Elizabeth Warren: Resistance is Futile to the Collective

[AuH20]

This woman scares me. I agree with the underlying premise of a social contract in theory, but this particular viewpoint is insane.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/eli...body-in-this-country-who-got-rich-on-his-own/

“I hear all this, you know, ‘Well, this is class warfare, this is whatever. No. There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own — nobody.

“You built a factory out there? Good for you. But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police-forces and fire-forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn’t have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory — and hire someone to protect against this — because of the work the rest of us did.

“Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea. God bless — keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is, you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.”

 

[gls]

Yeah, she is terrible, even for a Democrat. Hopefully she say something stupid about a Boston sports team that will destroy her chances.

 

[Graeme]

I've always wondered about the "public good" point.

But she's right, to a degree. We did use the roads and the police and the fire department. And I'd be willing to pay for those to be managed at NEAR A LOCAL LEVEL AS POSSIBLE.

But we also are paying for the regulation that makes it harder to succeed. We're paying for the people who don't want to work to sit on their butts instead of working in my factor, which means we're paying them NOT to buy my product. We're paying for bridges to nowhere, multiple wars fought in my name, executions, a war on drugs, terror and many other things at the high federal level.

So, yes. Roads, police, fire. All things I think most reasonable supporters of liberty would be willing to pay for ON THE LOCAL LEVEL. Especially if the police only protected people from force or fraud and that's it.

But the other part of that isn't really in the public good or interest. I don't think I can justify my money being used to murder brown people.

 

[wannaberocker]

This is something i expect from Liz Warren. This woman is a degree left of socialist.

 

[AuH20]

This is something i expect from Liz Warren. This woman is a degree left of socialist.

She sounds like a mobster lecturing us on the benefits of "protection fees". It's relatively the same concept. I have no problem with taking a particular, defined role in a community, which entail certain sacrifices, but we've gone far above and beyond that reasonable contract, in that this citizen-government relationship has become incredibly unbalanced and abusive.

 

[sailingaway]

We have a social contract, it is called the Constitution. There is a process for amendment, and she is free to follow it.

 

[Pericles]

We have a social contract, it is called the Constitution. There is a process for amendment, and she is free to follow it.

+rep

 

[trey4sports]

ok, it's now clear. Keep this lady out of Congress.

 

[Sentient Void]

So... Because you were taxed all your life to pay for these services which you may or may not have wanted, now that some of those services may or may not have provided some financial return you have volunteered for perpetual tax slavery. Yeah, that makes sense.

And she implies the factory owner doesn't pay for any of the things she mentions. It's the people who paid for them!

Sad thing is, I imagine she will probably defeat Scott Brown. Because Scott Brown ended up just being a liberal RINO, and the liberal/democrat base is energized against Scott Brown and those who have elected him. They won't stay home this time.

I live in MA, I'm not looking forward to having her as my Senator.

 

[reillym]

We have a social contract, it is called the Constitution. There is a process for amendment, and she is free to follow it.

yeah, and the Constitution says the government can collect taxes. Last time I checked at least...

 

[reillym]

I've always wondered about the "public good" point.

But she's right, to a degree. We did use the roads and the police and the fire department. And I'd be willing to pay for those to be managed at NEAR A LOCAL LEVEL AS POSSIBLE.

But we also are paying for the regulation that makes it harder to succeed. We're paying for the people who don't want to work to sit on their butts instead of working in my factor, which means we're paying them NOT to buy my product. We're paying for bridges to nowhere, multiple wars fought in my name, executions, a war on drugs, terror and many other things at the high federal level.

So, yes. Roads, police, fire. All things I think most reasonable supporters of liberty would be willing to pay for ON THE LOCAL LEVEL. Especially if the police only protected people from force or fraud and that's it.

But the other part of that isn't really in the public good or interest. I don't think I can justify my money being used to murder brown people.

What other part is there? She isn't defending the war, please reread.

Before that, she mentions the three things that are causing our debt problem: Bush tax cuts, bush medicare part d, and two wars. We must eliminate all three. Common sense says, if those got us in, to get out, we must get rid of them. Pretty simple.

She's right, completely. Not just to a degree.

 

[Graeme]

What other part is there? She isn't defending the war, please reread.

Before that, she mentions the three things that are causing our debt problem: Bush tax cuts, bush medicare part d, and two wars. We must eliminate all three. Common sense says, if those got us in, to get out, we must get rid of them. Pretty simple.

She's right, completely. Not just to a degree.

The "you MUST pay it forward to the next man" part is socialism.

Sorry, but it is. I'm the type who WOULD pay it forward, but saying I must? Or they'll come and put me in a cage?

I disagree with that force.

 

[reillym]

I love how all of you think you all made it completely on your own. Well, guess what. I paid for your education, the roads your car goes on, the safety you take for granted, etc etc. You owe debt to society, so stop trying to mooch off the system. Her argument was for the tax cuts for the rich, which have FAILED MISERABLY. 70% of american agrees. Rich people agree. Corporatist republicans? Not so much.

 

[reillym]

The "you MUST pay it forward to the next man" part is socialism.

Sorry, but it is. I'm the type who WOULD pay it forward, but saying I must? Or they'll come and put me in a cage?

I disagree with that force.

Then how the fuck does society exist at all? Sorry, but the very basic things this country has costs lots of money. If everyone had a CHOICE, how many would? Voluntary taxes do not exist in any country. Why? Because they don't work.

Yes, it is socialism. Too bad. There is no pure capitalist society and never will be.

You grew up depending on others. Fact. You used up tax money. You wouldn't be where you are without it. You owe a *SMALL* part of your success to society.

 

[AuH20]

I love how all of you think you all made it completely on your own. Well, guess what. I paid for your education, the roads your car goes on, the safety you take for granted, etc etc. You owe debt to society, so stop trying to mooch off the system. Her argument was for the tax cuts for the rich, which have FAILED MISERABLY. 70% of american agrees. Rich people agree. Corporatist republicans? Not so much.

No one is discounting that community is integral towards personal development and success, but the government has morphed into a criminal enterprise. I personally say "NO" to extortion methods.

 

[Graeme]

Society existed LONG before this government started taxing people and groping them in airports. Society will exist after this bloated beast of a government collapses and explodes under its own weight.

Separate government from society. You don't NEED a big government to "run society." And these basic things? I'm willing to pay for these basic things at a local level, where I have control of the politicians. I'm willing to pay schools locally. I'm willing to pay local taxes for roads, local taxes that I have a referendum under.

This country operated just fine for the first half of its existence with low taxes.

 

[klamath]

Yeaw I like how the factory owner never pad for anything and it was always somebody else that paid for it. That factory owner paid just as much as anyone else if not more for that infrastructure.
Oh and I see we have the refugee from the Democratic Underground on here defending her.

 

[Kords21]

That mauarding band she talks about sounds like the gov't to me.

 

[TheNcredibleEgg]

Someone posted this on another site. I thought it was a very simply explanation of the flaw in her argument.

Roads, police, national defense - all things the wealthy are in favor of funding.
Has a liberal ever argued without using a strawman lie?

 

[wannaberocker]

Well i was born in a govt hospital. SO i guess according to Liz Warren , the govt owns me.

See old Liz's argument is that each and every citizen is in debt to govt. YOu made a factory? well the govt built the road. You dont have a mob at your factory door ? well thats because govt is there to protect you. In her mind anything and everything is thanks to the govt, in other words govt is the God. And "the govt gives and the govt takes it away" and that to Lizzy is Fair because it all belongs to govt anyways.


Which is why i wonder when will liz go and say "well person XYZ you were born in a hospital owned by the govt and without it you might not be here" So now the govt owns you.