the Maryland/DC area know about it.

The most frustrating is maybe they all already know and I'm wasting my time duplicating what somebody has already done, maybe not. The simple fact is I JUST DON'T KNOW.

If there were some way that 1) notification of an important event like that could get distributed easily and that 2) everyone interested knew that the notification had been distributed.

So I see the need in principle for some sort of rapid coordination system, but I also appreciate that coordination can morph into control very easily.

Now if you'll excuse me I have three more MeetUps to notify.

 

[Paul4Prez]

Moderated list has its drawbacks

What problem are you guys trying to solve, exactly, that would not be solved if 1000+ people were subscribed (via email) to a single, simple, MODERATED, announcement list with no off-topic discussions? (Whatever, and wherever that list might be)

There's already a moderated email list on Yahoo Groups for Ron Paul with about a thousand people. I stopped using it because the moderation was too big of an impediment. Messages didn't get sent out in a timely fashion, or were rejected for no good reason.

In the 2004 election I was on a similarly sized Yahoo Group without moderation, and it worked great.

 

[Devil_rules_in_extremes]

OK, I have read through most of this thread and I appreciate the skepticism people might have about centralization and bureaucratization. They can be the death of spontaneity and nimbleness. That being said I am currently experiencing just the type of problem that seemed to spawn the suggestion for some type of centralized communication effort.

I am currently trying to get the word out about the Maryland Straw Poll coming up next week. I'm trying to work through MeetUp and have discovered that I can only send to three groups per day (I haven't hit the 25/day issue yet). The fact is I just found out about this straw poll on Friday and I am flailing around like an idiot try to make sure all 17 MeetUps in the Maryland/DC area know about it.

The most frustrating is maybe they all already know and I'm wasting my time duplicating what somebody has already done, maybe not. The simple fact is I JUST DON'T KNOW.

If there were some way that 1) notification of an important event like that could get distributed easily and that 2) everyone interested knew that the notification had been distributed.

So I see the need in principle for some sort of rapid coordination system, but I also appreciate that coordination can morph into control very easily.

Now if you'll excuse me I have three more MeetUps to notify.

Communication and Coordination is definately key... But Bureaucratization retards that process though...

We need to figure out a way to not make a huge centralized burecratic effort, yet be able to communicate with maximum efficiency...

 

[LibertyEagle]

There's already a moderated email list on Yahoo Groups for Ron Paul with about a thousand people. I stopped using it because the moderation was too big of an impediment. Messages didn't get sent out in a timely fashion, or were rejected for no good reason.

In the 2004 election I was on a similarly sized Yahoo Group without moderation, and it worked great.

If we had a email list with just the Meetup Organizers, that would probably do the trick. If we need other more targeted lists later, we can add them.