Earn A Degree In Liberty (Univ of IL - Spgfld)

Liberty now has a Liberty Cartel and to gain admission you need a worthless degree from the Liberty Students program?
 
Liberty Studies Reality

Live_Free_Or_Die said:
Liberty now has a Liberty Cartel and to gain admission you need a worthless degree from the Liberty Students program?
Click to expand...

This does not reflect any research on this topic. As previously discussed, the program is not perceived as "worthless" by pro-liberty scholars, leaders, and employers. And there is no authoritarian "cartel" -- the degree is student-designed...
 
Last edited:
LibertyStudies said:
This does not reflect any research on this topic. As previously discussed, the program is not perceived as "worthless" by pro-liberty scholars, leaders, and employers. And there is no authoritarian "cartel" -- the degree is student-designed...
Click to expand...

It is by this pro liberty scholar, leader, and employer.
 
LibertyStudies said:
The degree program is student-designed, which is something you would have known if you would have done even the slightest bit of research on this topic.

1. It can include 12 credits designed by the student (for example, I am studying under Jan Narveson for 4 credits, and working professionally for another 4)
2. The thesis/project is designed by the student (another 4 credits)
3. The courses themselves are selected by the student (for example, only 2 of my classes are from the list of suggested Liberty Studies classes - and only because I chose them - and the rest of the classes were all my choice)

This is NOT a typical, authoritarian, top-down, a.k.a. upside-down degree program. Stop assuming that all of academia runs that way. There is a great deal of academic liberty in this specific program, which negates your concern about academic authoritarianism completely. Frankly, this is simply not something you would not ranting about if you had done even the slightest bit of research on this topic.

More importantly, the point you chided remains valid: if people who value liberty were to disengage from Liberty Studies, the academic field could be taken over by those who are hostile to liberty. This is not something to scoff at. This is reality. If everyone involved in Liberty Studies felt the way you did and exited the academic field, it would become a self-fulfilling prophecy that would, indeed, do unimaginable damage to liberty.

You need to take a step back and actually research this topic before faulting me for filleting your opinion.

This Liberty Studies program is the study OF liberty, BY liberty, FOR liberty, and it is here to stay. And the destiny of the academic field is in the hands of those who pursue it.
Click to expand...
Such irrelevancies. Whether it's student-designed doesn't do all that much about the things that concern me about degrees like this. The economics degree at my school was set up in a very similar way, with X number of credits chosen from a list of topics chosen by the student, with projects designed by the student. The trouble you run into is when the list of classes are all from the same Keynesian model, and all the advisers for your projects are Keynesians themselves. I'm sure you can see how even with the guise of freedom, you're really more free educating yourself. It's not that I think you've made a bad career choice. I'm very happy for you that you take such pride in your degree. It's just that little of what you say reassures anything I've mentioned, and I hope for the sake of legitimacy of future public debates, a liberty degree never becomes something widespread.

That you vaguely go after everyone who holds a different view than you for supposedly not "researching" about liberty degrees is a bit of a farce. You're not so much "filleting" opinions, but rather misrepresenting them because of some odd oversensitivity towards this degree. That's more of what I was critical of you for.

Regarding the point you assert as valid: The reality of the situation (as I brought up in my previous post) is that academic fields get corrupted by misguided degree-holders independent of how many honest degree-holders there are. Just as there are many individuals who hold economics degrees that would elaborate against the Obama administration's plans, those people are cast aside and ignored for the sake of cherrypicking anyone who agrees as evidence. The honesty of some degree holders has no bearing on the dishonesty of others. So while your point indeed is valid, the assertion that so long as "pro-liberty" people (which again, is a vague description based on what I assume to be a foolhardy belief that those concerned with liberty homogeneously come to the same conclusions) participate in this degree, that this imagined integrity you believe it to have will be untarnished is pure fantasy.
 
Last edited:
If you want to learn, buy an encyclopaedia and a chemistry set. It'll save you time and money.
 
Liberty Studies in Academia

james1906 said:
If you want to learn, buy an encyclopaedia and a chemistry set. It'll save you time and money.
Click to expand...

And that reclusive strategy would keep people out of the fight for liberty in academia. Now THAT is worthless.
 
Last edited:
Liberty Studies

Golding said:
Such irrelevancies. Whether it's student-designed doesn't do all that much about the things that concern me about degrees like this. The economics degree at my school was set up in a very similar way, with X number of credits chosen from a list of topics chosen by the student, with projects designed by the student. The trouble you run into is when the list of classes are all from the same Keynesian model, and all the advisers for your projects are Keynesians themselves. I'm sure you can see how even with the guise of freedom, you're really more free educating yourself. It's not that I think you've made a bad career choice. I'm very happy for you that you take such pride in your degree. It's just that little of what you say reassures anything I've mentioned, and I hope for the sake of legitimacy of future public debates, a liberty degree never becomes something widespread.

That you vaguely go after everyone who holds a different view than you for supposedly not "researching" about liberty degrees is a bit of a farce. You're not so much "filleting" opinions, but rather misrepresenting them because of some odd oversensitivity towards this degree. That's more of what I was critical of you for.

Regarding the point you assert as valid: The reality of the situation (as I brought up in my previous post) is that academic fields get corrupted by misguided degree-holders independent of how many honest degree-holders there are. Just as there are many individuals who hold economics degrees that would elaborate against the Obama administration's plans, those people are cast aside and ignored for the sake of cherrypicking anyone who agrees as evidence. The honesty of some degree holders has no bearing on the dishonesty of others. So while your point indeed is valid, the assertion that so long as "pro-liberty" people (which again, is a vague description based on what I assume to be a foolhardy belief that those concerned with liberty homogeneously come to the same conclusions) participate in this degree, that this imagined integrity you believe it to have will be untarnished is pure fantasy.
Click to expand...

Do you read anything I type? LOL. Again, you need to take a step back and actually research this topic.

On your first paragraph, I don't think reminiscing helps. This is not your economics program. Student-designed, student-titled graduate programs are extremely rare. There are only 11 master's programs like this, and only 4 Ph.D. programs like this. I would know, because I spent hundreds of hours finding and researching these programs, and nobody else has taken the time to do so. You can't find even find the list I have anywhere in print or online yet. These extremely rare programs are gems of academic liberty, and this one has the 2nd-highest level of academic liberty of all the programs. This is something to be celebrated! And yet you're trying to "debate" me about something that is not really up for debate. This is not your economics program. Period.

On your second paragraph, I am responding to those I do not agree with, and allowing the free market of ideas to do its work. :cool: While I appreciate the suggestion, I didn't really fillet all other opinions - only yours, because you constructed a very scary scenario in which we were asked to "imagine the damage" this liberty studies program can do. But then Ron Paul called me and up and said, "Daniel, that is ridiculous. You must fillet that opinion! It is just as important to learn for liberty as it is to campaign for liberty!" And I said, "Yes, Doctor, Senator, buddy, I will take care of it." So as you can understand, with Ron Paul on my side and all, not to mention all the Obama oil in its gills, I really had to fry that fish -- for liberty and for health.

On your last paragraph, thank you (?) for admitting that my point is valid... but should I really thank someone who immediately thereafter constructs a "straw man" fallacy by wrongly (and openly, in fact) assuming that by pro-liberty I am referring to a homogeneous collective. You really know how to insult an individualist in language that only individualists can understand as insulting. Thanks, indeed...

May I humbly recommend that you use your energies to debate against programs like this instead:

http://marxiststudies.org/

You can sit back and whimsically criticize all you want at your own leisure, but if you don't change your point of view, it is your loss. I can't go on debating people who don't see the big picture, the vision, the fight. Liberty is undervalued, understudied, underdeveloped, and under attack. It is therefore an honor to be involved in the academic movement for liberty, and it is a cause I am convinced is worthy of much of my life's work.

But back to my bitterly "valid" (your words) point... far from taking a step back, I think we need to take a step forward and start another opportunity like this. Get ready to criticize some more, because if I have my way, the individualized master's degree program at GMU will start a Humane Studies program, and HumaneStudies.Org will launch it. Get over it in advance, please, so I don't have to waste my time defending it against your monotonous criticism in another forum.

http://mais.gmu.edu/

While I cannot honestly say I "respect" your uninformed opinion, I do respect that you may advance liberty in our lifetime in an alternative way. Cordially, I appreciate your tenacity, which - despite your initial post which frankly we both know was mostly a creative writing experiment - has proven that you are at least passionate and may be of some use to liberty.
 
Last edited:
Scuba Diving?

specsaregood said:
but did they mean it? How about those that actually go to college to drink, party and get laid? Not to learn things or get a job? I bet that group outnumbers the other 2 groups. :)

but hey, what do i know? I only have a college degree in scuba diving.
Click to expand...

lol
 
LibertyStudies said:
lol
Click to expand...

Are you suggesting the facts I have owned successful businesses, served in the Marine Corps in the first Gulf War, presented enough constitutional information on this forum to conduct my own academic course, and have personally exercised civil disobedience, all on a crappy public high school indoctrination, that I am not a qualified pro liberty scholar, leader, or employer? Is there some Liberty Cartel monopoly I am not aware of?
 
Live_Free_Or_Die said:
Are you suggesting the facts I have owned successful businesses, served in the Marine Corps in the first Gulf War, presented enough constitutional information on this forum to conduct my own academic course, and have personally exercised civil disobedience, all on a crappy public high school indoctrination, that I am not a qualified pro liberty scholar, leader, or employer? Is there some Liberty Cartel monopoly I am not aware of?
Click to expand...

lol
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

PAF
Why Do We Live in a Two-Faced World?
Replies
1
Views
182
TheTexan
TheTexan
PAF
The CIA, Mossad, and Epstein: Unraveling the Intelligence Ties of the Maxwell Family
Replies
0
Views
124
PAF
PAF
J
Release the JFK Jr. Files! JFK Jr. Published Article Questioning Father's Death Before Plane Went Down, NTBS Report Omitted Key Tower Contact
Replies
2
Views
93
James_Madison_Lives
J
FineSpeech
The Strange Story of Peter Thiel
Replies
5
Views
2K
FineSpeech
FineSpeech
PAF
“Incitement” Isn’t a Real Crime
Replies
4
Views
197
Occam's Banana
Occam's Banana
Back
Top